need advice - problem w/ local dealer

[JustLearning]

I traded my Morgan Monroe Phantom of The Opry for a Dragonfly Flame at my local dealer. He told me he would have to order it. He said they had a new color called antique sunset and he would order one that color as well and I could take my pick of the two. I paid him and when I came back to pick it up one was damaged during shipment. The other had a couple finish flaws on the top, the bridge fit very poorly(hudge gap on one side), you could see bare wood along the edges of the F-holes, and the button on the tailpeice rattled every time you moved the mandolin. I asked if he could work on the bridge to make it fit better and he said no. I asked if he could refer me to someone who could. he said no to this also.

I suggested I wait till he got a new one in to replace the damaged one. Hoping it would be built better and he acted like i was being rediculous. Am I being to picky? Or do I have the right to ask for a better product. I cant believe the mandolin made it through MK's quality control.

Sorry for the long post. Please let me know what you think.

[ShaneJ]

I don't think you're being unreasonable. I'm not sure MK has much of a quality control unit. They put out some decent mandos, but they're not known for flawless finish jobs. I bought one from Tracy just before they went retail. He said he hand picked it, and it had some big runs in the finish front and back.

I'd ask for my money/trade back if your dealer thought getting one that's not broken is too much trouble. Hopefully, he'll be reasonable though, and you'll be able to deal with him on an acceptable instrument. Give him one more shot. Good luck!

[grandmainger]

I too would try to cancel the transaction. After all the trade is not complete until you have your new mando.
Find a more friendly, and technically capable dealer!

[Loren Bailey]

I would also call MK. When they would sell direct to the public and didn't use a middle man they had great customer service, at least IMO. I am sure they would love to know a dealer is hurting their reputation.

Loren

[mmukav]

Do not let this dealer railroad you! If you're not completely satisfied with the instrument, he MUST:

-Order another one, making sure you're satisfied with it before delivery to you.

-Or cancel the sale totally and return your money.

Contact the manufacturer, make certain the dealer knows you have done this, ask again politely for a different mando or a refund, and insist that it be in good condition before you accept it.

If he won't honor these request, get an attorney! I'm sure you work hard for your money and you don't want to give it away or accept an inferior instrument. In the future try to find a dealer that is: Honest, and one that is picky enough
to return poor work to the manufacturers!

Good Luck!

[flairbzzt]

I'm sure you don't want to say, but I hope this dealer isn't in the east (NJ)??

[mrbook]

I just celebrated my 23rd anniversary as a small retailer yesterday, and I would not make a customer go away with something that doesn't make them happy. If they wanted the undamaged instrument, even with a couple flaws, I would certainly do my best to have it set up properly.

The seller has money invested in a couple instruments, but even in these tough times (where you don't always sell as much as you need to) you still have to put the customer first. You want to have them come back, or at least refer their friends. I also know that try as you might, you can't please everyone, but if you are making a purchase or trade it should be a transaction that satifies you. There's no reason to do it otherwise. The seller has an obligation to get you an instrument that meets your expectations.

[mmukav]

"The seller has an obligation to get you an instrument that meets your expectations."

Amen to that, mrbook!

[Adare_Steve]

In the UK, the goods have to be 'of merchantable quality' or the buyer can demand his money back. In fact, the only recourse a buyer has in the UK is to get his money back. Some people (mistakenly) think you have the right to choose another item, or get a discount, etc, but actually money back and the goods returned is the only legally correct action. Anything else is between the buyer and seller.

Obviously this might not apply to US commercial law, but I doubt it's a lot different. If the mandolins were not of merchantable quality (that is, not good enough to be sold - or what you would expect to buy), get your own instrument back, plus any money you paid and find another seller.

Steve

[JustLearning]

Thanks everyone for your opinion. I just wanted to make sure i wasnt asking to much. I talked to the dealer and he said he was going to have someone work on the bridge. He also said he would call and see when he could get a new one in. He even told me I might want to call MK. I guess he thought if I called, MK would be more likely to send a better mandolin. I hope everything works out. The dealer seems to be a good guy. Thank you all again for your help.

[John Rosett]

i think that a musical instrument dealer has a responsibility to at least inspect an instrument before it is even offered for sale. i know that the majority of music retailers don't know much about mandolins, but if they don't know enough to know that an ill-fitting bridge is unacceptable, they might want to think about another proffession.
the music retailer that i do business with inspect and set up instruments before they offer an instrument for sale.
john

[Adare_Steve]

He even told me I might want to call MK. I guess he thought if I called, MK would be more likely to send a better mandolin.
In any retail transaction the retailer and the customer are directly connected - not the customer and the supplier/manufacturer. In a wholesale transaction, it is the retailer and the wholesaler (supplier) who are connected.

Therefore - it is the retailer who should be contacting MK - not you. HE (and not you) has the sole responsibility for ensuring that your mandolin is of the right quality before selling it to you. And, it is HE (not you) who has to do the 'leg work' and spend the time and phone call money to make sure it is done properly.

I write as a music retailer. And one who DOES know a bit at least about mandolin, and a LOT about giving customer satisfaction. Or, at least, I try.

Steve

Shanna Quay (http://www.shannaquay.com)

[JustLearning]

He said you run into those problems with korean made instruments and if I am that picky I should maybe buy a Weber or something made in the US.

I have had two mandolins a Fender cheapo with plywood top and Morgan Monroe Phantam niether had finish flaws on the top, nither had a bridge that didnt fit properly, and nothing rattled on either of them. I understand the finish wont be perfect. There will be rough finish around the inside of the scroll and around the neck. But I wouldnt think you have to buy a Webber or a Gibson to get a top without cloudy spots on it and a properly fitted bridge.

BTW, flairbzzt, no the dealer is not in that area

[8ch(pl)]

I wonder if the dealer knows the needs of mandolin setup, such as nut action and bridge fit. Some repair persons with guitar experience don't seem to relate to the floating bridge and the higher string tension of a mandolin

[Potosimando]

Question for flairbzzt:

You said "I'm sure you don't want to say, but I hope this dealer isn't in the east (NJ)??"

So...does that mean you don't care about us fakers out here in the west, long as you all are safe back east (especially in NJ).

or...obviously those no-nonsense tough guys out west would know how to handle the situation.

or...that sounds like some scumbag outfit that you'd expect to find out west.

Or...here in the east we sure don't have this sort of problem--hope this guy isn't ruining our reputation.

Or what? Please explain. Not miffed at all, just curious what you meant.

Man, I hope this dealer isn't in the west--just kidding.

[Adare_Steve]

He said you run into those problems with korean made instruments and if I am that picky I should maybe buy a Weber or something made in the US.
I loved the 'if I am that picky' bit. Of course you're *picky* - you're learning the mandolin (geddit?)

But seriously, the guy sounds like a 'take the money and run' merchant, the sort that gives decent retailers a bad name.

If you bought a ham sandwich from a transport cafe and one from the 'Ritz' hotel, would it be OK if the cafe sandwich was stale? No. You might expect something a bit fancier from the Ritz, but you would still expect a proper sandwich from the cafe.

For example, I sell lots of Chinese made violins. Cheap, and not the sort they'd play in the Philharmonic orchestra. But they look fine (no spots or marks) they are set up properly and actually sound pretty darn good for the money. Any of my customers would expect me to exchange one with poor finish or marks.

The dealer is trying to take advantage of you. get your money back.

Steve

Shanna Quay (http://www.shannaquay.com)

[sailaway]

I do not think you are legally obligated to pay full price for an instrument damaged in transit. Did you contract with the d ealer for a damaged mando, or for a merchantible good new undamaged mando ? Someone assumes the risk of damage during transit-- the shipper can pay for this insurance thru FedEx, UPS, USMAIL, or elves-- but if he/she was too cheap to do so and the isntrument is damaged when received at the other end the buyer does not have to accept damaged goods delivered in "AS IS' condition ---unless of course you as buyer or your 'dealer' signed some paper saying ' even though this madolin is trashed in transit i will pay full price and have the inconvenience of no workable mando for as long as it takes to get it fixed - if it is at all fixable.' Why would you wnat to have a repaired mando ? bad idea... your delaer should REFUND all of your money and refuse to pay for this mando . If the d ealers ' credit is so bad that he is on 'prepay' status' with the mfgr, find another dealer FAST. Any d ealer that would not stand up for a customer in this situation should plan to go out of business soon. Would AcounsticMusic Works Pittsburgh or Elderly or MassMusic treat you this way ? i think not..... I have bought 6 instruments over the years from my local dealer and he has delivered fine instruments meeting my expectations while being honest, forthright and willing to stand by his word. there are dealers like him out there, you just need to find one. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif

[mrbook]

If a dealer is going to sell a mandolin (or any instrument) to a customer, it is their responsibility to know a proper set-up and see that the customer receives an acceptable instrument. You are supposed to know your business. Of several local shops near where I live, one does a very good job and always tries their best, and I have bought a half dozen or so instruments from them and recommend them to everyone. The other shops don't make the effort, so I avoid them or buy from them only when necessary. I used to poke around one shop frequently while waiting for my Chinese take-out, but stopped because I wanted to break in and stop the "deals" I overheard them giving people.

[Fred G]

Potosimando
I took that to mean that it they were afraid it was their local dealer that they have used or were thinking of using....

[Potosimando]

Sure, that makes sense--I think you're right. I should have seen that. Thanks.