A-models and bluegrass

[Smokey]

I am finally in a position to get a new mandolin. Unfortunately I can't afford the F-model I would really like to have but I could afford a very solid a model mandolin. I really want an instrument that has better playability and tone. I like to play several styles of music but I am primarily a bluegrass picker. So I ask:

Is there any shame in playing bluegrass with an A-style mando?

I don't really think so but I would like some feedback.

Chris

[Bruce Evans]

Oh, sooner or later you'll hear the admonishment, "That ain't what Bill played.", but ignore it. It is generally agreed on this board that you get more for your money with an A model.

[grandmainger]

Is there any shame in playing bluegrass with an A-style mando?

Wouldn't say shame http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif . I reckon the argument would be more about how (un-)conventional you want to be. I think that a good woody A with F-holes can sounds just a great as a good F.

[peterleyenaar]

Tim O'Brien and numeroes other outstanding bluegrass musicians
play A-style mandolins, so the word shame is totally out of place in relation to an A-style mandolin or any good mandolin.
Most of the quality of the music comes from the player anyway.
There was a gorgeous Dudenbostel A-style mandolin for sale in the classified for $17,000.00 , if I could justify the purchase and was good enough player I'd buy it.

[Keith Wallen]

Can't play like Bill... Dang sure don't want to look like Bill... Get the A model http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/blues.gif

[Jim Garber]

Andy Statman, tho not the quintessential traditional bluegrass player, played lots of bluegrass on an A model, not only an A but a roundhole snakehead. Got great tone and wonderful playing.

Play what you want but play it with soul.

Jim

[bmac]

As long as most bluegrass mandolin pickers prefer the F the A mandolin will remain a little more affordable. Soundwise it should be just as good as an F hole mandolin. I believe the difference in Gibsons is aesthetic, not structural. so the sound should be quite comparable.

[Smokey]

Your right shame was a poor choice of words and I hope didn't offend anyone...Tim O'brien is definately a hero of mine and is one of the main reasons I am interested in purchasing an A-model. But I hear "Aw man you need to get an F" from my pickin pals. I was just wondering if that was a predominant view among musicians.

[John Zimm]

I'll tell you my insipid saga.

I desperately wanted a scroll, I paid hundreds of dollars for a scroll, and got a mandolin that I adore. Now that I have an f-style, I really want an a-style again. The a-style balances better, is more simple and down to Earth, and sounds just as good as f-styles costing much more. Go with the a, because the better sound you get, not to mention the lighter, better-balanced instrument, will more than make up for scroll envy, eventually.

-John.

[JimD]

Music (no matter what style) is about sound not sight. Anyone who tells you differently is ignorant.

So. it doesn't matter if it is "what Bill played" or not. if you get that kind of a comment from someone, they aren't LISTENING.

Play what SOUNDS good to you.

[danb]

There are some sound differences, but the biggest difference is the look..

Tim's A-model smokes 95% of the Fs I've ever heard.

A recent comparison of a Loar F5 & a 22 snakehead A model with closed eyes was pretty tough to tell them apart, against conventional wisdom.. the Loar had a bit more bass response but the mid & high ends were nearly identical. Both very fine specimens, and in a nice little demonstration, the Loar would cost about 75x what the snakehead would..

[John Zimm]

I just had a brainstorm-we need to get some fine builder to make clip-on scrolls and points, much like clip-on ties and clip-on earrings. This way, when you are around your pickin' buddies who think you need an f-style you can convert your a-style and then take all that stuff off when you are away from them. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

-John.

[Strado Len]

Red Rector played an A-4. A good oval hole A can sound as good, if not better, than an F-2 or F-4. Jesse McReynolds played an A-50 in his early days. Even the humble Strad-O-Lin has been a popular bluegrass mandolin. Certainly, long neck, A-5 style instruments are very similar in sound to F-5's and have been used in many bands over the years.

[grandmainger]

But I hear "Aw man you need to get an F" from my pickin pals.
Why not try to look for a 2-pointer? It's kind of half-way between an A and an F http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
They rank high on my looks scale... I just love them!

[ira]

interesting to see that in many of the "show me your" threads, many builders' keepers/personal play mandos are a and 2-point rather than f models.

[grandmainger]

wouldn't you if you had
this one... (http://www.brw-instruments.com/Two-PointMandolin17.html)

[jlb]

I had scroll fever a while back and added an F to my stable, and now I never play it, because I just prefer the sound of my A.

Over time, to be honest, I have come to prefer the look of an A-style, as well. Definitely don't mean to offend, but I've come to think F-styles are a little over-the-top, a bit gaudy, a little bit "fancy-pants". I prefer the symmetry and simplicity of an A-style. I just mention this to tell you that I don't think its a universal, especially outside of the bluegrass world, that f-styles are even visually more appealing.

I always kind of wondered why I've never seen an F-style guitar.

[jlb]

like everyone is saying, two points are cool as well.

They have the symetrical beauy of the A, but are a little more fancy without being over the top.

[John Flynn]

Some other "A-Team" bluegrass players:

Jody Strecher of Perfect Strangers is one of the long-time great BG mando players and has played with an incredible list of people, even though he is not as well known as he probably should be. A custom-built A is his main mando.

Buzz Busby played an A-5.

Mike Compton brought a custom built A to a workshop I attended, although he had his Gil F-5 there also.

[Lee]

Lebeda makes the points just a tad more pronounced; ain't it a beaut? No scroll required.

[grandmainger]

That's it http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif One more keyboard lost to excessive drooling... Thanks.

[Lee]

yea really; wish it was mine...
Any one have a good photo of an Old Wave C#; for those who crave assymetry?

[JimD]

[QUOTE]But I hear "Aw man you need to get an F" from my pickin pals.

Maybe you need to find new pals http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

Seriously though, if you want an exquisite 2-point, try a Phoenix.

[grandmainger]

I am finally in a position to get a new mandolin. Unfortunately I can't afford the F-model I would really like to have but I could afford a very solid a model mandolin. I really want an instrument that has better playability and tone. I like to play several styles of music but I am primarily a bluegrass picker.
Okay, having established that it's perfectly perfect for you to get an A, or a 2-points, what are you actually thinking of getting? And with what budget?

[Smokey]

Grandmainger,

I have been serously considering a Collings custom MT or MT2. I have also been looking at some Flatiron Festival Fs but I like the idea of getting an instrument with a reputation for consistent quality. I would consider ordering a Collings without playing first. My price range is about $2500 - $3000. Any other recommendations?

[keymandoguy]

Take this test. Get the Grisman Rice CD tone poems. Without looking aat the booklet see if you can tell which mandolins are A styles & which are Fs. Id be willing to bet you dont score 100% http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif

[Mark53]

keymandoguy ,

That goes for the guitars as well. They all have the Rice sound (it's in the hands).

I bought the CD when I was considering taking up the mandolin. I could not tell which model DG was playing on any given tune.
So much for the scroll.

[mandroid]

Grandmainger,
FWIW, You should get a spillproof keyboard, like my Grandtec rollup.

http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

[John Rosett]

like many, i succumbed to scroll fever after playing an A style for years. the F style i got was very nice, but i paid a lot of money for the scroll. after two years, i sold it, and bought two non-F mandolins. an arrow G style and a prucha A. they're very different from each other, but they're both great, and i'd recommend either one.
happy hunting, john

[Bill Snyder]

Lee957,

There is a picture of Bill Bussmann's blonde OldWave C# on this thread. (http://www.mandolincafe.net/cgi-bin/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=15;t=17762)

[Kelly_guy]

I think Buckley has the right idea. I'm going to make some stick-on molded urethane scrolls and points, that I can just glom right onto my Weber Absaroka! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

I'm incredibly pleased with my A style mandolin. I didn't feel like I could afford another $1k or so just to have a place to put the strap.

[BrazAd]

Smokey wrote:

>My price range is about $2500 - $3000. Any other recommendations?

Heck, yeah! Try Ron Cole (www.colemandolins.com), and ask him if he kin skeer you up a custom A mando like this 'un..... I did, and I'm mighty glad!

http://members.aol.com/mandonewbie/Cole9.jpg

Gary C.
Atlanta

[FrankenMouse]

Imagine the shame, showing up at a bluegrass jam with one of these (photo liberated from the Devil's Dream Website (http://www.devilsdreammandolins.com)):

[Zed]

I've been smacking out BG on my Rigel A Natural for about a year. It does great. I do want an F, yes, but really because i think they're a thing of beauty, not because i "should" have one.

[steve V. johnson]

Oooooh Ooooooh OOOOOH!

Franken!!! What IS that? is that a mandola? Looks longer...

Wow, that is fantastic, please tell me more about it?

Thanks!!

stv

[grandmainger]

Grandmainger,
I have been serously considering a Collings custom MT or MT2. I have also been looking at some Flatiron Festival Fs but I like the idea of getting an instrument with a reputation for consistent quality. I would consider ordering a Collings without playing first. My price range is about $2500 - $3000. Any other recommendations?
Chris,
I'm afraid I can't be of any help in the budget bracket. I'm not there yet! My next mando may be withing the $2-3K range, but I've not researched it enough yet!

What I can tell you is that I've had the chance to sample the Standard Beartooth and the Traditional Beartooth from Weber and I found them very playable and of remarkable build quality. They are very interesting to compare as one of them X-braces while the other one has regular tone-bars. I liked them, and would recommend you try to test them yourself.

(I myself would love to test the Weber Bighorn because it looks so damn cool.)

Unfortunately, most of the mandos available in the UK shops are celtic-style oriented, so there are few true bluegrass ones.

However, With that budget, you can actually get a custom made A-style mandolin from a fairly good builder... just for you... Look into this too... Pomeroy, BRW, Brentrup, Kimble, etc. You'll have to wait a bit but it's worth considering!

Good luck! Let us know what you go for anyway!

[grandmainger]

Now, let's trample over the whole of what's been said in this thread so far, and point out that you can get a very good F from a small-medium builder with the budget you have.

Or a very nice second hand F model from the cafe's classifieds:
- Krishot (http://www.mandolincafe.com/cgi-bin/classifieds/classifieds.cgi?search_and_display_db_button=on&db_id=10775&query=retrieval) $2,600
- Pomeroy (http://www.mandolincafe.com/cgi-bin/classifieds/classifieds.cgi?search_and_display_db_button=on&db_id=10774&query=retrieval) $2,975

[evanreilly]

Of course it is acceptable to play any model mandolin!

[sunburst]

Yep

Actually, this guy just strolled over from another thread...