What is the G for in F5G ?

[Charles Johnson]

In the Gibson F5 G mandolin - what is the G for (meaning)?

[brown akers]

I've heard this asked many times but I never heard even a guess about it's origin, but I know who I'd ask - Big Joe, what's the word on this? Maybe an internal manufacturing code that stuck? I bet Danny or David H. might have an idea also - a related question Charles - do you know when the F5-G first started production? Maybe the shop foreman at the time had a hand in it?

[MikeEdgerton]

This has been discussed many times with many people chiming in with no resolution. Nobody seems to know for sure.

From the Archive. Here (http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-37307.html) is an old discussion that eventually gets to the G. Charlie Derrington didn't know what it stood for, I'm going to guess nobody did.

[J.Albert]

Charles asked:
"In the Gibson F5 G mandolin - what is the G for (meaning)?"

Here's an off-the wall explanation.

Take a look at this mandolin for sale at Bernunzio's:
http://bernunzio.com/products/0812621

It's an F-7 from the 30's.

Pay special attention to the _back_ and it's colorization. What does that remind you of?

Also, consider this. It might mean something, then again, might mean nothing:

What's the SEVENTH letter of the alphabet?

See a connection of sorts?

- John

[f5loar]

I thought they used the Sears paint code: Good, Better and Best. The "G" stood for "Good" mandolin as opposed to their "Best" mandolin the MM.

[MANNDOLINS]

I owned one of the first F5g's back in the 90's...I think it was an '89. It came with a letter from Gibson saying it was one of a batch of three prototypes...it was Carlsen signed. This was back when the Flatirons and Gibsons were built side by side...maybe the G did stand for Gibson to help keep things straight during the building process.....I bet one o those early Montana guys would know...Weber, Schnieder

[Patrick Gunning]

I really like that 7=G explanation. It explains why they would change it, F7 just creates confusion. It loses the "F5" brand and makes it confusing for customers (as it is lower-end but higher in #). On the other hand, just changing it to G solves those problems.

Interesting coincidence based on the F7 style back and letter # if nothing else.

[Strado Len]

I think it stands for "Gibson", or perhaps "redundancy".

[brown akers]

Intermountain Guitar & Banjo has two Carlson signed Gibson A5-G for sale -one from 1988, one in 1990. This puts the G designation into the Montana Flatiron history based on the signed labels. So, MANNDOLINS, doesn't that lend some validity to your guess about the shop production label? Your a builder and know the production end of the business - all those parts/partial builds/finished instruments - and all in the white. How ya' gonna keep it all straight? G for Gibson. Makes sense to me. All of a sudden your building TWO lines of mandolins rather than one - scary thought.
Anyone know of an earlier A5-G or F5-G than 1988?
And how could Charlie Derrington not know where that G came from - unless it was from a previous era of the company that he wasn't involved in - namely the Montana Flatiron era? He certainly knew every other aspect of the Gibson history involving mandolins.

[MikeEdgerton]

OK, then why isn't there an F-5LG? That really isn't a valid argument for the designation. They were building other models that were Gibson's as well, why does this one suddenly have to be designated in the model number as a G for Gibson? Why then aren't the Flatirons F-5F models? It has to stay consistent someplace. I've yet to see anything that even begins to make sense for this letter designation.

[mandobouy]

hi,
i had posed this question to the head of gibson's customer service, a really helpful chap, when i was getting some warranty issues taken care of regarding an F-5G. this was around 2003, + or - a year. he didn't know, so he said he would ask around and let me know in one of our subsequent discussions on my mando.

he never did get a satisfactory answer from anyone else there at gibson that explained the "G" appendage in the model name. seem kinda of odd to find out even gibson staff didn't have an answer, at least those that he asked.

so rather than numerological attributions, i float the concept that maybe it stood for "generic"! nah...

[re simmers]

It's hard to imagine that no one at Gibson knows how they came up with the G. I'll take the "good, better, best" explanation. However, what's the better and best called, F-5 BTR and F-5 BST?

Bob

[man dough nollij]

It obviously stands for "Golly". Their no frills model was named the F-5"Golly", the next one up is the F-5"Lordy", and their top of the line is the F-5"Mama Mia!". :grin:

[fredfrank]

Lee should know - he has the mando knowledge!

[swampstomper]

hi,
i float the concept that maybe it stood for "generic"! nah...

Why not? I had always thought that's what it stands for -- not based on knowledge, but on comparing with the so-called "high end" Gibsons. You can get the "store brand" or "generic" F5G or you can get the "name brand" or "boutique" F5 Doyle Lawson, Sam Bush etc. And the look is "generic" F5 with no bells or whistles. Remember this was before the F9, which is even more stripped down to basics.

[pager]

The G stands for Guam. They are secretly a PacRim model.
I'm going to catch it for that one, huh?

jillian

[MikeEdgerton]

No, the US is a Pacrim country. It's already a Pacrim mandolin.

[GTG]

Since no one actually knows what the F stands for either (assumed to be just a letter designation, like L, K, H for guitars, 'cellos and 'dolas; lots of discussion of this in previous threads as well), I think it's quite plausible that the G was just another arbitrarily assigned letter for the model.

[MikeEdgerton]

Very true, it might have been the seventh version of a less expensive mandolin they were prototyping.

[MoBob]

This question can be answered, if someone out there has a complete set of old "Frets" magazines. At the time Gibson came out with the "G" designation, F5G and A5G, there was an article in Frets describing the new line. It was suggested to Gibson, by George Gruhn, that they needed a less adornded and less expensive alternative to the F5L which they started selling in 1978. The article, if someone has it, should provide the answer. Hope someone can find it.

[MikeEdgerton]

Well, let me see. G might = Gruhn in that case and that would honestly make sense.

[re simmers]

I'll check my limited Frets collection. I sure hope the G in Mr. Gruhn's name hasn't been used for a "cheaper" model, but I guess that's possible.

Bob

[MikeEdgerton]

It all makes sense. If George Gruhn wanted, perhaps a custom order for a group of mandolins that he could sell at a price point and Gibson built them but wanted to designate them as those special models and then decided to continue making them, then the G for Gruhn makes sense. What was the add on letter for the F5G models that Buffalo Bros closed out that were made for another retailer and who was that retailer?

[brown akers]

F5-FB for The Music Machine in Washington State?

[MikeEdgerton]

It was the Music Machine indeed if I recall. What the heck does thew FB stand for? Somebody needs to talk to George Gruhn about the F5G. This is the only logical answer I've seen thus far.

[devilsbox]

The F is for florentine, right?

[allenhopkins]

The F is for florentine, right?

Are we going there again? This thread (http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/showthread.php?t=54626&highlight=florentine) has my long-winded discussion about Gibson's arbitrary letter designations. "F" is for "Florentine" like "H" is for "mandola" and "L" is for "guitar," I guess.

Gibson's "Florentine" instruments from the '20's were highly decorated with Italianate inlays and painted scenes. In a tribute to geographic illiteracy, the "Florentine" banjo was decorated with pictures of Venice.

[brown akers]

Doesn't the FB stand for Flame Burst?

[Dave Cowles]

Since everyone knows that Gibson has always been meticulous in record keeping and model number, serial number, and production number organization and designation, it's unthinkable that nobody knows for sure about the "G." :disbelief:

Dave

[MikeEdgerton]

Doesn't the FB stand for Flame Burst?

None of their other sunburst finishes are designated that way. This is the entire Gibson numbering problem over the years. You have A and F mandolins, L guitars, U harp guitars and everything else. The banjos actually do make sense with TB, RB, MB, GB.

[fatt-dad]

Charles,

Ask George Gruhn and see if he knows anything, then let us know what you find out.

f-d

[Fretbear]

Why is it assumed that everything that Gibson has ever done must make some kind of sense?
Remember the "Lumpy".........

[red7flag]

George would love that. He certainly would not be too shy to take credit. I would imagine that we would have heard that before if that were the case, most likely from George.

[re simmers]

I didn't have any luck finding anything in Frets from that time period.

Bob

[Rob Powell]

Buffalo Bros referred to them as F5 Flame Bursts, nice color btw.

I'm voting for finish designation. F5-G(loss), Fern F5-L(acquer), Fern F5-V(arnish), F5-F(lame) B(urst)...that's my story and I'm stickin' to it.

[MikeEdgerton]

Actually, I found the thread on these, they were called F5G-SB as they had a sunburst back as well as front. Interestingly enough Charles actually posted on this (http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/showthread.php?t=46919) thread. It also includes the information of the varnished F5G's as well, they were labeled VF-5G.

[TEE]

Triggs has reworked the Gibson's F-5L, bringing it even closer in design to the originals. (The F-5 is Gibson's top-of-the-line mandolin. The L designation refers to Lloyd Loar, the acoustical engineer who designed and supervised the constructions of the first F-5s from 1923-1925. Loar F-5s are widely sought by collectors today. In 1978 Gibson issued the first F-5L, assembling the mandolins to the same specifications as those originally built under Loar's direction.)
Triggs feels it's possible that today's instruments will ultimately be as desireable as those of the past. He says, "The F-5 has really been up and down over the years, as far as quality. There were definitely some questionable instruments built between the '30s and the '70s. But I actually think the ones we build now are better than the ones Loar made. They just need to get broken in."

This is from an old Frets article posted on Jim Triggs site.

[TEE]

This is from Webers site...



Bruce's thought was that the Gibson line would consist of the traditional models, and he got started by introducing the F5G (a more affordable Gibson F) and continuing the line in a reissue of the H5 F style mandola and adding the M5 A style mandola. The Flatiron instruments would be more experimental and innovative. He had built prototypes of some of them including precursors of our Gallatin and Hyalite mandolins, however the folks in Nashville weren't interested in continuing this concept once everything was moved.


Sounds like Bruce Weber would be the one to ask about the F5G.

[mandozilla]

Maybe the G stands for General as in plain...dunno? ~o):mandosmiley: