Opening up

[ootee1]

In reading through the threads I've come across numerous mentions of mandolins "opening up" upon playing. #What does this actually mean? #I understand that the sound gets better (fuller??) with age. #But what actually happens to the mandolin? #Is there a physical change that takes place in the wood or lacquer? #And how long does this process usually take? #I ask because I just received a new Phoenix Bluegrass #339 (thanks Dale!) and notice that it is not as booming as another I've played that may be a bit older. #I'm willing to wait but I'm curious what others think.

[John Flynn]

There have been multiple threads on the this in the past. Most people seem to believe that at least some mandos do open up. One person posted a link to recordings he did of a Gibson Sam Bush. He recorded it new and then again after 6 months of hard play, playing the same tunes and using the same recording set up. The results were pretty convincing that his mando sounded better after 6 months. There is also an article on the "Acoustic Guitar" magazine website that gives an account of getting several new guitars and subjecting them to high-intensity sound in a lab. Both before and after, they had professional guitarists play the guitars and rate them and also measured the frequency reponse on the tops. After the high-intensity sound treatment, the guitarists' ratings of the sound and the measured frequency response improved. However, some people on the board here, a minority, thought the whole "opening up" concept was bogus. It seemed that people who support the opening up concept believed that more expensive mandos open up more than cheap ones. Personally, I would bet your Phoenix will sound better as time goes on. As far as why opening up happens, or physically what's happening, there were a lot of pet theories and legends, but no consensus or scientific proof in any of the above.

[250sc]

ootee1,

As usual Mando Johnny did a good job of summorizing past threads. I'm convinced, from personal experience, that solid wood mandos 'break in' and 'open up' from being played.

Play you new Phoenix every day for a couple months and let us know what you perceive.

[Chris Baird]

Nobody knows what is going on with the mandolin as it opens up. Most the opening up occurs during the first month. After that it is slow and subtle. Some mandolins will continue to improve seemingly indefinetately. Others don't. Very mysterious.

[ootee1]

Chris - does this mean the first month after it's built? or the first month of constant playing? I assume you mean the latter. Thanks for the reply!

[John Bertotti]

I would check in the builders section and repost in curious. It seems to me there were some explanations there some scientific. But I just don't remember all of it. John

[Adare_Steve]

A well known luthier told me, recently, that if you were to put one of his newly-made instruments in a cupboard for 10 years, it would not sound any different from the day it was made. But, if you play it regularly for that time (or much less - maybe only 6 month or 1 year) it will sound very much better. Rounder, and fuller, generally.

He told me of one customer whose mandolin has developed ridges in the face wood, put there purely by the resonation of the sound (or something like that). The luthier offered to take them out, but the customer refused point blank, saying that the instrument wouldn't be the same (and probably not as good) without them.

Steve

[Flowerpot]

More anecdotal evidence here: I recently tried out several mandolins, visiting a well-respected builder (Brentrup) in order to choose the type of topwood for mine. On Friday night, I was well impressed with a German spruce model which had a very deep woofy chop and clear treble. The next morning, I tried it out again, and it sounded -- well -- "awful" would be too harsh, but it was extremely closed, like somebody had stuffed a sock inside. I mentioned it to the luthier, and he had heard it too but was hesitant to say anything until I spoke up. It did not even sound remotely like the same mandolin. We scratched our heads for a couple of minutes until he remembered -- "Oh! I took the strings and tailpiece off this morning to repair a varnish scuff!" And that was the culprit, removing tension from the top and making it re-settle. By the end of the day, it had recovered most of what it had lost, but we knew it would take a couple of days, or more, of playing to really get it back.

That little "experiment", where I didn't have a clue that anything had been done to the instrument, removed any doubt in my mind that instruments open up, and can close back up if left dormant or subjected to sudden changes in stress. When played, they get louder, deeper, and lose some of the extraneous high frequency responses which can make an instrument sound stark right out of the box.

I've heard many theories as to why it happens, like top settling/creep induced by humidity cycles, and changes in modulus of elasticity while under vibration. I've read some experiments/data which support those theories (for instance, if spruce wood is subjected to vibration under the presence of humidity, its modulus of elasticity will increase and stay there after the vibration stops).

As fas as how long it takes, it depends on the type of wood and the type of bracing, but a couple of years is a good round number for a break-in period. It's kind of an exponential decay, with most of the changes happening over the first few months and the effects tapering off gradually. But it's more dependent on how many hours and how hard it's played, so if you spend lots of quality time with your new axe, it will get there more quickly.

[Adare_Steve]

I was well impressed with a German spruce model which had a very deep woofy chop and clear treble...so if you spend lots of quality time with your new axe, it will get there more quickly.
So, what I glean from this is...the more you use your axe, the better it will chop, right?

Steve
http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Flowerpot]

Hey, that's a good way to make a long story short. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[tiltman]

Another Anecdote on "opening up":
I purchased a 1925 Gibson snakehead A style several months ago by mail. When it arrived I was very disappointed with the sound because we've all heard how great these mandolins sound.
After just a few weeks it started to sound better and better and now the tone is just fantastic. I think that maybe it had been left unplayed for some time.?
Kirk

[odeman]

I've actually felt mine open up. I hadn't played my ODE for several weeks and it felt stiff and not particularly resonant. After a couple of hours of heavy playing, all of a sudden, it seemed to come alive. The tone was there and it had gotten back it's "chop". I usually associate "opening up" with long term wood conditioning by playing, but I think it also applies here.

[EasyEd]

Hey All,

Opening up - absolutely! Even my KM 250s opens up if it hasn't been played for awhile. The tone is thin and tight until it's been played for about 20 to 30 mins. It doesn't improve a whole lot after that.

I bought my daughter a violin. It was from an estate sale and had been stored in a basement for over 25 years. When I got it I thought it was absolute cra*! Our local luthier cleaned it up and then said Have your daughter play the H E double toothpicks out of it. Guess what almost 2 years later it sounds wonderful (has for a while) and continues to improve.

I don't know what happens physically but instruments do open up - some more than others. I suspect it has to do with sound waves shaping wood and often results in better conduction and projection. It would be interesting to do a scientific study.

Take Care! -Ed-