fiddle players [Archive] - Mandolin Cafe Forum

makemeasammich

Sep-04-2009, 4:42pm

I've played it since I was seven, and I'd have to say that it's probably much more difficult to make the transition from the mandolin to the fiddle, opposed to fiddle to mandolin. Learning how to not sound like a screeching cat is....not so easy. There's a reason they call it one of the hardest instruments to master. Though, your familiarity with the GDAE tuning will REALLY help. And you're right about the price range. You might want to think about renting one when you first start out. That's what I did.

John Uhrig

Sep-04-2009, 4:43pm

I have been trying to make the cross-over. Easy to read the music, but bowing vs picking is something else.
I picked up my fiddle from swstrings.com (http://www.swstrings.com)(NFI) They were easy to deal with, and I got a nice beginners outfit for relativly cheap.

Stephanie Reiser

Sep-04-2009, 4:56pm

I, too, having been fiddling. First I had an inexpensive Asian-made fiddle, but then I found a basket-case violin for $50. It even had a Strad label inside. I've been told by a violin luthier that it is probably German, made around 1890. These can be had for from several hundred up to around a thousand dollars. Fortunately for me, I am familiar with the use of hide glue and had been researching building a violin from scratch anyway. It was a cinch to repair and to set up. Wow, does she sound great.
So, I've been fiddling for half a year now, and yes, the bowing is hard. The mandolin background is helpful on the left hand, but you still need to learn to play in tune. But it is coming along and I love playing the fiddle, and practice about an hour a night and I take lessons as well.

jim_n_virginia

Sep-04-2009, 4:59pm

While there is no way I would call myself a competent fiddler yet I found that after playing the mandolin for 5 or 6 years I could pick up a fiddle and scratch out the fiddle tunes I know on a mandolin very easily on a fiddle. The fingering is mostly the same and after taking some fiddle lessons just covering the basics like how to hold the bow and all it wasn't all that hard.

I have a fiddle playing friend who has been playing all her life just about and she finds it almost impossible to use a pick she holds it at the funniest angle.

I think it just depends on the person and how much musical aptitude they have and there is really no way to say going from fiddle to mandolin or vice versa is easier.

I will say this I really like playing the fiddle and I kick myself now because I know now I should have started studying the fiddle the same time as I did when I started on the mandolin 8 or 9 years ago I would probably be pretty good on the fiddle now.

Which reminds me of my favorite fiddle joke.

Q: What's the difference between a fiddler and old dog?

A: The dog KNOWS when to stop SCRATCHING! :grin:

Pete Martin

Sep-04-2009, 5:54pm

The bow is MUCH more complex than the pick. Knowing nothing about the instruments, one could pluck a mando string and get a decent sound. Knowing nothing about the fiddle, they'd pull the bow across the strings and sound like you know what...

If you get into it, eventually, you choose different notes as the bow and lack of frets makes some notes work great that don't sound good with the pick and lack of frets and vice versa.

I took 15 ears totally away from mandolin to learn to play the fiddle. I probably wouldn't have done it if I had known how long it was gonna take. I am very glad I did, the fiddle can do so many things the mandolin can't (and vice versa).

If you do want to play the fiddle, get some lessons from a good FIDDLE (not violin) teacher. Will make a huge difference.

Randolph

Sep-04-2009, 6:09pm

Pete, "I took 15 ears totally away from the mandolin..." Boy, that that sinks my hopes for fiddle playing. I only have two ears and they're not the best as it is.:))

robertson

Sep-04-2009, 7:20pm

I would stay away from e-bay, simply because you are not
going to know what the instrument sounds like. Take your
time play as many as you can in your price range, I have played
hundreds and probably three really stood out...

Patrick Hull

Sep-04-2009, 8:10pm

I would reccommend giving it a shot. I got one about 2 years ago but have just within the lst 3 or 4 months really been working on it. You can do it, you just have to be patient. It certainly is a difficult instrument, but a beautiful instrument. And, I think you will find that you can do some things rather easily after you learn to bow a bit. That came fairly easy for me. I would recommend calling Steve at Gianna violins and letting him fix you up....or perhaps another purveyor of violins that you may know. There are a lot of good violins out there in the $300 range. There is one for sale in the classifieds that looks pretty good to me. NFI in any of this for me....

JGWoods

Sep-04-2009, 8:24pm

Once you hit a sweet double stop in tune you won't be able to put it down. A great instrument I will never be able to really control. The unlimited sustain, noting at any time, little slides and such just make it so much more than anything else, and boy will it improve your mandolin playing.

phiddlepicker

Sep-04-2009, 9:05pm

Yepp...been playing fiddle for many years.

Beyond that, opinions are like anal sphincters round here so all I wanna say is good luck, it can be very rewarding.

ApK

Sep-04-2009, 9:27pm

I am trying to learn fiddle. It's a lot of fun. I only picked up a mando as another way to practice fiddle tunes.
You might want to talk to forum member Robert Fear of folkmusician.com. I got my inexpensive fiddle from him and I'm very happy with the fiddle and the advice I got from him while I was shopping around.

ApK

craig.collas

Sep-04-2009, 9:44pm

Hi Bill
I play at church and find the fiddle /mando combination gives me a tonal palet to use.

onassis

Sep-05-2009, 5:50am

Bill, I'm in the same boat. I have thi really strong urge to play the fiddle, but I'm a little scared of the bow and the caterwauling. I would also love to buy an older instrument, but I don't know what I'd be getting into. One always hears the stories about $50 yard sale finds that turn out to be gorgeous fiddles, but I don't know if my luck runs that way. Anyone know of a reputable source of old fiddles at reasonable prices? Not that I would even know what "reasonable" is, but it's fun to look.

mtnflatpicker

Sep-05-2009, 6:17am

Wow this thread is timely.....i just got a used german fiddle a couple weeks ago and its looks like its going to be lots of fun...the bow is a challenge for sure but all things worthwhile are tough right? :mandosmiley: I did manage to get a decent note or two out amidst the not so nice sounds. As much as i love fiddle tunes playing the fiddle can do nothing but help fer sure. Anyway this forum is really cool and useful for all things mando (and fiddle too!!!)
Byron

Dan Johnson

Sep-05-2009, 7:12am

I've been scratching away for a bit now... Steeeeeep learning curve:crying:...... But I can see the light at the end of the tunnel (or is that a train?)... And it doesn't even sound like a mandolin at all.....:))

JCook

Sep-05-2009, 7:56am

I've been playing fiddle for more than 25 years now and I'd say that going from mandolin to violin is definitely the harder transition. I play celtic fiddle, and when I took up the mandolin it was fairly easy to transfer all my tunes from the fiddle. But going the other way is harder, I'd say, for one thing because of the lack of frets. You will have to really listen well to get your intonation right, but with all the effort you will end up with a much more sensitive ear to pitch. Muscle memory comes into play quite a bit here also, as your ear and your muscles are the only references you have for getting the notes in the right places.

There are a few challenging things about the fiddle. Holding the damn thing, first of all, can be difficult. Definitely invest in a good shoulder rest that fastens onto the back of the violin. These things are essential in my view, and they have nothing to do with tone, like the ToneGuard on the mandolin, but with holding the fiddle between your chin and your shoulder. You should be able to hold the whole instrument that way, with no hands. You want your left hand to be able to move freely without having to support the instrument too much.

You'll probably find that your left arm will bother you. You have to twist it around into a really unnatural position to finger the violin, so it'll most likely take some time for this to be comfortable. The funny thing about this arm position is, for me anyway, that I find it much easier to use my pinky finger on the fiddle than I do on the mandolin. I don't know why this is, but it might have something to do with the hand position for fiddle as opposed to mandolin.

Then there's the bow. This really is the hardest part, I think. I'm constantly trying to improve my bowing, so don't be discouraged if it seems impossible at first. It'll come. You want to drop the bow onto the strings using the weight of your arm, as opposed to pressing down on it. You will have to press a bit, but arm weight is the key. At first you'll sound awful. But it'll come, and when it does it feels so good and sounds so good that you'll be floating on air the rest of the day. But it's a constant battle to keep improving on it. Use plenty of rosin.

Playing the fiddle is a blast, especially when you get to a point where you have good tone, and good intonation (it WILL happen). The thing is, don't get discouraged. It's hard, but it's worth it.

Jack

F-2 Dave

Sep-05-2009, 8:17am

I've been known to torture a fiddle from time to time.

catmandu2

Sep-05-2009, 8:56am

I have thi really strong urge to play the fiddle, but I'm a little scared of the bow and the caterwauling.

To all aspiring fiddlers: the most essential item for the beginnng fiddler is a torte mute.

billkilpatrick

Sep-05-2009, 9:08am

To all aspiring fiddlers: the most essential item for the beginnng fiddler is a torte mute.

looks a bit like a "kilroy was here" drawing - what's it do?

catmandu2

Sep-05-2009, 9:15am

It limits the caterwauling to only those nearby.

For those unfamiliar with this piece of equipment, don't be intimidated by the size of this monster--the image Bill provided is enlarged about 20X...or it's a bass mute.

Mandoviol

Sep-05-2009, 9:30am

looks a bit like a "kilroy was here" drawing - what's it do?

Ah, the Torte mute; it slips onto your bridge to deaden the sound of the instrument. Those two holes are for strings; the mute clips around the D and A strings behind the bridge, so you can slide it up and back if you want to use it for a piece or take it off. Very handy for concerts where pieces require muting for 5 measures, then don't, and then do again.

I've been playing fiddle for ten years now; it was my first instrument, but let me tell you, I've loved every minute of it. You should definitely learn how to play; don't be intimidated by it's reputation as "the hardest instrument to learn." Personally, I find the bagpipes and banjo to be much more difficult than the violin. You'll have to get used to not having frets, but they do make semi-adhesive fret papers that fit on the finger board to help transitioning players.

Regarding instrument pricing, you're spot on about how they're either really cheap or really expensive. Ebay is a cr*p shoot, as Catmandu said, but sometimes it yields nice things. I actually got one of my fiddles off ebay a few years ago, and it wasn't too bad; I had to put a little work into it, but it sounds decent. But, I would suggest maybe renting an instrument for a year or so first before making a purchase. You can look at your rental and say, "What do I like/not like about this instrument" and then try to find one that matches the qualities that you do like, should you continue playing.

Have fun with it; this is another step on your musical career that you will not regret.

KanMando

Sep-05-2009, 10:27am

Bill - I took up the fiddle a few months ago and here's what I recommend: Do not buy one sight-unseen on ebay. If you can't visit a fiddle shop in person, then buy one from a reputable dealer like Gianna Violins. I see that you live in Italy. Certainly there must be a reputable violin dealer in your area. If you have a friend that plays the fiddle, take him or her with you when you shop for one. I knew so little about them that I was clueless as to what to look for, and since I couldn't play the instrument myself, there was no way for me to determine if it was well set up or sounded good. In Kansas City, we are fortunate to have a very fine violin shop, Wyatt's. I visited the store with my fiddle playing friend, and with Matt Wyatt's help focused in on a couple of used fiddles that sounded fantastic, but were a little worse for wear - repaired cracks in the top mainly. Still, even these were a little out of my budget of $400-$500. A few weeks later, Matt called and said he'd found a fiddle for me. It was an old German Strad copy. It had a couple of "Dutch repaired" cracks in the top, but once fitted with a new bridge and new strings and being cleaned and set up in the Wyatt shop, it's a wonderful instrument. I spent about $500 altogether. Wyatt's does sell on-line (NFI):

http://www.fiddlesong.com/index.htm

Good luck,
Bob

Pete Martin

Sep-05-2009, 11:40am

I want to add to my previous post and make clear I don't want to discourage anyone from playing the fiddle, it is SERIOUS fun! Go for it and have a good time.

The reason it took me 15 years to learn to play it was I wanted to be able to play with good players and be as comfortable on the fiddle as I was on the mandolin. For a while time I tried to play the fiddle basically the same way I played the mandolin, same notes on the tunes, using the pick as I used the bow. I found it didn't sound the way I wanted it to sound. I dropped the mandolin and started transcribing the great fiddle players I liked, learning note for note and bow for bow how they did things. I "unlearned" how to think like a mandolin player and "learned" how to think like a fiddler. It took that long to get that process accomplished.

I feel now I can fiddle like a fiddler and mandolin like a mandolinist. I take things from one instrument to the other when they produce results I like.

Best of luck in your musical journey.

Andy Alexander

Sep-05-2009, 11:51am

You should plan on paying as much or more than the fiddle for a good bow. The right bow makes a huge difference.

My son plays both fiddle and mandolin. He learns new tunes on the mandolin and then transfers them over to the fiddle more quickly than if he tried to play them right off on the fiddle. Not having to deal with intonation makes learning new tunes or developing breaks much easier. Then when you know what you want it to sound like, switch to the fiddle.

JCook

Sep-05-2009, 3:28pm

After you've been playing for a while, the intonation becomes almost second nature. Your ear really does sharpen up a lot, and you rely on the feel of how far your fingers are reaching as well as the sound. When you've got a note right you can hear other strings ring a bit to let you know. I don't see intonation as the hardest part of playing the fiddle. It's hard at first, but it comes to you, like balancing on one foot.

Tuning can be a monster, though. I recommend those little fine tuners that fit on the tailpiece. I have them on all the strings now and they help enormously.

Jack

Mandoviol

Sep-05-2009, 3:52pm

You should plan on paying as much or more than the fiddle for a good bow. The right bow makes a huge difference.

Very true (especially regarding wood bows). I've decided that carbon fiber is the way to go bow-wise. It seems that every wood bow I've ever owned has decided to warp, even when in a dry environment surrounded by dessicant packets ;)
Most carbon fiber bows go for a few hundred dollars; I use a Codabow Colours for my fiddle, and got it for around $300. Plus, using carbon fiber means you're not cutting down cocobolo or Brazilwood trees (they're getting scarce, you know).

And hey, if you didn't want to buy a fiddle, you could just pop your mando under your chin and bow it! (No I have not tried this, yes a mando is roughly the same width as a violin, and yes, this would destroy your bowhair in a matter of minutes. Would it sound cool? I have no idea.:confused:)

OldSausage

Sep-05-2009, 4:09pm

Six months ago I decided to start trying to play a bit of fiddle every day, and see if it got any better. By now I can just about play a tune slowly all the way through and with most notes in tune. So, although I can hardly claim I have put a huge amount of effort into it, I would say that it is not at all easy.

billkilpatrick

Sep-05-2009, 5:35pm

thanks heaps - everyone ...

i probably won't spend money on ebay but it won't stop me from looking. there's a music school nearby in montepulciano and - should they have violins for rental - i'll ask if i can have a go to see what fits best. there's also a great music shop not far away in siena (zilch for mandolins but should be ok for violins.)

is there a "fiddler's.cafe" - or some such - to explore the knit-e grit-e of all things fiddle without trying the patience of mandolin-ists?

catmandu2

Sep-05-2009, 6:20pm

http://www.fiddlehangout.com/forum/

ApK

Sep-05-2009, 7:16pm

www.fiddleforum.com

300win

Sep-05-2009, 7:48pm

Long years ago I tried, I mean really tried hard, I don't have the bow arm. My dad had a fiddle that I could actually play and get perfect intonation on it without having to adjust my fingers it noted with my fingers dead on to what they are on a mandolin. I actually got to where I could play stuff like "Bill Cheatam', Sally Goodun" and a few waltzes. It was a very nice fiddle, very old, and sadly it got stolen from me while I was at an outdoor fiddler's convention, by I think someone I know for they only took the fiddle out of the vehicle it was in, my mandolin, a guitar, and a bass were never touched. After getting on the internet and searching I found out that this particular fiddle was made in France in the late 1800's, and it is worth $7000 today. May the person who stole it rot forever in some bad place. I hate a theif and liar worse than anything else. I would have loved to still have it as it was my dads, not for the $ amount its worth. It was a great sounding fiddle, very deep tone and loud. Several real fiddle players that played it like it very much, and one of them possibly is the person who stole it. Whoever it was knew exactly where it was and what it was. I was not gone but about 10 minutes so apparently they were standing in the dark just waiting for their chance. I would have rather they stole my mandolin rather than my dads fiddle.

Mandoviol

Sep-05-2009, 11:03pm

I would have loved to still have it as it was my dads, not for the $ amount its worth. It was a great sounding fiddle, very deep tone and loud. Several real fiddle players that played it like it very much, and one of them possibly is the person who stole it. Whoever it was knew exactly where it was and what it was. I was not gone but about 10 minutes so apparently they were standing in the dark just waiting for their chance. I would have rather they stole my mandolin rather than my dads fiddle.

My 1910 violin belonged to my grandmother. I don't know what I'd do if it was ever stolen. I'm terribly sorry about your loss. If you know the maker and year (and anything special about the instrument), it is now easier for the authorities to find stolen instruments.
Perhaps the fiend who stole your father's violin will read this and hopefully have a change of heart...

Jim Garber

Sep-06-2009, 10:44am

300win

Sep-06-2009, 11:49am

My 1910 violin belonged to my grandmother. I don't know what I'd do if it was ever stolen. I'm terribly sorry about your loss. If you know the maker and year (and anything special about the instrument), it is now easier for the authorities to find stolen instruments.
Perhaps the fiend who stole your father's violin will read this and hopefully have a change of heart...

Yea I can only hope that would happen that someone would have a change of heart, but theives are not wired that way. The name of the fiddle was "Ol' Bull". It had the name imprinted into the base of the heel of the neck. Is a good name for it because it was a "bull" of a fiddle in tone and volume.

300win

Sep-06-2009, 11:57am

I have been playing fiddle for over 30 years... I took it up a the same time as the mandolin. Steer clear away from eBay. Find yourself another fiddler friend and go shopping with that person. You can probably find something pretty good esp nowadays with the Asian makers.

Mutes are fine but at some point you need to play muteless to work on the real tone. You can't use them forever.

Above all, try to find others to play with... very difficult to play alone. Also, it might be beneficial to find yourself a good teacher, even a classical one.

Also figure out what kind of music you would like to play on it. And listen to lots of that kind of music.

it is not so difficult, juts be patient.

I agrre about the classical teacher although I'm a pure Bluegrass man. Years ago I was a judge at a fiddlers convention, a young lady came on stahe with her fiddle and a guitar playing friend to accompany her. She played a melody of three Monroe tunes, expertly with perfect tone, timing, the whole thing. I and another judge awarded her first place to the outrage of the other judge who was pulling for the hometown favorite who played Orange Blossum special, so what any fiddle player can do that tune, even I could manage a rendition of it back when I was trying to learn. The gist of this is that the young lass was a classical viloin player that played in a orchestra, but she could flat out play the fiddle also. She was the best fiddle player in the place that night hands down. I knew some of the other fiddle players and they knew me, some of course got mad, but others who really knew music realized they had been beaten fair and square. If you can find a classically trained violin player that also can play the fiddle by ear, they will be able to help you in leaps and bounds in my opinion.

Randy Smith

Sep-06-2009, 7:12pm

Bill,

You received some really good advice already from earlier posts:

1. Spend more on your bow than your fiddle. Depending on how much you money you plan to part with, you might spend a lot more on the bow. If you want to to spend a total of $100., borrow a fiddle and spend all of the money on a bow.

2. Try using a carbon bow if you can.

3. If you work on the fiddle long enough, you'll do well with your fingering hand. Using the bow is the eight and a half of the nine yards of fiddling.

Listen to others play. Listen to cds. Play slowly while listening to yourself. Start with simple tunes. Don't get discouraged. Have a ball! Playing even a few times will be a great time.

R.S.

Littlestrings27

Sep-06-2009, 7:20pm

I agree with Pete. Fiddle is an amazing instrument and you should not be discouraged to try. If you play mando, your left hand is already 'trained'.
I'm a 6 yr fiddler and have now started mando. After getting the bow hand down pat, I figured the pick would be easy, but it's not!

They are two different things I guess.

Andy Alexander

Sep-06-2009, 7:58pm

If you can find a classically trained violin player that also can play the fiddle by ear, they will be able to help you in leaps and bounds in my opinion.

The classical folks have been at it for centurys and have figured out the right techniques to get the best results. A lot of fiddlers have done themselves a disservice by not learning to hold the instrument or bow properly, not learning good bowing or left hand fingering technique, etc. Their flawed technical skills often prove to be an impediment to becoming a good fiddle player.

allenhopkins

Sep-06-2009, 9:39pm

The name of the fiddle was "Ol' Bull". It had the name imprinted into the base of the heel of the neck. Is a good name for it because it was a "bull" of a fiddle in tone and volume.

Might have been labeled after Ole Bull, the famous 19th-century Norwegian violinist. His attempt to found a Norwegian settlement in Pennsylvania is immortalized in the folk song Oleanna, which is sung both in Norwegian and English.

Here's some info from www.theviolinman.co.uk/: (http://www.theviolinman.co.uk/messages/910.html)

Ole Bull was a great Norwegian violin virtuoso.
Many factories in Germany once added the name of a virtuoso to their instruments, possibly as a 'model' or possibly to give them some credibility. Personally, I think it was merely a model. Names such as Nicolo Paganini were used, as well as Ole Bull.
Such names I have seen appearing in various places - on tickets, as 'brand marks' both inside the back, or on the outside below the button, and also sometimes carved into the back of the scroll.
Without further information, I can only provide the information above, apart from that your instrument is likely to date from between 1890 and 1920, and is most probably the product of a German factory in Mittenwald or possibly Klingenthal or Bubenreuth. I can't ever remember seeing one from Markneukirchen, but maybe someone else has.
I hope this is of assistance.

billkilpatrick

Sep-07-2009, 9:08am

farmerjones

Sep-07-2009, 10:28am

how about one of you(se) starting a fiddle players social group? i would ... but it'd be presumptuous as i don't have a fiddle and don't know the first thing about it. it would be interesting to talk about it as a secondary instrument (i assume most of us consider the mandolin as a primary instrument) and maybe (gasp!) post some videos showing your progress to date.

for example - pardon my ignorance but i thought violin strings were made from gut. if and when i get one i'd like to find some strings that give a mellow, rather than a bright, hard metal sound. do such things exist?

That sounds like a good idea.
i started playing fiddle about two weeks earlier than the mandolin. i've got about 5000 hours (5yrs.)on the fiddle. Right now, it's about one third mondolin, two thirds fiddle time. I think if you have the knack, and can accurately hear yourself, you have an advantage learrning any new instrument. Lots of good advice so far. i believe in old fiddles (not expensive), pernambuco wood sticks (bows) and Prim strings.

Tourmaline

Sep-07-2009, 11:07am

If you buy a carbon bow, make sure that you test it first and that it is real horsehair; I got burned recently by buying a carbon bow sight unseen, not noticing that the ad did not say real horsehair, and finding that I could not make good tone with it at all on my violin. Thankfully, the company was a reputable one, took the bow back and refunded my money, including shipping. But still, I have learned from this that bow hair is not created equal.

Violin strings can be metal-core, synthetic core, or (I have heard of but haven't seen) gut core --- synthetic core, in my experience, have a mellower sound, and are easier on the fingers.

One thing is that this instrument is a very expensive hobby, much more so than mandolins or guitars.
'Are violins more expensive than ballet shoes?'
'There are few things in the world more expensive than ballet shoes. Violins happen to be among them.'

Another is that it is, ergonomically, hard on your shoulders and arms and wrist, much more so than mando. As this luthier (http://www.rivinus-instruments.com/DesignConcepts.htm)explains, your wrist ends up in an unnatural position, and so does your shoulder from gripping that thing. My own violin teacher had to have massages on a regular basis, her shoulder muscles were so tense and cramped, and apparently tendonitis and other RSIs are rampant among professionals. Indeed, I sometimes think humanity would have discarded that torture device of an instrument long ago, if it didn't sound so darn good when it sounds good. So keep in mind that if you want your life with the fiddle to be a good long one, listen to your body and take it slow and steady.

Jim Garber

Sep-07-2009, 3:13pm

for example - pardon my ignorance but i thought violin strings were made from gut. if and when i get one i'd like to find some strings that give a mellow, rather than a bright, hard metal sound. do such things exist?

There are violin strings that are made from gut but they are expensive and are a bear to tune. Unless you want to play baroque style on a period instrument I would not bother and in any case, I would not bother to start with anyway.

The most common violin strings are Thomastik Dominants which are sort of a nylon core. They are pretty mellow in general. When i first started fiddling, I used steel strings but ended up buying a fiddle with Dominants and kept using them. I think my current fiddle has Pirastro Aricores on them, but they are pretty similar to Dominants.

300win

Sep-07-2009, 3:17pm

Might have been labeled after Ole Bull, the famous 19th-century Norwegian violinist. His attempt to found a Norwegian settlement in Pennsylvania is immortalized in the folk song Oleanna, which is sung both in Norwegian and English.

Here's some info from www.theviolinman.co.uk/: (http://www.theviolinman.co.uk/messages/910.html)

Ole Bull was a great Norwegian violin virtuoso.
Many factories in Germany once added the name of a virtuoso to their instruments, possibly as a 'model' or possibly to give them some credibility. Personally, I think it was merely a model. Names such as Nicolo Paganini were used, as well as Ole Bull.
Such names I have seen appearing in various places - on tickets, as 'brand marks' both inside the back, or on the outside below the button, and also sometimes carved into the back of the scroll.
Without further information, I can only provide the information above, apart from that your instrument is likely to date from between 1890 and 1920, and is most probably the product of a German factory in Mittenwald or possibly Klingenthal or Bubenreuth. I can't ever remember seeing one from Markneukirchen, but maybe someone else has.
I hope this is of assistance.

Thanks for the info. It could have been one of those, it was a long time ago.

300win

Sep-07-2009, 3:18pm

how about one of you(se) starting a fiddle players social group? i would ... but it'd be presumptuous as i don't have a fiddle and don't know the first thing about it. it would be interesting to talk about it as a secondary instrument (i assume most of us consider the mandolin as a primary instrument) and maybe (gasp!) post some videos showing your progress to date.

for example - pardon my ignorance but i thought violin strings were made from gut. if and when i get one i'd like to find some strings that give a mellow, rather than a bright, hard metal sound. do such things exist?

do-si-do and ready to go - bill

There is already one up and running on the net. Fiddle Hangout, began by the same guy who started Banjo Hangout.

Mandoviol

Sep-07-2009, 3:23pm

The most common violin strings are Thomastik Dominants which are sort of a nylon core. They are pretty mellow in general. When i first started fiddling, I used steel strings but ended up buying a fiddle with Dominants and kept using them. I think my current fiddle has Pirastro Aricores on them, but they are pretty similar to Dominants.

Just how similar, you may ask? I actually use a combo: G, D, and A strings are all Thomastiks, and my E is a Pirastro Gold Label. I've gotten good mileage out of that combination.

catmandu2

Sep-07-2009, 3:29pm

I would be interested in a fiddle group. Even though I was the third person to join the fiddlehangout, which has over 5500 members now, I still have made only 12 posts on that forum. Even though I play more fiddle than I do mando, this is still my favorite of the half-dozen forums where I visit.

Strings are an engaging discussion. I used to use Dominants, but the store was out of them one day when I needed a set, so I tried Helicores. I think they're mellower than the TIs...and cheaper :whistling:. My upright is also currently strung with Helicores.

catmandu2

Sep-07-2009, 3:47pm

Okay Bill, et al, we have a social group. I guess I was qualified to start it...seeing my signature is what it is...;)

billkilpatrick

Sep-07-2009, 4:39pm

i've been given the use of - what i now know to be - a tenor, viola da gamba. it's a well-made replica instrument, tuned in 4ths - confusing and guitar like but made comprehensible by omitting the 1st and 6th strings and tuned like a viola (CGDA). it has gut strings and sounds ok-ish ...

i think catmandu2's fiddle group deserves some support - can we shift discussions there? ... especially as i have a particular lot of questions concerning strings and some observations concerning what's available on ebay here in europe (vis-à-vis fiddles) as opposed to what you'awl can expect to find in the states.

as it is ... old fiddle + new carbon-fiber/horse-hair bow + nylon core strings seems to be where i'm going. a lovely woman in our village demonstrated the suppleness required in the bowing hand and i've got this image of a pale, slim wrist wavering back and forth before me with mesmerizing fluidity.

great stuff ...

catmandu2

Sep-07-2009, 5:02pm

Bill, my reply is over on the group thread.

David M.

Sep-08-2009, 1:57pm

Hey Bill. I see you posted a home page on FiddleHangOut. It's a great resource for uploading tunes.

I've been fiddling about 15 or so years.

JeffD

Sep-08-2009, 4:38pm

Learning the fiddle has really improved my manolin playing!

But the fiddle is a very jealous instrument - it refuses to be anyone's second instrument. I find that playing/practicing it twice a week is just enough to keep it a painful experience, but not enough to improve.

I am making a major investment in a fiddle in a bit, so I need to get better. To deserve the violin I put a down payment on.

catmandu2

Sep-08-2009, 4:52pm

Jeff, the fiddle will let you be her second...(oh, if you join our group, that is.. ;))

billkilpatrick

Sep-08-2009, 5:04pm

apropos of nothing in particular - and in consideration of the vagaries (and vulgarities) available on the internet ... i just googled "mersenne's laws of physics" to find out what - in fact - they were and was subsequently treated to a series of algebraic equations on the left side of my computer screen alongside the photo of a provocatively-clad young lady, sticking her tongue out on the right.

i have to confess that music - and science - suffered.

JeffD

Sep-12-2009, 10:27pm

i just googled "mersenne's laws of physics" to find out what - in fact - they were and was subsequently treated to a series of algebraic equations on the left side of my computer screen alongside the photo of a provocatively-clad young lady, sticking her tongue out on the right.
.

I haven't seen the lady.

But for those interested, Mersenne's laws describe how the pitch of a plucked or bowed string changes in response to changes in length, tension, and string diameter.

There's fascinating physics in how a bowed string makes a sound, non-linear friction and all that.

But, alas, this isn't the fascinating physics cafe.