The Story Behind the Tune

[Duane Graves]

I have always been a great admirer of the stories that inspired the songs. Many, many, in fact I could say that 'most' of the great songs we know and listen to have had an interesting beginning. A spark of inspiration or a joyful, sad, historic, family, and so on, event that pushed the author, be it a tune or a song, to write what he or she did. I said this to see if you can think of a song/tune that is popular in the genre you play and give some background as to how it came to be. There is always a story, it seems to me.

For instance, right now I am working on 'Jerusalem Ridge'.....well, it would be interesting to know the background as to how Bill Monroe was inspired to not only get the title but write the tune itself. I'm also playing 'Soldier's Joy and Southern Flavor'. What's the stories you have heard or read? Stuff like that is just so interesting. What about it, do you know the background of a song you would like to share?

--Duane.

[Fretbear]

Jerusalem Ridge is a locally named area near WSM's birthplace;
It was reported by Richard D. Smith to be a musical impression of foxhunting from Bill's childhood.

[mandopete]

Many of Bill Monroe's instrumentals were named after places he visited. I find myself doing this too with song titles like "Deception Pass" and "Mosquito Creek".

I will also see signs along the road that inspire song titles. One of my favorites was a sign that appeared along I-5 between Seattle and Portland. The sign proclaimed "Gospel Signs Available". Now if that's not a song title I don't know what is!

[Mattg]

I'm working on that tune too. It's very addicting. When you get done, record your version and post it. I'll work on recording my version also. Any other takers?

Also, search on this. There was a recent thread about it and the history of the song. Seems like there is some controversy over who actually wrote it.

[journeybear]

There is, of course, "Uncle Pen," (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pendleton_Vandiver) based on his uncle, fiddler James Pendleton Vandiver. Also, "Molly and Tenbrooks" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molly_and_Tenbrooks) is based on a real race: "This song is based on the July 4, 1878 match race between the "Eastern" horse Ten Broeck and the California mare, Mollie McCarty at the Louisville Jockey Club (now Churchill Downs). Ten Broeck won the race before a record crowd of 30,000."

I, too, wonder sometimes about the inspiration for songs, and whether they were based on real people and events. It's well known that "Layla" was written about Patti Boyd, but was there a "Michelle" or did Paul just need a rhyme for "ma belle?" Just who left those "Footprints In The Snow?" Just who was Li'l Liza Jane, and are the different versions about different women? Who was "San Antonio Rose?" If you're going to Brownsville, should you really take the right hand road? Inquiring minds want to know!

[Duane Graves]

Now your cookin' JourneyBear.....that's it exactly...right on......reasons for and ideas as to why and quips like that and stories if they are available...all good and puts more interest in the tune as one imagines the circumstances that led to the creation thereof.

--Duane

[Alex Orr]

"Sexy Sadie" was supposedly a thinly veiled attack on the Maharishi, once Paul realized they had ended up being swindled by the transcendental guru.

In the Richard Smith book, the author says that Monroe was pretty arbitrary about titles to instrumental pieces: sometimes they would have specific meaning but other times he may have written something and just named it after the town that the bus was passing through at the time when he was considering naming the piece.

[eadg145]

...And what's that "United Breaks Guitars" song about?

[journeybear]

I have no idea. Wish there was some place in the interweb you could find out about stuff like that ... :whistling:

[OldSausage]

I'm working on that tune too. It's very addicting. When you get done, record your version and post it. I'll work on recording my version also. Any other takers?

There are a bunch of us who have recently had a go at it (http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/group.php?do=discuss&group=&discussionid=693) on the Song A Week Social Group here on the Cafe. We'd love to see your version Matt.

[Mattg]

Wow, I've missed out on the song of the week thing. That is SO COOL! I'll see what I can do. Thanks for the heads up OldSausage

[catmandu2]

There is, of course, "Uncle Pen," (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pendleton_Vandiver) ...

And, of course, there is "Pen-Knife Murderer" from Vasen's Essence http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=10:wjfexqwgldse

[journeybear]

OK, OK, there is that .. but I think the OP is interested in learning the stories behind well-known songs, classics and standards and such like. FWIW, is "Pen-Knife Murderer" about an actual event/person?

Now, I'm not crazy about people piping up with questions that they could find out for themselves - I mean, not all of us are just sitting around wishing they had something better to do - but when it's a subject like this, which I find fascinating and am curious about myself, I'm bound to do a little research. Who knows what will turn up? The OP did mention "Soldier's Joy," which someone once told me referred to morphine, so I may take a little time now to look that up. I've found that sometimes someone has already done this kind of research and posted it to the wiki so that is often my first stop. And if I find something worth sharing, I'll do so.

[Mandoviol]

The OP did mention "Soldier's Joy," which someone once told me referred to morphine, so I may take a little time now to look that up. I've found that sometimes someone has already done this kind of research and posted it to the wiki so that is often my first stop. And if I find something worth sharing, I'll do so.

I had always heard that "Soldier's Joy" was about pay-day in the British Army (this would make sense because people didn't get paid much back then, and you kind of wanted your pay after lining up in an open field at 300 yards and hurling lead at the other guy [and having it hurled back at you!]).

Will have to investigate further....

[journeybear]

Well, naturally, there is some disagreement on the interweb about this - or rather, a few different stories. This fellow includes both, and more:

http://www.flatpick.com/lessons/december2008.html

Besides being a killer tune, “Soldiers Joy” also has a great history and is played all over the world. My friend Chris Henry told me that in Ireland, where some believe the tune originated, it’s called “Soldier’s Hornpipe.” Another story says that the “soldier’s joy” was his pay, and that some people call this tune “Pay Day in the Army.” Still another story claims that the soldier found his joy the day he returned home from war, and that this tune was played as a “welcome home” tune for returning Cival War soldiers. I have also heard that “Soldier’s Joy” was a name given to the tune by American civil war soldiers who nicknamed their morphine “soldier’s joy.” The 1920’s Georgia band the Skillet Lickers, sang to the melody.

Well twenty-five cents for the morphine,
and fifteen cents for the beer.
Twenty-five cents for the old morphine
now carry me away from here.

I also found this, from our own experts:

Soldier's Joy (http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/showthread.php?t=24453)

I love this stuff, when it works. ;) Wikipedia was no help, referencing only a mansion in Virginia named Soldier's Joy. :)

[JeffD]

Lot's of tunes came from more than one place - came from more than one tune or more than one influence. When handed to us is sounds like a single whole tune, with quirky parts and perhaps contradictory points of view in the verse, which are often more easily explained as someone remembering two tunes and unconsciously or even dileberately combining them.

And a tune may have started in one place, but having been dragged through the garden of time, it picks up bits and pieces from all over.

Every tune is a human artifact handed to us, with wierd bumps and scratches, and often uncertain provenance, and perhaps some loops in its family tree. We make unconsious changes, small or large, as we hand it on to the next generation of musicians.

[wildpikr]

Soldier's Joy? Check this out...Mike Compton's "Women in the Barracks"...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9kDR2Hz-GGo

:whistling:

[Alex Orr]

I vaguely recall reading in Shelby Foote's Civil War books that "soldier's joy" was one of the many names that were unofficially bestowed by soldiers on the cheap booze that was often brewed by someone (or some folks) in the regiment with whatever could be found. Often, drinking some of the stuff was as potentially lethal as lining up for battle.

[Wayne Stewart]

Duane, you posted a while back about the roots of " The Other Side of Baker." Here's a couple more for you from that album. On our trip from Ky. to your home town we were driving Kansas late at nite. Alan was behind the wheel and was pulling into a gas station. This was when an attendant would do all the work so as he appoached I said to Alan, " ask him how far it is to Goodland." He got to the car, Alan rolled the wndow and says, " how far it is to Goodland." The attendant said, it sure is. Sam & I were rolling on the floor of that ol' VW wagon. I think when Sam did the re-issue the name was changed to how far is it to Goodland. Guess you had to be there. Poor Richards Blues is the reason for the name Poor Richards Almanac. When Sam was 14, he didn't have any money to buy me a B Day gift so he composed a mandolin tune and named it after me, my 1st name is Richard and my 1st love is the mississippi delta/chicago blues. Thus, Poor Richards Blues. It was a nice gift.

[TEE]

I watched Monroe write a tune one time. It took him a little while to do but when he got finished he asked " what's the name of this place". When told he said that was the name of that tune.

Salty Dog Blues is one that suprised me as to the actual meaning. I'll let some of you other fellows describe that one.

Little Georgia Rose is another one with a meaning.

I remember someone called doing an interview and they asked Monroe did the little girl die in Footprints In The Snow and he said yes. He then was asked why they blessed that happy day in the song and he said "Who knows what those old songs mean". I always thought that was kind of funny.

[journeybear]

... he said "Who knows what those old songs mean". I always thought that was kind of funny.

Kind of funny? That's hilarious! :)) Man - all the time I spent talking with my friends and my brother and his friends and my college buddies in the 60s and 70s trying to figure out what some songs meant ... time well spent. :) Well, it was fun at the time anyway ... ;)

I remember two things from that era relevant to this topic. Mick Jagger said in an interview once that the words didn't mean anything - but he had to sing something to go with the melody. (Didn't stop Lennon with songs like "I Am The Walrus," gibberish lyrics written supposedly because he heard schoolchildren were being given assignments to write about Beatles' lyrics.) The other is a little note from Donovan on one of his albums - I think it was "A Gift From A Flower To a Garden" - "No misinterpretations allowed." Good luck with that! :grin:

[JeffD]

Kind of funny? That's hilarious! :)) Man - all the time I spent talking with my friends and my brother and his friends and my college buddies in the 60s and 70s trying to figure out what some songs meant ... time well spent. :) Well, it was fun at the time anyway ... ;)
:

Puff the Magic Dragon had nothing to do with drugs. But a lot of people sure thought it did.

The Yes song Roundabout - what is that all about anyway?

[journeybear]

About eight and a half minutes, I think ... :whistling:

Oh, and "Lucy In The Sky With Diamonds" wasn't about LSD either.

Really!

Honest!!!

[Ivan Kelsall]

I always wondered about the time of "The Last Train To Clarksville". I recently discovered that the song by the UK Folk singer (& one of my favourites of the 'Folk Boom' era) Donovan,"Jennifer Juniper" was written about Patti Boyd's sister Jenni,who had a clothing boutique named 'Juniper',
Ivan

[PseudoCelt]

The entry for Soldier's Joy on The Fiddler's Companion (http://www.ibiblio.org/fiddlers/SO_SOR.htm) has this to say:


Danish folk dance researcher Per Sørensen has traced the history of “Soldier’s Joy” in Denmark and Scandinavia, and has written that it can be found in the third volume of "Rutherford's Compleat Collection of two hundred of the most Celebrated Country Dances, Both Old and New", published in Scotland circa 1756. Sørensen’s article includes a transcription of the Rutherford version, nearly identical to the usual melody, and indicates the “Soldier’s Joy” title was used by Rutherford and that it was published with dance directions.

So the title may have been linked with the tune at least as far back as the 1750s, well before morphine was isolated in 1804.

Patrick

[journeybear]

Thanks for that. There are countless instances of lyrics being fitted to existant melodies and melodies being fitted to existant lyrics, and variant versions of both lyrics and melodies. I'm guessing this became a bit less so after the introduction of copyrights and licensing, when people began to realize there was money to be made with songs. I'm guessing a bit here, not willing to spend hours researching this, but it sounds reasonable, doesn't it? ;)

Oral/aural history is a fascinating subject, replete with legend and hearsay and guessing games. Part of the difficulty with finding the truth with verifiable exactitude is that information sources going back a couple of generations are also oral, and require a lot of travelling to find a person who knows something about your point of interest (and hoping they're telling the truth and even know what the truth is). The Lomaxes spent years collecting hundreds of songs, and one thing that struck me was how often same or similar verses showed up in different peoples' songs.

I have to wonder whether Henry VIII actually wote "Greensleeves" or if it was such a popular song in its day that he was honored with that credit. (And just whom was that written about?) Wasn't its melody used for something else, like a Christmas carol? That's right - "What Child Is This?" I remember in the 60s someone used the melody from "The Silkie" and put anti-nuclear words to it, becoming "I Come And Stand At Every Door." Also "Bob Dylan's Dream" used an English folk song's melody. I once saw the Blind Boys Of Alabama in concert, and they sang "Amazing Grace" using the melody from "House Of The Rising Sun." This process goes on, even in the post-Beatles era.

[TEE]

Hey guys check this site out- Thousands of songs and their meanings:


http://www.songfacts.com/

[farmerjones]

i heard the melody of Soldier's Joy was otherwise named Kingshead Reel.

i like to imagine that the title Sally Anne was (is) Big Taters in a Sandy Land, misheard in an inebriated state. It sort of sounds similar if you only hear the last half: Sandy Land/Sally Anne.
Of course there about three more names for that tune as well.

In another place i asked: How many tunes were born by unfaithful reproduction of the original tune?
This is the stuff that fills preservationists nightmares, eh? :))

[journeybear]

Hey guys check this site out- Thousands of songs and their meanings:


http://www.songfacts.com/

For "Soldier's Joy" I got:

Sorry, no songs were found under that search.
Please try again.

:crying:

Same for "Sally Goodin," "Liza Jane," "Barbara Allen," and "Turkey In The Straw." However, "Lady" gave me Kenny Rogers, Styx, and Regina Spektor. This looks to be geared toward pop music.

[TEE]

Yeah, It's all pop, old rock. The Sknyrd stuff is interesting as a lot of their songs were about specific things. A lot of factoid type stuff about old hits and background about songs. But no, they don't have fiddle tunes or old acoustic stuff.

[Alex Orr]

Mick Jagger said in an interview once that the words didn't mean anything - but he had to sing something to go with the melody.
When asked about the meanings behind some of those cryptic lyrics on the early REM albums, Michael Stipe basically said the same thing - some have deeper meanings but a lot of them were just nonsense lyrics that sounded good when sang together over the melody.

[journeybear]

It's the end of the world as we know it :crying: and I feel fine :grin: ... I seem to recall Michael Stipe saying they had to retire the song because it got so he couldn't remember the words or get them out fast enough.

That is a cool site TEE, pop-oriented or no. People should know that their info is member-generated, and probably not well-researched nor authenticated.

[Willie]

How about "Aragon Mill" about the mills that shut down in Mass. and then there is "Nellie Caine" supposedly a true story, and also "Wild Mountain Flowers For Mary" written by Allen Mills, supposedly about a lost love of his when he was young...Stories get told by bands that aren`t really true but they make the audience sit up and listen sometimes.....Willie

[Fretbear]

There is a persistent belief that Greensleeves was composed by Henry VIII for his lover and future queen Anne Boleyn. Anne rejected Henry's attempts to seduce her and this rejection is apparently referred to in the song, when the writer's love "cast me off discourteously." However, Henry did not compose "Greensleeves", which is probably Elizabethan in origin and is based on an Italian style of composition that did not reach England until after his death.

[TEE]

.

That is a cool site TEE, pop-oriented or no. People should know that their info is member-generated, and probably not well-researched nor authenticated.

Actually It's not member generated, It is run by a board of music experts and is collected and authenticated by them. A member can request a correction or addition but it has to be approved by them. A lot of the information is taken from actual interviews and from information from printed interviews. If a members fact turns out to be true they are added and attributed to them in the notes.

It is all well researched and authenticated.

They do have a comment section for members that is below the list of facts and is labeled as such. It is for general comments pretty much like any board.

[journeybear]

Oh, OK, I misread it. I was looking at the contributions from posters, some of which seemed a bit speculative, almost to the point of repeating rumors. Did not mean to disparage. And I do wish there were something similar for folk music. Looking through The Fiddler's Companion (http://www.ibiblio.org/fiddlers/FCfiles.html)website turned up some interesting information but it seemed a fairly dense read. At least http://www.songfacts.com/ is very user-friendly. Not much help for our purposes, though, dagnab it!

[Duane Graves]

"Blue Moon of Kentucky." The last-named was recorded by Elvis Presley in 1954, appearing as the B-side of his first single for Sun Records. Monroe gave his blessing to Presley's rock-and-roll cover of the song, originally a slow ballad in waltz time, and in fact re-recorded it himself with a faster arrangement after Presley's version became a hit.

Picked this up on Wikipedia. It doesn't say anything much about the song itself but shows us that even Elvis was listening to Bill Monroe.

--Duane.

[Tom Smart]

I remember someone called doing an interview and they asked Monroe did the little girl die in Footprints In The Snow and he said yes. He then was asked why they blessed that happy day in the song and he said "Who knows what those old songs mean".

The last verse of the song explains why it's a happy day: "Now she's up in heaven; she's with the angel band; I know one day I'll see her in that promised land." It reflects an attitude that once was common, that life is a veil of tears to be endured while waiting for a better life beyond the veil. In that view, it's appropriate to celebrate someone's passing, not just to mourn.

At least, that's how I make sense of Footprints in the Snow. I like Bill's take on it too.

[Tom Smart]

There are countless instances of lyrics being fitted to existent melodies and melodies being fitted to existent lyrics, and variant versions of both lyrics and melodies. I'm guessing this became a bit less so after the introduction of copyrights and licensing, when people began to realize there was money to be made with songs.

The reverse has often been true. There are many examples of people taking existing melodies and/or lyrics, changing them up a bit, giving the package a new title, and registering a copyright in hopes of making some money. A lot of stuff has been stolen from the public domain in this fashion, the most famous example being "Happy Birthday to You," stolen from the older folksong "Good Morning to You."

[TEE]

Jim Moss: So, ah.. James… can you ask your father something for me?
James Monroe: What is it?
Jim Moss: Well, it is about the song Foot Prints In The Snow….
James Monroe: The boy on the phone wants to ask you something about Foot Prints In The Snow.
Bill Monroe: What does he want?
Jim Moss: Ask him… (testing the waters) if in the song it is snowing?
James Monroe: The boy wants to know if it is snowing in the song..
Bill Monroe: Yes, it is snowing..
James Monroe: Yeah, it’s snowing
Jim Moss: I thought so.. (that worked all right)
Jim Moss: OK, ask him, does the girl gets lost out in the forest?
James Monroe: The boy from California wants to know if the girl gets lost out in the forest?
Bill Monroe: Tell him yes the girl is lost. (it sounds like Bill is reading or doing something else)
James Monroe: Yes the girl is lost.
Jim Moss: (also, now I am the boy from California!!, I wonder what the meaning of that is?)
Jim Moss: OK, ask him if she dies in the snow.. When he finds her is she dead?
James Monroe: The boy wants to know if she dies in the snow?
Bill Monroe: ( pause.. ) Yes she dies out in the snow.
James Monroe: She dies in the snow.
Jim Moss: Well, now here is one last question, James: Why is it that he blesses that happy day when Nellie lost her way only to die in the snow? Why is he happy that she is dead?
James Monroe: The boy wants to know why is you are happy that she is dead?
Bill Monroe: (…real long pause….)
Bill Monroe: Those old songs… Who knows what they mean!
James Monroe: We have work to do here, is there anything else I can do for you?

[journeybear]

The reverse has often been true. There are many examples of people taking existing melodies and/or lyrics, changing them up a bit, giving the package a new title, and registering a copyright in hopes of making some money. A lot of stuff has been stolen from the public domain in this fashion, the most famous example being "Happy Birthday to You," stolen from the older folksong "Good Morning to You."

The way I understand it, the words were adapted not to a folk song, but a song called "Good Morning To All" which was written by Mildred and Patty Hill for their kindergarten students and published in 1893. It went:

Good morning to you,
Good morning to you,
Good morning, dear children,
Good morning to all.


Someone else published the song with different lyrics years later, which led to a landmark courtroom battle, the repercussions of which we are still experiencing, especially since enforcement of the copyright stepped up a decade or so ago.

According to wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Happy_Birthday_to_You), O Great Compendium Of Knowledge:

The Hill Sisters' students enjoyed their teachers' version of "Good Morning To All" so much that they began spontaneously singing it at birthday parties, changing the lyrics to "Happy Birthday". In 1924, Robert Coleman included "Good Morning to All" in a songbook with the birthday lyrics as a second verse. Coleman also published "Happy Birthday" in The American Hymnal in 1933. Children's Praise and Worship, edited by Andrew Byers, Bessie L. Byrum and Anna E. Koglin, published the song in 1928.

In 1935 "Happy Birthday to You" was copyrighted as a work for hire by Preston Ware Orem for the Summy Company, the publisher of "Good Morning to All". A new company, Birch Tree Group Limited, was formed to protect and enforce the song's copyright. In 1998[8], the rights to "Happy Birthday to You" and its assets were sold to The Time-Warner Corporation. In March 2004, Warner Music Group was sold to a group of investors led by Edgar Bronfman Jr. The company continues to insist that one cannot sing the "Happy Birthday to You" lyrics for profit without paying extremely high royalties: in 2008, Warner collected about $5000 per day ($2 million per year) in royalties for the song.[2], pp. 4,68 This includes use in film, television, radio, anywhere open to the public, or even among a group where a substantial number of those in attendance are not family or friend to whoever is performing the song.

[Scary, huh? Every now and then a story will turn up in which some publicly celebrated birthday gets busted. I once ran across a story about the guy whose full time job is tracking down complaints about people infringing on this copyright. He was a real fun guy, as you can well imagine.]

Many question the validity of the current copyright, as the melody of the song was most likely borrowed from other popular songs of the time, and the lyrics were improvised by a group of five and six-year-old children who never received any compensation. The song is currently set to pass in to the public domain in 2030.

=================================================

Anyway, all that said, your point is well taken. Melodies and lyrics both have been usurped - I mean, adapted to new purposes, and this has been going on for centuries. These days this has been extended to include sampled riffs and lyrics. I didn't know that MC Hammer "borrowed" Rick James' riff from "Super Freak" for his hit "U Can't Touch This" - but attorneys representing Mr. James did. ;)

[Tom Smart]

Also from Wikipedia:

"However, many believe that the Hill sisters most likely copied the tune and lyrical idea from other songs from that time period. There were a number of popular and substantially similar nineteenth-century songs that predated the Hill sisters' composition, including Horace Waters' 'Happy Greetings to All'; 'Good Night to You All', also from 1858; 'A Happy New Year to All', from 1875; and 'A Happy Greeting to All', published 1885. The copyright for both the words and the music of 'Good Morning to All' has since expired and both are now a part of the public domain."

Whatever the true origin, I think we agree that "Happy Birthday" is a case of someone stealing from the public domain for personal profit. And there are zillions of other examples.

[journeybear]

Whatever the true origin, I think we agree that "Happy Birthday" is a case of someone stealing from the public domain for personal profit.

I don't really agree, and I also don't see how you can steal from the public domain when by definition songs in the public domain belong to everybody. The Hill sisters wrote a song, whether or not original, and things progressed from there. The sticking point in the court case was that "Happy Birthday" used exactly the same melody as the Hills' composition, apart from the split first note. But this tangent is pretty nitpicky and not really moving forward the topic.

I do have a question about another song - "Fox On The Run." Some say it is not a real bluegrass song, that it's a country song adapted to bluegrass. I have never heard the original, and have only heard it done bluegrass style, so much so I've always considered it a bluegrass staple. Does anyone know the origin of this song? Was it really originally done by Manfred Mann. :disbelief: That just can't be! :crying:

[journeybear]

Never mind - answered my own question:



I'm flabbergasted. I had no idea ...

Fine article here (http://dcbu.org/cwaldron.htm)about Cliff Waldron, who adapted it to bluegrass.



That's an early appearance by Mike Auldridge on dobro. Personally, I like it more done bluegrass style ... and a little faster than the way they did it. :mandosmiley:

[Tom Smart]

I don't really agree, and I also don't see how you can steal from the public domain when by definition songs in the public domain belong to everybody. The Hill sisters wrote a song, whether or not original, and things progressed from there. The sticking point in the court case was that "Happy Birthday" used exactly the same melody as the Hills' composition, apart from the split first note. But this tangent is pretty nitpicky and not really moving forward the topic.

The topic of this thread is "The Story Behind the Tune." And the story behind far too many tunes is that someone registered a copyright on material they didn't actually create, then demands licensing fees or threaten litigation when someone else makes use of what RIGHTFULLY SHOULD BE (talk about nitpicky) in the public domain. I believe "Happy Birthday" is a perfect example, but I could spend all day listing others.

Since you believe that's "not really moving forward the topic," I'll refrain from discussing "The Story [of fraudulence] Behind the Tune" any further, but I'll leave you with some food for thought. Here's the Abstract to a paper writen by Jason Mazzone for Brooklyn Law School Legal Studies. I think it summarizes the problem of theft from the public domain very concisely:

==========

Copyfraud

Copyfraud is everywhere. False copyright notices appear on modern reprints of Shakespeare's plays, Beethoven's piano scores, greeting card versions of Monet's Water Lilies, and even the U.S. Constitution. Archives claim blanket copyright in everything in their collections. Vendors of microfilmed versions of historical newspapers assert copyright ownership. These false copyright claims, which are often accompanied by threatened litigation for reproducing a work without the owner's permission, result in users seeking licenses and paying fees to reproduce works that are free for everyone to use.

Copyright law itself creates strong incentives for copyfraud. The Copyright Act provides for no civil penalty for falsely claiming ownership of public domain materials. There is also no remedy under the Act for individuals who wrongly refrain from legal copying or who make payment for permission to copy something they are in fact entitled to use for free. While falsely claiming copyright is technically a criminal offense under the Act, prosecutions are extremely rare. These circumstances have produced fraud on an untold scale, with millions of works in the public domain deemed copyrighted, and countless dollars paid out every year in licensing fees to make copies that could be made for free. Copyfraud stifles valid forms of reproduction and undermines free speech.

Congress should amend the Copyright Act to allow private parties to bring civil causes of action for false copyright claims. Courts should extend the availability of the copyright misuse defense to prevent copyright owners from enforcing an otherwise valid copyright if they have engaged in past copyfraud. In addition, Congress should further protect the public domain by creating a national registry listing public domain works and a symbol to designate those works. Failing a congressional response, there may exist remedies under state law and through the efforts of private parties to achieve these ends.

==========

And here's another resource you might find interesting:

Freedom of Expression(R): Overzealous Copyright Bozos and Other Enemies of Creativity (http://download.nowis.com/index.cfm?phile=FreedomExpression.html&tipe=text/html)

[journeybear]

More than anything, I was concerned that this thread, based on a very interesting topic, had devolved to a discussion between you and me about this issue, tangentially related to the topic but off-topic, and I was trying to return the thread to the OP's question:


do you know the background of a song you would like to share?

If you want to continue your discussion, fine, but I think it's been done to a turn as regards this thread. I believe the OP's intent concerned songwriting, not legal matters. As a songwriter myself, I am aware of and concerned about the ramifications of plagiarism, but I don't feel the need to belabor the issue in this forum.

[journeybear]

BTW, TEE - as much as I enjoyed your fictional phone conversation (brilliant, really) it never occurred to me that Nellie might have gotten lost in the forest and died. I thought our hero found proof she was slipping around and broke up with her, and that she died later. I mean, if he loved her and found her dead, why would he "bless that happy day?" I've assumed he followed her footprints to some other man's cabin, and was grateful for the snow as it revealed her deceiving him. This is a different, darker interpretation, more like a murder ballad a la "Banks Of The Ohio." Food for thought ...

Speaking of interpretation - it's practically necessary in this song. It's pretty vague.

[TEE]

BTW, TEE - as much as I enjoyed your fictional phone conversation (brilliant, really) it never occurred to me that Nellie might have gotten lost in the forest and died. I thought our hero found proof she was slipping around and broke up with her, and that she died later. I mean, if he loved her and found her dead, why would he "bless that happy day?" I've assumed he followed her footprints to some other man's cabin, and was grateful for the snow as it revealed her deceiving him. This is a different, darker interpretation, more like a murder ballad a la "Banks Of The Ohio." Food for thought ...

Speaking of interpretation - it's practically necessary in this song. It's pretty vague.


Jim Moss the author of that telephone conversation has done several interviews with a lot of bluegrass performers. I don't think it was meant to be fictional. Here's his website http://www.candlewater.com/interviews/ he is also a fiddle player and is a member here. Plays with Wakefield a lot.

I have no idea about the song, I always thought it would have made more sense if he found her alive because of the footprints.

[TEE]

On the Road Again

This was written on the spur of the moment in a meeting between Nelson and the producer of the movie Honeysuckle Rose. The producer asked Nelson to write a song for the movie. When Nelson asked the producer to clarify his request, the producer asked for a song about traveling. Nelson suggested something that started with the line "On the road again." The producer nodded his head in support and Nelson ad-libbed the rest of the song before he got out of his chair.

This song won a Grammy in 1980 for best country song of the year.

[journeybear]

Jim Moss the author of that telephone conversation has done several interviews with a lot of bluegrass performers. I don't think it was meant to be fictional ... I have no idea about the song, I always thought it would have made more sense if he found her alive because of the footprints.

Oh, OK. I thought this was a flight of fancy you whipped up. Didn't see it at that website but it shows up elsewhere on the interweb, so I assume it's for real. Well, that changes things! :)) So that's Jim Moss' interpretation ... which seems a bit of a stretch to me. Like you, I think the song is about finding her because she left a trail in the snow, on her way to meeting someone else. Her death comes later, definitely after the fiddle break ;) and the news of her demise may well have brought the incident back to his mind.

OK, now that's my flight of fancy! :whistling:

[Tom Smart]

If she cheated on him, why is he looking forward to being with her in heaven?

In "I'll Fly Away," "Angel Band," and many other old songs, death and resurrection are joyously celebrated. Why not interpret "Footprints in the Snow" the same way? The singer is happy for his sweetheart being in a better place, and is looking forward to the day he'll see her there.

That's my interpretation, and I'm sticking to it.

By the way, Bill Monroe did not compose that song, so it shouldn't be too surprising that he was at a loss to explain its meaning.

[journeybear]

Those old songs… Who knows what they mean? :confused:

That last verse goes:

Now she's up in heaven she's with the angel band
I know I'm going to meet her in that promised land

So it's not for sure he's really "looking forward" to seeing her again "up yonder." Still, he (the narrator) may well have been indulging in some reverie upon hearing of her death, and may be recalling this incident with some wistfulness, looking at it from many years later through rose-colored glasses. After all,

... every time the snow falls it brings back memories

There's all of about 150 words in this song (many of them repeated). It sure has inspired a great many more in its interpretation. ;)

I did find this interpretation (http://www.moistworks.com/labels/pop.html) on the interweb though, which as I said, I disagree with:

'The bluegrass standard "Footprints in the Snow" complicates the case considerably. The song--a staple of Bill Monroe's act that has been covered by dozens of musicians--tells the story of a man who has been separated from his lover and uses the snow to locate her. More specifically, he tracks her: [verse 1 and chorus]

'This seems like a nice story, right? His darling got lost, he went out to find her, snow helped, the end. But then the song turns, and makes it clear that it really was the end: [verses 2 &3]

'[Roger] Miller's version is upbeat, almost chipper, and it's easy to overlook the fact that it's a love song about a frozen corpse.'

Eewhh!!! Talk about taking the magic out of a song! And it's not clear, and it's not a fact, not by a long shot.

BTW, there seems to be disagreement as to the authorship of this song, in addition its meaning. Some say Rose Maddox, some say Rupert Jones, some say "traditional" (that's A. Nonymous's cousin, both of whom get more credit than they deserve ;) ). We may never get to the bottom of this one. :(

[TEE]

"I bless that happy day when Nellie lost her way"



It's kind of hard to get around this verse. With any scenerio described there would be no reason to consider it a "happy" day. I think the song would make more sense if another verse was inserted where he found her alive, they lived a long happy life together and as she passed before him he was looking forward to reuniting with her and following her as he did on that snowy day.

[TEE]

I found an older version of this song (and did not mark it, sorry) that was an old slightly different version that has an extra verse that goes and I'm just paraphrasing here as I lost where I found it. In it the girl is so happy to have been found that she promises to marry him on the spot and he loves snow because of that. In this version the fourth verse is not mentioned at all.

[TEE]

I found that earlier version.

FOOTPRINTS IN THE SNOW
(Harry Wright) circa 1880's

Some lovers like the summertime, when they can stroll about,
Spooning in the meadows may be grand without a doubt,
But give to me the wintertime, for the girl I have made mine,
Was captured while the snow was on the ground.

cho: I traced her little footprints in the snow,
I traced her little footprints in the snow,
I bless that winter's day, when Nellie lost her way,
And I traced her little footprints in the snow.

I called to see the girl I loved one winter's afternoon,
But she had gone out walking, they informed me very soon,
They said she'd strolled away, but where they could not say,
So I started off to find her in the snow.

I saw her little footprint just outside the cottage door,
I traced it down a country lane, I traced it to the moor,
I found she'd lost her way; there she stood in blank dismay,
Not knowing where to steer for in the snow.

I called her, she saw me, and as we were walking home,
She promised me that never more without me she would roam,
I'm happy now for life, for her I've made my wife,
Whose footprints I traced plainly in the snow.

I traced her little footprints in the snow,
I traced her little footprints in the snow,
I bless that winter's day, when Nellie lost her way,
And I traced her little footprints in the snow.
it.

[Chris Rogers]

I'm sure glad to see this because it settles a bet. I've always thought there was a missing third verse that explains how, after he found her in the snow, they had a nice life together. Years later, after she has died, he is recounting how he found her and looling forward to seeing her again in heaven. Just too many verses to play in the standard BG setting, was my guess.

[TEE]

Okay. I think I have tracked this thing down. "Footprints" was written and published by Harry Wright in the late 1800's with the words above. Monroe says in Neil Rosenbergs book that he heard the song from the Cumberland Ridge Runners who recorded it in 1931. He then in his words changed it to what he recorded.

[journeybear]

Wow TEE - good find! That is a very different story, indeed. More than just a missing verse (that'd be a fourth verse, Chris ;) ). The version we are familiar with is a lot more vague and open to interpretation, as we have shown. I too had a problem with the "bless that happy day" line, and that led me to believe he was glad because he discovered her cheating (she'd "lost her way," ie, gone astray) before he'd gotten further involved with her - or in today's parlance, had invested more in the relationship. :) Of course this is speculation, trying to fill in the missing pieces, but it seems a reasonable explanation of the current version. More so than the explanation wherein he finds her dead; the only way that would be a happy day is if he were glad he found her before the buzzards did! :disbelief: Again, reading too much into the information at hand. ;)

Or maybe she was pregnant, her death by natural means made his life uncomplicated again ... hmmm ... Which reminds me - does anyone know what Billy Joe McAllister was throwing off the Tallahatchee Bridge? I read the book written after they made a movie about the song, "Ode To Billie Joe," and as I recall, it was

[JeffD]

Did you catch this news?

http://blogs.wsj.com/speakeasy/2009/09/28/lucy-vodden-of-beatles-song-fame-dies/

[GTG]

I've played and sang 'Jesse James' for several years, knowing him to be an outlaw but assuming there was some truth to the Robin Hood-esque portrayal in the song.

According to the (extensive, and well-referenced) Jesse James (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesse_James) Wikipedia entry, he doesn't sound like a particularly nice guy: a murderer, thief and robber who never apparently did give any of the spoils away. Hmmm. Maybe I'll have to reconsider performing the tune.