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KATMAN
Dec-08-2009, 2:54pm
Just a thought. I tune my guitars a half step down to match my singing voice.Has anyone done this with a mandolin? Just wondering here.

mandroid
Dec-08-2009, 3:13pm
that's F# C# G# D# .. why not ..Though, unless you are a solo act, you have to transpose in your head ..
and not watch another player's hands without thinking 'I have to play a different chord because I see the other guy / gal is playing in G'. compensate for thee detuning .. G#/Ab
you can drop a whole step to FCGD, too ..


I have to do something similar though It's because I pick up the mandola , so have to play D mandolin chord form in order to have G chord come out.

If you play with others it may be more straight forward to call out the key your voice range works best in, and go with standard tuning on your instrument.

Mandolin Mick
Dec-08-2009, 3:50pm
Well, I do when I play My Last Days on Earth by Bill Monroe; sort of.

The tuning is:G#G#/C#C#/G#B/C#E

But, I don't know anybody who plays a 1/2 tone down like some guitarists. The purpose of that is to make the guitar resonate more or to make it easier to sing along. I don't see that as an issue in Bluegrass, anyway.

KATMAN
Dec-08-2009, 7:20pm
When I play with others,I'll clamp on a capo on the 1st fret so I'll be in tune. I guess you clamp on a capo on a mandolin.:))

mandocrucian
Dec-08-2009, 8:16pm
I tune my guitars a half step down to match my singing voice.Has anyone done this with a mandolin?

The 1/2 step down tuned guitar is really not that unusual, at least among the electric players. Hendrix and SRV were two examples. But, it was their "show", and the bass players tuned down similarly as well.

Yank Rachell tuned his mando down a m3rd to E.

If you were playing in a lot of flat keys with horn players (though I don't know how you'd be able to cut through with an acoustic) getting comfortable with tuning to F-C-G-D could make life easier.
BTW, a lot of Cajun fiddlers tune to F so that they can play with C-tuned accordions using the open strings as if fingered it in D. Mike Doucet of Beausoleil does this (he's probably got a second fiddle tuned standard), and I think he's done the same with his mando (F4).

In the past, if I got stranded at a jam/party where the playing level was fairly 'basic', I would often retune down a 1/2 step to make it more interesting for myself and spend some time practicing in Db, Ab, Gb etc. fingerings (rather than D, A, G...). Later on, I started to take the LH-mando along and if things turned out to be a slow jam, that's the mando case that would get opened. (Or take some other intrument that I'm not that proficient on).

Some mandolins may actually sound better tuned higher, or lower, than standard. If you've got one of those, you should let the mando choose the tuning that suits it best sonically.

NH

Keith Erickson
Dec-08-2009, 8:48pm
Mostly on guitar but hardly on the mandolin.

I wanted to play along on my mandolin to "Patience" by Gun's and Roses. That is a ½ step down.

Pete Martin
Dec-08-2009, 11:49pm
Not on mandolin, but I have played around with mandola tuned up 1/2, whole 1 1/2 steps to get a horn like "transposing" instrument. Works well sometimes, noit so well on others.

s11141827
Jan-24-2024, 9:40pm
I use ultra-light strings on my Mandolin so I could tune it up a perfect Fourth to CGDA like a Soprano Mandolin (an Octave above a Mandola).

Minorkey
Jan-25-2024, 3:35am
Well when mine was set up I discovered it was tuned FCBD. A whole step down, which was weird.

DHopkins
Jan-25-2024, 10:45pm
I've heard that the Isaacs gospel/country group tunes to A=400 instead of 440 and they put out some of the best music around. Their harmonies are outstanding.

tmsweeney
Jan-26-2024, 2:54am
well that's the magic of the circle of fifths, move all points in the same distance in the same directions and viola' - everything works.

Caleb
Jan-26-2024, 10:29am
Old thread and the OP hasn't been here since 2010, but I'll contribute.

I have kept my mandolin tuned down a half step quite a bit, and I've also messed around with putting it in 432Hz down from 440Hz. I call this the "conspiracy tuning" since there are all kinds of strange ideas surrounding it. Serious rabbit hole territory, lots online about it. I'm agnostic on all that stuff but just wanted to try that tuning out of curiosity and it ended up being great.

I play solo almost all the time so it doesn't matter what tuning I'm in.

I keep my guitar tuned down a whole step all the time (sometimes a step and a half, and sometimes in 432Hz from there). Guitars just sound better tuned down: they can "breathe" and you get all those lower, cello-like subtleties that you just can't achieve in standard tuning. I don't think acoustic guitars in particular sound good in standard but that's just me. After using lower tunings exclusively for over 20 years now I can't enjoy standard anymore. YMMV.

I'll say this because most people here probably play guitar: when it comes to guitar, if you mostly play alone, you really owe it to yourself to try out some lower tunings. It opens up a whole new world, especially if you're a singer. I say "lower tunings" but not necessarily "altered tunings," those are a whole other world that I'm not very familiar with. I've used DADGAD some, but in a few minutes everything I'm playing ends up sounding like the same droning tune. It's beautiful but I'm just not skilled in it and it would take me time I don't have to get up to speed. YMMV.

musicofanatic
Jan-26-2024, 12:28pm
Old thread and the OP hasn't been here since 2010, but I'll contribute.

I have kept my mandolin tuned down a half step quite a bit, and I've also messed around with putting it in 432Hz down from 440Hz. I call this the "conspiracy tuning" since there are all kinds of strange ideas surrounding it. Serious rabbit hole territory, lots online about it. I'm agnostic on all that stuff but just wanted to try that tuning out of curiosity and it ended up being great.

There is a great bluegrass record name of the 432 Sessions, Harry Clark on mandolin

Mark Gunter
Jan-26-2024, 2:54pm
I play alone a great deal, but also jam with others and gig with others. Really prefer to keep my instruments in Standard tunings at 440 hz. That said, I regularly tune a mandolin down a half step when rehearsing or gigging with my son, because he’s one who keeps his guitar tuned that way. I find it a bit too much to find my way in standard tuning when he capoes; I can usually transpose on the fly when a guitarist capoes, but to double transpose, accounting for both a capo and a half-step flat, gives me headaches and I find myself in the weeds too often.

I do enjoy playing in open D on guitar, but it’s a pain tuning back and forth. I enjoy it enough that, when I had a stable of axes, I kept one in open D (never DADGAD, just open D). That’s no longer the case, having only one guitar now, Standard tuning it is.

tmsweeney
Jan-26-2024, 4:07pm
I notice that about some old recordings, the A is either just above or below 440, so its difficult to play along with

if you learn the guitar capo keys it helps, 2nd fret is Amaj and 4rth fret is Emaj (I think) 7th is Bmaj ?

C D Em F G are usually no capo also A minor an D minor? Bm might be the 4th as well

I almost never capo even on octaves cellos and dolas

Mark Gunter
Jan-28-2024, 9:14am
I don’t think of static “capo keys” on a guitar, maybe that’s a Bluegrass thing? Because they use the G chord shape as their reference?

When a guitarist capoes, the key depends on which chord form represents the key. Example: Capo 2

G shape = A
D shape = E
C shape = D
Am shape = Bm
etc.

As a long time guitar player I can see what one is doing with the capo and usually stay straight transposing in my head, but when they’re tuned down 1/2 step and play with the capo I’m easily lost, it requires a double layer of transposition that my brain and muscle memory can’t handle.

Billy Packard
Jan-29-2024, 2:54am
Proper Mandolins are built to tolerances that are most optimal to concert pitch.

I have observed notable drops in efficiency and tone with lowering the concert pitch.


Billy

Daniel Nestlerode
Jan-29-2024, 3:22am
Like other folks here who play mandola as well, I've experimented more with tunings on that than on the mandolin. For a while I did the Yank Rachel thing and tuned my Weber (17" scale length) to E B F# C# using octave mandolin strings. Its cool to have an E on the bottom... a bit more "guitaristic". It's an excellent tuning to use if you're playing solo and accompanying your voice.

I have not altered tuning on my proper (8 string acoustic) mandolins, but I can see the utility. Were I gigging with a band that tunes down, I would without hesitation drop a half step. The reason I haven't is that I can sing well in the usual keys and I don't use those mandolins when I play with horn players.

About that capo idea...
I have been studying Jazz lately, playing one or the other of my 5 string electrics. (And there are couple of Bb horn players in class.) There I'm running into fingering issues with tunes like Kenny Burrell's "Midnight Blue" and Joe Henderson's "Recordame".

"Midnight Blue" is in Fm and the Ab on the G string is central to the head. There's also a hammer-on and double pull-of from the Bb to the B natural and back down to the Ab, which on a 0.042" string is difficult when your index finger needs to stay on the Ab to receive the pull-off. So... Capo! Now I can do the Bb-B-Bb-Ab in 16th notes as Burrell intended on the guitar using my index and ring fingers. Though my left hand pushes on the capo a bit.

I'm going to drop a size on the C (0.052) and G (0.042) strings to 0.050 and 0.038 respectively to see if that makes a capo less necessary.

Daniel

TuckerTheMandolinist
Jan-29-2024, 2:01pm
Occasionally, but when I do it, it's really fun. Nothing will stop me from playing Alice in Chains' music.