What happens with a shorter scale?

[astroboy]

Please excuse the noob question, but I'm doing some online research before doing some hand's on in a couple of weeks.

Assuming a conventional octave mandolin (OM) is around 23", I've also heard in this forum that a short scale OM can be 20" long.

Can someone explain how the loss 3" of scale effects the presumed GDAE tuning of an OM? Is a short scale 20" OM necessarily 2 to 3 half steps above the pitch of a 23" OM at the open and every fretted position?

I ask as I think I'd like a short scale OM from the handling/size perspective, but not if it affects the tuning -- which I would like to be one full octave below my mandolin. Thanks.

[steve V. johnson]

Richard,

The scale length doesn't -directly- affect the tuning. It affects the string gauges and tensions that make GDAE (or in some cases GDAD or ADAE) work well and feel good to the player. It also affects the 'reach,' that is the hand stretch to achieve certain types of playing.

Players who come from mandolins generally seek to minimize the change and the scale length in order that more of their technique and customary manner of playing can be used as a basis for playing the new instrument. Players who come from guitar playing (or other large fretted instruments), or haven't played a lot of mandolin, often don't feel as limited by the scale.

But they're all tuned to reference frequency notes, an octave below the mandolin.

I hope this helps, and I hope that you enjoy your octave mando adventures, these things are great fun.

stv

[Steve L]

I think the issue is more what doesn't happen with shorter scale lengths. I think you loose a certain something the closer you get to 20-21". I've seen the words "ping" and "chorng" used to describe bouzoukis. Those things are less present in shorter octave mandolins and I really like those things a lot. I feel the same way about 19 vs 17 fret tenor banjos.

In the electric guitar world that a lot of us have inhabited and still do, it's like the difference betweeen a Les Paul and a Strat or Tele. The Paul has a fatter tone with more fundamental and the Strat has a brighter, more transparent quality. It's not a good or bad propositon, but a matter of taste and trade off for playability. There are great sounding short scale octaves and lousy bouzoukis. And much comes down to the player.

The tuning will be the same, but the voice will be different.

[astroboy]

Okay, so might one say it this way: The difference between a 20" or 23" OM is made up in string gauge combined with string tension to maintain the same pitch?

... with the provisos raised about resonance/tone from the larger scale made by Steve L.

Yes?

[John McGann]

Okay, so might one say it this way: The difference between a 20" or 23" OM is made up in string gauge combined with string tension to maintain the same pitch?

... with the provisos raised about resonance/tone from the larger scale made by Steve L.

Yes?

The longer scale instruments, on the whole, have more sparkle, sustain, clarity and shimmering upper harmonics than a shorter scale. String gauges don't affect this that much.

There is, for some folks, a compromise between tone and playability. I play guitar and mandolin, and have a pretty good left hand stretch, so 23" is cool for me (you can check some of the Wayfaring Strangers Merlefest clips in my sig to hear it in action).

I have yet to play a 20" OM that sounds nearly comparable to a 23", but I'm very open minded that someone may create one!

There is a good reason why electric basses aren't a 24" scale- there needs to be a certain amount of string length to get what most people who agree as "good tone".

The Gibson-Fender electric guitar analogy is good, and if you get a chance to try a Fender Musicmaster with a 22" scale you'll hear the difference there as well...

[astroboy]

Thanks, John and other responders.

I'm picking up a general "a short scale OM may feel more comfortable holding it or reach-wise, but you need to see whether the tone is as fulfilling as you might expect" vibe here.

Point noted. :)