Waverly Tuner Tarnish?

[mandoman4807]

The Waverly tuners on my 2002 Gibson Master are beginning to get a goldish color to them. I would like to bring them back to original silver look. Can they be removed, and cleaned without major consequences? If so, is there an oil that should be used to lubricate the gearing after the cleaning process?

Regards,

Darrell

[TommyK]

Silver(Ag)? or silver color? #You said coldish? #did you mean GOLDish? #Nickel tarnishes to a greenish gold color, like that of a nickel (5¢ US piece) left under the porch for a year.
If they're Nickel(Ni), I use toothpaste. #It might work as well with Silver (Ag), but I've had no experience with this. #Not the jell kind, but the good old fashioned, gritty, white Crest or similar make. #The grit in it is super, super fine and won't scratch. #I've tried polishing compound, but toothpaste seems to clean up easier. #Minty too!
I don't know about the gears. #Are they enclosed? #I've no experience working on these.
#http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/coffee.gif #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/coffee.gif

[mandoman4807]

TommyK

I don`t know what metal Waverly uses. I can tell you for a fact that they are starting to look a bid yellow goldish in color. The tail piece I believe, is made of the same material, but does not seem to be as affected as the tuners. If I were to guess, I would say they are Nickel or nickle plated. When they were new, they were shinny with no color patina at all. The mandolin spends 90% of it`s life in my home.

Just looking to restore them back to new.


Darrell

[jjboone101]

I would think the boys at Gibson know what works best for cleaning those without mucking up the gears....

[sunburst]

They're probably nickel if they are getting yellowish. I don't recomend toothpaste, it can be abrasive. IF they are nickel, Simichrome polish or Flitz will help - not make them new, but help.

If they are silver, maybe silver polish. Keep in mind that the plating is thin and can be worn away by rubbing with or without abrasives.

[Bandersnatch Reverb]

if they're nickel finish... you only really need to rub them with a cotton rag, old piece of jean denim etc. The tarnish on nickel is quite easy to remove

[addcourt]

I've an '02 Master Model also and the plating on the hardware is fine. #Wondering if you might have a warrantee issue. #I don't think I'd put any cleaner on them before talking it over with Gibson personnel. #Good luck and regards(great mandos!) Mike

[Dave Cohen]

Waverly mandolin tuners come in silver (Ag) plate and gold (Au) plate. I don't remember seeing any that are nickel (Ni) plated. Yours are probably silver (Ag). It is easy to tell Ag and Ni apart from their appearance.

Long term use of coarse abrasives is not recommended for objects plated w/ soft Ag or Au. Still, for a one-time cleaning, you might try some silver polish.

Silver tarnishes from exposure to sulfur. The black tarnish on silver plated tableware is silver sulfide (Ag2S). So the issue may be the atmosphere in your home or possibly in your neighborhood. Do you have oil heat? If so, has the burner been 'tuned'? If not, do you live near a petroleum refinery? a chemical plant? Near a freeway or a large auto repair shop? Sulfur is a significant impurity in "sour" crude oil. The refining process separates much of the sulfur out, but small amounts remain in refined petroleum products, and are released into the atmosphere in the combustion process as sulfur dioxide and sulfur trioxide. Those in turn hydrolyze w/ atmospheric moisture to produce sulfurous acid and sulfuric acid.

Bottom line: Gibson didn't do anything or neglect anything to cause your Ag-plated tuners to tarnish, hence this is most likely not a warranty issue. You need to do some chemical sleuthing to find the cause of the tarnish.

[Rob Grant]

"The Waverly tuners on my 2002 Gibson Master are beginning to get a goldish color"

I've never seen silver turn a "goldish color." Black is the usual tarnish color unless, like Dave says, it's some weird chemical thing. Is there any chance that the tuners might have been coated with a lacquer or other clear finish and the substance has gone off?

[mandoman4807]

Thanks for the replies to my situation.

No, I have not added any substance to the tuners. I do not have oil heat, and live in the suburbs of Charlotte, NC. No oil refineries around there. No industry to speak of. The mandolin rarely if ever leaves .
The yellowish color is very slight, but I have noticed it getting a little darker with time. If I could find a new set of Waverly`s I would replace these without a doubt. Still no definitive answer on the material used in the tuners.

Thanks for the continuing help!

Darrell

[craigw]

I also own a 2002 Master Model and the same tarnish phenomenon began to appear within the last few months. It started out as a slight yellow tinge but has now taken on a more reddish cast. I had Waverlys on another mandolin I previously owned and never noticed any such tarnishing on that set. We moved into a new home a little over a year ago and I'm wondering if residual chemicals from new carpeting or building materials might be the culprit?

[mandoman4807]

Mine started this process a few months ago as well. We may have a bad run of Waverly`s. I think we should talk to Gibson about this. Just doesn't`t seem right. I am experiencing the same phenomenon.


Darrell

[mandoman4807]

Also, If were something caused by our environment, the tail piece would have the same problem. Mine is like new. I am bigging to think we have a bad set of Tuners.


Darrell

[addcourt]

Darrell: #CORRECTION--My Master Model was signed by Charlie Derrington on Dec 18, 2001; not '02 as stated earlier--all of the silver plate is in good shape. #Sorry for the misinformation.

[craigw]

Darrell, my tailpiece also started to tarnish but it was more typical silver tarnish (blackish) and came off easily, rubbing lightly with a soft cloth.

[craigw]

I've also thought about taping around the tuners with blue painters tape to keep the headstock clean while applying silver polish with a soft toothbrush. My concern is the new Waverlys seem to have a burnished silver appearance and I might come out with an inconsistant shine when I'm done. The Waverlys I had on my other mando were shinier.

[craigw]

Hey, Charlie D and/or Big Joe, what do you think?

[Charlie Derrington]

Looks like tarnish to me.

Mine are doing the same thing. Silver tarnishes, nickel tarnishes, brass tarnishes....gold doesn't.

Short answer, I know, but I'm sure that's what it is. Try a tarnish remover. I haven't, because it doesn't bother me. The tarnish does look like a slightly different color than my original Loar tuners, but I think the black may come a little later.

Charlie

[mandoman4807]

Charlie, a few questions. If tarnish remover is used, would you remove the tuners, and immerse them in the cleaner? What type of lubrication if any should be used after the cleaning process? What type of tarnish remover do you recommend?

Thanks, for your help in this matter.


Warm regards,


Darrell

[Mando Medic]

I have Silver Waverly's on my Collings MF-5 and they are turning a goldish brown tarnish too. This is an issue for Stewart MacDonald Guitar Supply. Here again, It doesn't bother me and of course everyone knows that Oregon has NO polution at all, so it had to be something else. kenc

[Dave Cohen]

Kenc, you're joking about the "no pollution", right? If not, this chemistry profesor will remind you that there is no place on the planet left with "no pollution".

Silver, along with copper, gold, nickel, palladium, and platinum, is one of the "noble metals". As a group, they are resistant to chemical combination. Silver nevertheless does combine with some atmospheric species, principally oxygen and sulfur. Silver, like most metals, forms a surface oxide film. The film is transparent and is usually not noticed. The silver sulfide film, however, is the readily noticed "tarnish" seen on tableware and other silver objects. Silver sulfide is dark brown, but a thin film looks "gold" in color. It will darken as the film gets thicker. your "gold" colored tarnish is the beginning of a silver sulfide tarnish. This is not some "weird" chemistry; it has been known for at least a century, if not more.

[Mando Medic]

Well we do have woodstove pollution and there are the legumes, and there is Hanford. OK, We do have some pollution. Sheesh, this is like a polygraph exam!