OM shopping ...

[astroboy]

Okay, I live in the mandolin (and mandolin family) desert of Northern Ohio ... but after about 6 months of mandolin playing, I've continuously been thinking about trying an Octave Mandolin.

Question: Are there particular areas of the country that would afford a better trial/shopping opportunity than simply driving to Elderly Instruments in Lansing Michigan, and seeing what they have in stock? I ask because I occasionally get to travel to major US cities on business.

The alternative seems to be buying an OM online with a good return policy.

Thanks for any thoughts ...

[JEStanek]

The Trinity college octave mandolins are a very good and economical place to start your OM journey. Eventually you may want to change out the bridge but when well set up, they perform pretty well. The next step up would be a Gypsy or Mid Missouri/Big Muddy OM (not sure if Big Muddy makes them...). Elderly would be a good place to visit or talk to about these instruments.

Jamie

[steve V. johnson]

There are not any really more OM-centric geographic areas than any others, as far as I know, tho there are more OM-centric cultures.

Some of us interested in OMs & zouks recently had a gathering in New Jersey, at least in part as a response to 'We can't find these things anywhere.' A number of us own and play a pretty wide variety of 'em, so we met so that we could see a variety and establish some context of what is out there.

Off-the-shelf choices are pretty limited and most of the good stuff (IMO) is hand-made, either standard models by small luthiers or custom commissions.

As far as I know, Irish traditional, Scottish traditional and English traditional musics probably employ the most modern OMs. Greek, Turkish and Balkan cultures might be second (chime in and correct me here, folks!!!). I think that American musics are integrating OMs more and more, but I wouldn't suggest that you go to bluegrass or oldtime jams looking for 'em. ... Tho you
-might- find 'em there.

I've never been up there, but I've heard that the Cleveland Irish Festival is a very good'n, and that suggests that there are a fair number of Irish players, and thus Irish sessions, there in Cleveland.
If you're near one of the corners of northern Ohio, the principal holds: find the players who use 'em and that's your best shot at seeing, meeting, hearing, and playing some OMs/zouks. I did find some Weber OMs at Wildwood Music in Coshocton, Ohio, some years back.

Entry-level instruments -- the Trinity College are the most prominent of 'em, and seem to have the good quality control at that level. Folks here have gotten good results from component upgrades, bridge, nut and tailpiece, and sometimes pickups.Other good stuff starts at about double the TC price. There are nice opportunities in used instruments for under $1k, but it takes patience and it's best done once some criteria are established. (Homework... echh. :-) )

Aside from sessions, festivals are a good chance of finding folks playing them. Besides the Cleveland, there's a nice Irish festival in Dublin, Ohio. And if you're farther east, some good stuff going on in Pittsburgh and Buffalo.

For more info on Irish session activity, have a look at thesession.org and their sessions listings.

By hanging out here and scanning the archives, you can find something about almost every variety of OM/zouk out there, and folks are pretty generous about sharing their experiences with 'em. There are a bunch of great luthiers here, too, who make these things and they are often very generous with their time and knowlege.

I hope this helps.

stv

[Keith Erickson]

There are not any really more OM-centric geographic areas than any others, as far as I know, tho there are more OM-centric cultures.....

stv

Steve,

If I may add, I had a chance to watch a show on HD TV last night about medeval folk music being played at castles in the Czech Republic. I believe they showed Richie Blackmore playing an OM with an act.

Sorry to hi jack the thread.

Thanks,

Keith

[Steve-o]

Astroboy,
I'd say living in northern Ohio, you are well positioned for a day trip to Elderly. I just glanced at their OM stock and they have Trinity College, Johnson, Petersen, and Weber (expected to arrive 12/28) instruments in stock. It's rare to have that many OMs to compare within a reasonable drive from home. If you time it right, you might even catch some good entertainment, not to mention sampling mandolins and guitars. C'mon up to Michigan!

[Steve L]

Think about what Steve-O is saying...it's rare to see four of them in a major music store. The only other place likely to have several I can think of is Hobgoblin USA in Minnesota.

[astroboy]

Good points all, and thank you. I admit that I haven't been watching the Elderly stock closely enough to see that they are expecting the Weber Sage later this month. And, I missed the summer local Irish festivals due to prior commitments this year, but I darn well have blocked them out for next year! :grin:

I'm not sure I'll be able to restrain the O-MAS that long (next summer), so once the holidays are over, a drive to Elderly during a week of unseasonably mild weather (hopefully) is in the cards. Here in Ohio, I'm sure I'll hear more than once from friends/relatives: "You drove to Michigan in January? Are you nuts?" -- well, perhaps. :) Though, that attitude isn't really supported by the milder winters we've been seeing over the last 15 years or so.

I've been reading all the great reviews of the Petersens and the entry level TCs, but I gotta say that it's the darker old-time/antique finished Webers like this:

http://www.macnichol.com/product/Bitterroot_A_Octave.html

... that have me jonesing. Your input has made it clear that figuring out whether the 20-23" scale works for me, regardless of luthier, is well worth even the winter drive. Thanks for the tips and the thoughts, everyone.

[mandomanmike]

can I add a further question to the discussion. anyone know how the Celtic Stars sold on ebay compares to a Johnson OM 450? quality of construction, sound, playability, etc.

I see that they have a pickup and eq for plugging in and are about the same price as the acoustic only Johnson

all opinions welcome!

[Mace]

As a thought, consider the scale length. I know the Weber can be special ordered with a shorter scale length.

[steve V. johnson]

If you're within a drive of Coshocton, OH, you might give a call to Wild Wood Music there and see what they have. They used to keep some Weber OMs (etc.) in stock...

stv

[astroboy]

As a thought, consider the scale length. I know the Weber can be special ordered with a shorter scale length.

Yup, another reason the linked to OM is appealing -- the 20" scale ... I've noodled with a guitar enough that I know I don't appreciate scale lengths in that range once the instrument body gets bulky enough that it's difficult to get one's arm around. Somewhere around 58 cm (~23.8") is the end of my comfort zone.

My favorite thing about a mando (other than the clarity of its tuning in 5ths) is that I don't feel I'm in a wrestling match with the thing. :)

Thanks again for the input.

[otterly2k]

Richard -
Elderly is a cool place, and well worth a pilgrimage. AND I suggest that you call ahead to confirm what is in stock. The one time I was close enough to go, I was disappointed to find that they didn't have everything in stock that their website claimed. In particular, there were no Petersens at that time, and that was what I was most interested in.

It's still a WAY cool place... I played many fine mandos and guitars and enjoyed it thoroughly.

re: OM's... I'll echo what others have said. TC's are solid starters.
I haven't tried Petersens or Gypsys directly, but have heard/read good things about them from people whose judgement I have reason to trust. I have played several Webers and I have to say that they're not my cup of tea... you'll have to try for yourself to see what you think. To me, once you're in that category of spending, there are other instruments I like better.

If you have any interest at all in building, you might consider Don Kawalek's building workshop. His OM design is quite good and the workshop is a blast. For the cost of one of these nicer OM's (or less), you can build your own. It's a great feeling to play something you've built yourself. I like mine, and the improvements to the design that Don has made since I did his workshop seem to have paid off. I played one recently that was built with the new design and woods, and it played and sounded great.

good luck on your quest.

[capt_blood]

There's a lot of great advice on this thread. AND the issue of OM scale is an evergreen thread in the CBOM Message Board.

The Weber Sage scale length is 23.5". Looking at the Elderly stock, they appear to have instrument scale lengths from 20.25" to 26.5" (which is listed as a bouzouki). I recommend that you take a good guitar capo with you and see whether you can play fiddle tunes on that TC bouzouki with a capo at the second or third fret. In that sense, you can convert a bouzouki to an octave mandolin.

The Sage has a maple back and sides, and not everyone likes that kind of sound in an OM. But you can expect an entry-level OM to have either maple or mahogany back and sides. Pick the sound you like best. There are sound clips out there, but two instruments with identical specs can sound very different.

Ideally, a "starter instrument" gets you playing and makes you want to keep playing for at least a year, by which time you'll know what you really want and will have saved up the coin to buy it.

Someone mentioned Mid-Missouri (Big Muddy) OMs, but the Big Muddy website does not include Octave Mandolins. Their previous incarnation, Mid-Missouri Mandolin, made two OMs with 22" scale lengths, the M-70 (maple back and sides) and the M-80 (morado back and sides). But I would be surprised if they made more than 100 of these total. They were essentially scaled up versions of the M-15 and M-16 mandolas, which Big Muddy shows on their website. You can always send them an e-mail to see if Mike Dulak will make you an OM and at what price. Morado is a rosewood, more balanced than East Indian Rosewood, but not as wonderful a tonewood as Brazilian rosewood. Used M-70s and M-80s SHOULD go for about $500 and $600 respectively, but they're scarce and this drives up their prices. I bought an M-80 as my starter OM, but then, no one thought they were scarce when I bought mine.

[astroboy]

This thread had more life than I thought. :) Thanks everyone, for the great feedback/ideas.