View Full Version : Shooting Board Problems
Ok, why does every piece of wood I try to join end up looking like this
http://i654.photobucket.com/albums/uu267/mandowalt/012.jpg
One end fits perfectly, but the other end gets progressively worse. I've tried different shooting board methods: the plane stationary at a 90 degree angle and sliding the top along it--and I've also tried keeping the wood stationary and shooting the plane down it. No matter what I do, I get the same result. Any ideas? My plane is 13" long, which should be sufficient right?
sunburst
Oct-08-2009, 11:25pm
It might be the plane, but it's probably you.
13" should be long enough, can you describe how the plane is set up? Have you checked the sole for flatness and the body for square? It doesn't need to be "perfect" as some say, but if it is wildly out of square or the sole is badly divergent from flat it can give you problems.
When you make a cut, you should start out concentrating the pressure on the front end of the plane. As you continue the cut, gradually transfer the pressure to the middle and finally to the back end of the plane as you finish the cut. That should be a more-or-less continuous, smooth transfer of pressure as you make the cut. If you see an end getting "loose" or the middle getting "loose", try to vary the pressure to concentrate the cut where it needs to be to get things straight.
If I was starting with those pieces that you show, I'd first make a couple of cuts from the middle of each piece then try a full length cut.
Geoff B
Oct-09-2009, 12:28am
Since you are taking more off the ends than the middle, I'd spend some time trying to figure out if you are taking a heavier cut at the beginning of the stroke, or at the end, then adjust accordingly. This happens to me occasionally and John's suggestion of taking a few passes in the middle, then going full length is how I'd try to remedy it. Do both boards have the splay, or just one? It could also be from having the plane taking too thick a shaving, making it more susceptible to changes in pressure. I'd back the blade off a little bit and focus on getting a consistent shaving all the way down (both left-right and front-back). It can be frustrating, but stick with it!
You have gotten good advice already on planing technique, I’ll just reinforce the point that you should be taking very light shavings, and check your progress often. If things quickly get as bad as in your picture, I suspect you are either taking way too big cuts or you are not monitoring you progress closely enough.
Here is my set up for planning guitar tops and backs. As you can see, the shooting board is sloped in relation to the base board, which allows more of the plane iron is used for cutting. I secure the work pieces by pressing them against the stops with one free hand while planning with the other. I can quickly pick up the work pieces to see how I am doing, and then put them back in the same position and adjust my planing to take more wood off where needed. As has been mentioned, your last cut (or three) should be a continous one, and it should produce a full width shaving from the entire length of both top (or back) halves.
I use an old # 5 ½ with a Hock iron and chip breaker, for me this is just the right size plane for this work. Whatever plane you use, it must be razor sharp and set up right.
Rob Grant
Oct-09-2009, 5:21am
When I first started out in this game one of the hardest task was getting that top and back joint right. What finally made it a simple pleasure was designing and constructing a shooting board where the plane is fixed and I run the board against the plane heel. I use an old number seven Bailey, but a shorter plane would work as well. I used a very stable local timber for the base and a bit of waxed marine ply for the "table." The whole works bolts temporarily to the the tray of me 'ol ute.
In the below photo I'm running the edge of a figured four-piece back blank against the plane. The No.7 Bailey is held down with a single "G" clamp. I get a perfect edge every time.
Larry Simonson
Oct-09-2009, 12:12pm
Its really easy to cut deeper in the first and last few inches of the joint to be. I have had some success in using scrap wood pieces butted up to the good wood so as to place the ends which are so easily rounded, outside of the good wood. Its more long stroke planing but it should eliminate the rounding. This is not to negate the good advice so far offered, but an offer of an alternate method.
Another tip, plane the A side up on one piece and the A side down on the second. This way the little variations your setup has in not being exactly 90 degrees will cancel. The A side it the outer side.
sunburst
Oct-09-2009, 1:09pm
...plane the A side up on one piece and the A side down on the second. This way the little variations your setup has in not being exactly 90 degrees will cancel. The A side it the outer side.
That's fine if your wood is flat, if you are planing wedges that's not a option.
The sacrificial scrap wood is a good idea. I've never thought of or done that when shooting (never needed to), and since I run the wood over the plane rather than the plane over the wood I'd have to change that anyway. I do use scrap wood regularly in the thickness sander to put the "snipe" in the scrap rather than the work piece.
Much Better!
http://i654.photobucket.com/albums/uu267/mandowalt/003.jpg
Thanks for the advice everyone. The problem was with me, rather than the shooting board. I was putting to much pressure on the ends I think, causing the plane to cut deeper. I also backed the blade off some to make thinner cuts. I also was not following my progress as I made each pass.
I took the advice of taking more out of the middle to get it evened up. The numbers on the wood show the middle sections that I took out, and I gradually worked my way to the ends until the entire board was flush. I also backed the blade off some to make thinner cuts. I always assumed that if you just ran it down the plane enough times, you would end up with a good edge, but it is more difficult than I thought.
Thanks again for the help everyone!
sunburst
Oct-09-2009, 4:08pm
Good job!
...and you've learned a good lesson.
Tools are not automatic; you can't, as you say you thought, just run the plane down the wood and it magically becomes straight. It's up to you, the user, to get tools to do what you want them to do. That applies to every tool that I can think of. Planing a straight edge is not "difficult", it's just something you have to learn to do.
John Ely
Oct-09-2009, 4:44pm
Buy full width boards? ;)
Buy full width boards? ;)
I did. :)It cost $50 and is 2" thick. I will probably have to pay someone a considerable amount of money to resaw it as it will take a gigantic bandsaw to cut through the 10" wide monster.
I bought it specifically so that I would not have to join a top, but after recieving it I realized that joining this $12 spruce top would be easier than finding someone to resaw this 40 lb monstrocity;)
http://i654.photobucket.com/albums/uu267/mandowalt/006.jpg
Bill Snyder
Oct-10-2009, 7:39am
Is that Western Red Cedar? I have access to a piece of cedar that would make a one piece top but I am not that interested in building carved tops so I don't know that I will take it.
Check at some of your local cabinet shops. One of our local shops let me borrow their saw to resaw some 11" wide mahogany. I know the owner so he did not charge me.
Is that Western Red Cedar? I have access to a piece of cedar that would make a one piece top but I am not that interested in building carved tops so I don't know that I will take it.
Check at some of your local cabinet shops. One of our local shops let me borrow their saw to resaw some 11" wide mahogany. I know the owner so he did not charge me.
It is actually a really old piece of Sitka spruce--harvested in '57. It will make an excellent top, if I can ever find a way to resaw it. I guess if I ever get desperate I can abandon hopes of getting two tops out of it and just plane the board down to 1", but that seems almost criminal.
To be honest, with my extremely limited knowledge of mandolin building it is probably best that I don't use a great piece of wood like that. It's sort of like casting pearls before swine:).
sunburst
Oct-10-2009, 8:42am
...it is probably best that I don't use a great piece of wood like that. It's sort of like casting pearls before swine:).
Yeah, I used a great piece of top wood for my third mandolin and years later thought "I wish I'd saved that piece of wood for when I really know what to do with it"
Well, 20 years later, I still have enough of that same wood for one top and I'm still waiting until I know enough about building mandolins to be worthy of using it.
Here's what I've learned from that; I'll never know all there is about building mandolins, and I'll never feel worthy of using the best wood, so what the heck, I'll go ahead and use it anyway! Are there any perfect builders out there? Can any one of us use wood to it's full potential? Is any piece of wood perfect? I believe the answers are no, no, and no.
So anyway, saving that piece of wood until you're more experienced is good, but eventually you just have to use it!
Shipping would kill you, but I could resaw that for you in 10 minutes. There's surely someone close by that can saw it for you, just keep asking around.
John Arnold
Oct-11-2009, 11:15pm
The problem with hand planes is that the cutting geometry is not correct. In order to produce a straight cut, the outfeed section should be level with the blade, like a power jointer. By projecting the blade from a flat sole, the natural tendency is to cut more aggressively on the ends of the workpiece.
Walt,
Most any decent resaw can handle a board that wide. Dry spruce is very easy to cut.