Acoustic Amps

[Perry]

I'm running into a few more plug-in gigs where I need to bring an amp instead
of (or in conjunction) with running into the board.

Sorry I know this subject has been probably been beaten to death but what are some opinions of the current offering of acoustic amps on the market in the context of using it with an acoustic mandolin (with a pick-up)

And do you find that you still like to run an "out" to the house to fill it out a bit?

Thanks for any and all opinions!

[mandroid]

My all purpose hearing aide is a Roland AC60, does all I need plug any mic or Schertler pickup in one and magnetic coil or piezo source in the other channel , there are preamp outs and ins on the back .
and the padded gig bag holds cables and such and an extension cord under the lid.
has a shoulder strap to haul it away by.
you can use it as a PA as it has a pole stand socket in the bottom.

[chasray]

Just my opinion,

I like the Roland AC-60 and the Fishman Loudbox 100.

Depending on your situation, it would probably be safer to run an out to the house. Use the amp as your monitor. If it's just you, just mic the amp. If you do both, do you know the sound man? Of course, the size of the venue and playing with a drummer (have you read the jokes thread?) enters into your decision.

You would lose the stereo effect of the two speakers of the AC-60 by connecting direct to the house.

The Loudbox can be connected with a pure signal (you can turn it up or down as a monitor without affecting the strength of the signal to the house), or with your effects (but turn it up to hear it better, you strengthen the signal to the board).

There's a start for you.

[Perry]

Hey thanks....

Ac-60 looks good....some complaints I've just read are about the AC-60's lack of volume/output......I guess the AC-90 is a louder version of the AC-60

Any experience witht the AC-90?

[Tim2723]

Yes, the Roland AC is available in different configurations. They are a top choice for mandolins with pickups. They can be reinforced by the mains board. The 90 is heavier, bulkier, and a bit more money. Choose between convenience and your need for stand-alone power for those times you need it. The Rolands won't disappoint.

[Mike Bunting]

The AER Cube 60 works great for me, has a line out to the board (Lo-Z), phantom power and two inputs, one quarter inch and one Lo-Z. It's nice and small and great sound.

[mcH]

I just bought a loudbox 100 to repace a wimpy 15 watt acoustic, and it's definitely LOUD. And it's lightweight enough that I don't feel like I'm lugging equipment. I would definitely buy it again. I have yet to use it running to the house, but have used it in a coffee house setting and at several practices.

[Richard Moore]

I use an Ashdown Engineering Radiator 1 acoustic amp (100W) which I find works very well with mandolin (using phantom-powered clip on condenser mic). It has mic (phantom power switchable) and low-high pickup inputs, anti-feedback control, phase in-out and digital reverb and is much the same size as the AER (which is excellent but more expensive).

[Richard Moore]

P.S. When a bit more power is called for I use a Yamaha StagePAS 300W mini-PA which all packs away into two small speaker enclosures and so which is also highly portable.

[Chief]

If you want the purest acoustic sound, try an Ultrasound. I have the 100 watt model, but they come in other sizes. It is amazing. You will not believe the sound. In larger venues, I either mike it through the PA or direct line it. It was recommended to me by somebody on this sight. They're small and lightweight, but kick a_ _.

[acousticnotes]

Genz Benz Acoustic Pro. 200 watts 12 inch speaker. All the in and outs you could ever want. I also run another 12 cabinet with it for better coverage. The Pro is not light but they do make lighter models now. Worth a look.

Joe

[Pete Martin]

My vote is Shertler Unico. Love the tone, pretty darn acoustic sounding.

[david blair]

A quality pre amp offers many possibilities for dual pickups or multiple instruments, microphone inputs, phantom power, effects blending, tuner out, and sending separate main, monitor, and stage amp lines out. Then you can use any powered speaker or guitar amp. I prefer to mic an amp rather than use a line to the soundboard for various reasons. Sennheiser 609 is a great choice. Mackie makes a 500 watt high definition 2-way powered speaker, and musician's friend or guitar center offer them used occasionally.
I like my old Roland AC-100 when using a Schertler pickup, but I mostly use a Dean Markley K60 guitar amp.
My next rig will be a Manley direct pre and a Mackie. Avalon and Radial make nice pre amps to.

http://www.manleylabs.com/containerpages/di99.html

[Rob Gerety]

I use a powered PA speaker. Never understood with acoustic instruments why people use amps. Probably I'm missing something.

[foldedpath]

I use a powered PA speaker. Never understood with acoustic instruments why people use amps. Probably I'm missing something.

I like the powered PA speaker approach too, but it does require some extra gear like preamp, EQ, effects, etc. You can do it with just a Baggs PADI feeding a powered speaker, but there are more complicated (and expensive) ways to do it with pedals or racked gear, depending on your requirements. An acoustic amp offers basic front-end processing in one box, at a price that's usually lower than assembling separate components. So I think it's the dual appeal of plug-'n-play operation, and relatively low cost.

Also I think many folks don't realize how compact, lightweight, and great-sounding the new generation of modern powered speakers are. For musicians who have been at the game a long time, the term "PA" can evoke thoughts of big, heavy boxes and cruddy sound.

I do like acoustic amps at the smallest end of the scale, where I think they have a place as monitors or "light" reinforcement. I sometimes use a little 15 lb. AER Alpha when our trio plays a small-scale gig without a PA, and I need just a subtle boost to keep up with a loud fiddler. One of these days I'm going to rig up a 12v. battery and inverter so I can use it as a street busking amp. It's a cool little amp for that kind of thing (AER does make a battery-powered amp, but it's expensive and heavy).

For anything more than that, I'd rather be running into the compact PA our band uses. The powered speakers (QSC K10) sound great and weigh only 32 lbs. each. That's half the weight of my old Sedona acoustic amp, which is admittedly a very heavy amp, but there are others like some Fender Acoustasonics and older Fishmans that get up in that range. Equipment like this has squeezed out the role of high-end acoustic amps, in my opinion, if you can handle just a slightly longer setup time, and the higher cost (usually) of the component approach. YMMV, and we're not all going to have the same requirements when playing out.

[acousticnotes]

I use a powered PA speaker. Never understood with acoustic instruments why people use amps. Probably I'm missing something.

Powered PA speakers are fine but for the average guy who justs wants that certain sound without the other gizmo's needed to get it Acoustic amps are easier to use right out of the box. No mess no fuss.

Joe

[mandroid]

Reading about Roland's 'Street cube' it is stated to run off a collection of AA batterys for quite a while.
They offer a 2 channel one to sing in one and play into the other .

[Rob Gerety]

I just plug my Shertler PU into a mic cable and then straight into the PA speaker. Works very well. Sounds very acoustic. No extra gizmos. Pretty cheap and simple.

[Mike Bunting]

I just plug my Shertler PU into a mic cable and then straight into the PA speaker. Works very well. Sounds very acoustic. No extra gizmos. Pretty cheap and simple.

Not even an amp? Better edit again :)

[pops1]

I use an old Trace Elliot that i got off fleabay. Works great is half to a third smaller that any acoustic amp out there and sounds good. has phantom power and 2 x 5" speakers which i think is all you need for a mandolin.
I like the powered p.a. idea, but taken to a smaller size a powered hot spot is 100 watts extremely small, and with something like a Shertler or a para di would work great.

[bonny]

I prefer to play through the PA whenever I can so most important to me is a good preamp...when I started amplifying "acoustic amps" didn't exist so a preamp that worked well is what you spent your resources on. From there it made sense to just add a speaker and power amp when a PA wasn't available. The preamp also turns any regular low input impedance combo amp that might be available (or already owned) into an "acoustic" amp. Another advantage of a non-combo rig is that I got to choose the individual components. Something I didn't think about initially but ended up doing a lot too is play through the PA with just the preamp while the speaker and power amp get used as a monitor....for several years playing regularly in a duo working bars and restaurants that was my contribution to the PA.

The downside is you have more choices to try, to pay for and to be confused by individually and in combination. And while the half rack Raven Labs preamp, Stewart power amp and 8" Tannoy speaker aren't any bigger total than a small combo it is a bit more work to carry and plug in.

I haven't tried any of the latest generation of acoustic combo amps but I bet some of 'em sound great. I doubt I'd ever buy one though just because I'm waaaaay too lazy to carry it when I just need the preamp. :grin:

[Rob Gerety]

Ooop. Sorry Mike - I meant "powered" pa speaker.

[Mike Bunting]

I figured so, just teasing :)

[herbsandspices]

I have a Schertler Unico, and love it.
Two instrument inputs and a mic input = really handy for a band!

[theBlood]

I am no sound expert, but I've played a lot of gigs and have tried to pay attention to what works.
One thing that doesn't get discussed is the dispersion of the speaker with acoustic amps. PA speakers are designed with a fairly narrow focus for the projected waves compared to the typical amp speaker. This means more sound gets to the people in front and less is being bounced off of nearby walls, in a pub, let's say. With the normal "combo" amp, the waves are going out 180 degrees and it can sound muddled because the listener is hearing the direct sound combined with the sound bouncing off of nearby walls. It may sound beautiful at 10 feet, but a complete mess at 30 ft.. This is one reason testing in a store is not conclusive.

Properly aimed PA speakers on a pole can reach tons farther is my point here. I used to use amps all the time, but it always confused me that people couldn't hear well just a little distance away, when it sounded so clear playing next to it.

Now I use 2 cabinets in which I've installed an EV speaker with a big magnet along with a lightweight Yamaha powered mixer head (20lbs). Not really much more weight than an 100 watt amp when I'm using the head and 1 speaker, but the sound is incredibly better and can be directed more usefully.
I've been doing gigs (solo guitar) on our Main St. for the monthly artwalk in town, and have been interested to see how far I can reach with my system, and have been getting reports that I was being heard clearly a block away.

Make sure that its not just you hearing clearly but the guy in back, too.

[tassiespirit]

Just a quertion on acoustic amps - has anyone tried/tested the lower end of the market for a Beringer ULTRACOUSTIC ACX1800 or 900 amp?? Yes its cheaper, but is it worth the money and is it an option for the cash strapped out there ( like me) lol?:crying: They are big in watts department - 180 and 90 but not sure on the quality of output nor on the carrying weight of the amp.

[Ben Milne]

Hi avoid Behringer completely. if you want something budget try a Kustom Sienna. very impressive for the dollars sounds decent and will be far superior and last longer.

[Tim2723]

I'm not sure it's entirely fair to avoid Behringer completely. There's a lot of gear under that label. Some of it is remarkably good and a real bargain for the money. Some of it is trash. Anyone considering Behringer would do well to find a site like Musician's Friend/Music 123 and check out the customer reviews very carefully for a specific item. Lots of variability in that line, but there are some real gems.

[mandroid]

My picking friend got a Big A** Beringer acoustic Amp , he has to put it in front of him because It feeds back like crazy with the condenser Mic he got first,
Because that works for singing and playing into, at same time .

[my Roland AC60 has a simple feedback suppression circuit, on, it doesn't feed back, when I sit it next to me , and weighs a lot less]

Now he wants something else.

[Tim2723]

'Droid, I'm not sure I understand. If you take a large amp, stand in front of it with a condenser mic at waist level, and crank it up, wouldn't you expect feedback? Does that have anything to do with it being a Behringer product, or would it happen any amp that lacks a supressor circuit? It doesn't sound like it's bad because it's a Behringer, it sounds like a miss-application.

[mandroid]

Could be Feldspar brand, just saying it could have the Phantom power and lots of watts on paper, but omit the easy enough for a guy that works a day job at the Sawmill to figure out ... feedback suppression ?

[foldedpath]

Allan, what's your application for the amp? Is this for playing at home, playing out as a solo gig, or playing in a band? How many people do you need to reach, and in what size rooms? Don't buy more amp than you need.

I did a gig last weekend at a coffeehouse/bar where our trio played "acoustically" without our PA system. I just used my little AER Alpha amp (12" x 12" cube, 15 lbs.) to boost the mandolin slightly, so it could be heard along with the fiddle player. A large acoustic amp would have been overkill for that situation. My personal preference is either for very small and lightweight acoustic amps, or else going for the full PA (which itself is fairly compact). I don't have much use for big, heavy acoustic amps, but your situation may be different.

Anyway, note that the Behringer ACX1800 weighs 40 lbs. That's a lot of weight to schlep around. It's 8 lbs. heavier than the 1000 watt powered speakers we use for our compact PA system. The Behringer ACX900 isn't much better at 37 lbs. The ACX450 is 29 lbs., that's getting into a more practical weight range (IMO), but still seems on the heavy side to me. A Roland AC60 by comparison is 22 lbs. AER makes very nice, lightweight acoustic amps but they're made in Europe and therefore expensive here in the USA.

For an inexpensive, lightweight amp I like the Ultrasound Amps (http://www.ultrasoundamps.com/Home.html) line. The little AG30 weighs only 20 lbs., includes a feedback notch filter, and you can get it for around $200 USD street price. If you need more power, the AG-50 or CP-100 (50 watts and 100 watts, respectively) are available for more money. However, once you need something like a 100 watt acoustic amp, I think you're getting into the zone where a compact PA makes more sense, both for power and room coverage (i.e. more than one speaker location).

On the Behringer quality issue, I think they make a few decent signal processors, but I would personally avoid Behringer for "mission critical" components like amps, speakers, and anything with jacks that are frequently plugged and unplugged. Those are the failure points for gear that's constantly being dragged out on the road for gigs. I like to see a higher build quality than Behringer for those things, and also a longer warranty, when available.

[tassiespirit]

Thanks for the information, all help gratefully received........ I play at a new church that has not yet started building the church. They have to use three different venues at the moment while we rise the money to get things started. The venues are so different and numbers are from 60 to 150 people.
So..... we have an 8 channel PA that is shared with three singers the pastor, a bassest,guitarest and violin. The pastor plays violin too (not when preaching).
There is no monitors and both bass and guitar players use their own amps.
My setup is a homemade 5 string baritone mando ( strat pickups) running through a Behringer 2x60watt vampire amp. But my acoustic mando has a Fishman bridge pickup and at the moment I run it through the same amp on the preamp setting. This of course gives me a monitor and volume but not even an average sound, so I am not happy playing that way at all.
The amp will need to be monitor and mains at the same time.

[Ben Milne]

Behringer can be functional when it works...

We bought a Kustom Sienna (30w would probably be enough you) to meet an artist spec about 12 months ago. (pro-audio/backline produstion company)
the spec was actually for a SWR cali. Blonde, but the Kustom did the job really well and kept the client happy. We were really impressed with the sound of the Sienna, especially considering the price. okay sonically its not an AER amp, but nor is it anywhere near the price.

[MixedNutsMandoPlayer]

Tricky question on amps. I have spent a lot of time and money in the last year trying to figure this out. Try before you buy as each pick up/mando combo plays slightly a little differently.

I had a Roland AC 60 and loved the sound but needed a just little more volume, I traded for an AC90 and did not like the sound reproduction at all on my set up. AC 90 has different speaker then the AC 60 and I think a slightly different driver.

I traded the AC 90 for keyboard type amp

I used the Roland K150, I liked the sound reproduction up to about 1/2volume but I did not like how it reproduce at the upper 1/3 of the volume range ( for my set up) ( speaker issue I think on this lower end model). I moved to a Traynor K1 and love it.

Consider giving the keyboard amps at try as they are designed to reproduce a full spectrum of sound and normally have the same mulitple in/out combinations as small pa's.

Good luck

[taboot]

My assessment on the "B" issue... The general theme with Behringer gear is that it often doesn't sound quite as good as the good stuff (remember we're talking finer points here, the average listener can't tell) and it's got a LOT of features for the money... BUT, it's generally not particularly durable. If it's going to stay in the same place most of the time and it's all you can afford, give it a shot, if you're going to do heavy gigging, look elsewhere.