Probably a dumb question about citterns

[dulcillini]

Good Evening

Is a modern cittern tyically set up with the open string tuning being the same as a modern octave mandolin with the 5th course being on the treble side, as B. Thus the open string tuning would be G-D-A-E-B. Or is there some other set up that is common ?

I was listening to David Surrette tonight on his CD "Green Mandolin" and his cittern playing (as well as his mandolin playing) was wonderful.

Thanks folks

Mike

[nkforster]

Most of my customers add the extra pair to the bass, usually a low D, so the common tunings I build for are (bass to treble) DADAD, DGDAD, DGDAE but I've recently built an 10 string for a chap in Edinburgh who added the extra course to the treble as you suggest, but the tuning was GDADA, and I must say it suits the short scale far better than the low D which folk insist on having.

http://www.nkforsterguitars.com

[danb]

I've got mine (10 str, 21" scale) set up at GDAEA. I often capo on the 5th with a 4-course capo to get (G)GDAD, which sounds great along with a guitar or deeper bouzouki backing.

Irish bouzouki is typically GDAD instead of gdae (reminiscent of 3 course greek bouzoukis or applachan dulcimers!).. having daea on top gives a very pleasing drone/lilt on the high end + making octave mandolin playing on a shorter scale easier for tenor banjo/mandolin accustomed hands.

Then you'll also see DGDAD, DGDAE, DGDGD, DAEAE, and friends. More or less there are fun tunes to pull out with lots of drones and echoes in the ones that aren't all 5ths, and more flexibility in having 5ths tuning. I don't generally want to *stay* in DGDGD or DAEAE because it's harder to back in certain keys.

Over the years, I've owned a bunch of different 10-string mandoling-family instruments. This included a couple different mandolin/mandola hybrids that do CGDAE or GDAEB. Mostly, that's a little more range than the instruments seem to like. Either shrill treble or floppy bass.. unless they have fanned frets so the low course is longer than the high, in which case it seems to work pretty well. Your results on these can also vary if you play up the neck a lot or not- a vega 10-string mandola I had was great up to about the 7th fret on the high E, but a bit brittle-sounding above that.

Personally, I think the most flexible and fun axe for a mandolin player to add is a 21" scale set up OM + high A like I have now.. I came back to it after not having one for a while!

[Markkunkel]

No dumb questions, Mike. I appreciate you asking and look forward to learning along with you.

For complicated reasons, I came to the OM family and decided to stay in GDAE tuning (it has worked out mostly, even with the predominantly Irish traditional music I play). So when I came to citterns I tried initially the DGDAE, and liked it a great deal, but it was a bit redundant with the guitar and bass already in our little group. So my present instruments are all tuned GDAEB. As noted, there is a tendency toward a bit of "thinness" on that upper course, but not too much on my present instruments (using .009 string gauges), and the benefit as noted of being able to capo at the fifth and get mando intervals and some voicing on the top four courses, with that drone on the bottom, is huge to me. In fact, I no longer bring any mandolins to practice or performance, using the citterns in that range.

Have fun,

Mark

[David Surette]

Hey Mike,

Thanks for the nice comments. There doesn't seem to be a standard, as you can see from the responses here and on other threads. For me, I use DADAE, and often capo up 5, which makes GDGDA. I went back to look at the liner notes of Gerald Trimble's First Flight CD, which was the major cittern influence on me back in the 80s. He tuned his DAEAE, and mentioned that he often capoed 5, for a GDADA sound. If you've never heard this album, I would recommend it highly. Quite a groundbreaker in its day, and a really nice listen.

[T.J.]

I've known quite a few cittern and bouzouki players who use more than one tuning. Is there really a standard tuning?

In terms of an instrument's sound and range, my own six-course 12-string mandophone (CGDAEB) does pretty well through its range. It varies from most bouzoukis and citterns in having a fixed bridge, and the sound is great from that low C2 up to about C6 on the high B4 string. The frets above fret 14 start to get a little tinkly sounding, but so do my mandolins and mandolas. By capoing at the fifth fret, I get a standard mandolin and mandola, although the scale length is a bit longer.

Could it be that many 10-string instruments are hampered by having a floating bridge? Is that the reason for the tone discreprancy between my mandophones (both 12 and 6 string) and floating bridge instruments? I wish I had bought that 10-string fixed bridge cittern from the classifieds a while ago....