Volume boost for solos

[megamafro]

Hi Guys

I'm pretty new here, so please be gentle.

I play mandolin in a chaos folk band called Los Salvadores. We take elements from punk, ska, hardcore, dance etc... and it works well, and we are getting a good name for ourselves in the UK

If you want to download our latest ep you can at www.lossalvadores.co.uk/mp3s

I am wondering if anyone out there can help with a small issue I am having.

A lot of the music I play is chords, and then licks and solos. I was having an issue of the solo work I was playing being drowned out by the other instruments, so wanted a boost for playing the fiddly bits.

I play michael kelly mandolins, and I play them through a Marshall TSL100 stack. The clean sound I get is incredible, I love it. To boost fo solos I have setup a lead channel on the amp with the gain only just on, and the volum whacked up. This gives a punch up in volume, but without the distortion. The problem being is that its not the nicest of sound, and can be quite harsh.

Is there a pedal or sonething on the market that people use for this boost in volum for soloing?

If you need any more info let me know

Many thanks
Mafro

[Kevin K]

Use a volume pedal

[Matt DeBlass]

Kevin is right, there are pedals designed just for volume control. The ones I've seen are a kind of rocker switch, like a wah-wah pedal.
Here's some examples of types and (US) prices at Guitar Center (http://www.guitarcenter.com/Volume-and-Expression-Guitar-Effects-Pedals1.gc?source=4WWRWXGG)

[megamafro]

Sorry if this is a stupid question? But does a volum pedal go from off through on on full?? Or from a preset level to louder?

Just asking, as you would need to be able to rock the pedal back to normal volume after you have boosted rather than rock back to where you think you were before?

[Tim2723]

Hi Mafro and welcome!

I also have a lot of experience with the Michael Kelly electrics. Probably the simplest solution is a volume pedal. Set your amp's volume for your lead with the pedal full on, and then use the pedal to lower the volume for everything else. There are a couple of pre-amplifier stomp boxes on the market for this purpose, but I'm not sure what's available or affordable in the UK. Some of the graphic EQ stomp boxes can be used for this as well by setting the basic volume and tone through the amp with the box turned off (in bypass mode), then using the gain and EQ functions to tailor your lead volume and tone with the box activated.

One of the biggest problems with the MK instruments is that they have very little boost coming from their on-board preamp. When running them through a guitar amp, you can easily get distortion from cranking the gain up to compensate. Adding an outboard preamp will help a lot when going for very loud volumes.

[Tim2723]

Missed your second post while typing.

You'll want to select a model that has a low-volume preset knob. I use the Morley basic model. You press the pedal to the floor and set your lead at the amp, then rock the pedal all the way back and use the pedal's preset knob to adjust your rhythm (low) level. It's simpler than it sounds. The instructions come with it.

When playing rhythm have the pedal all the way back in its quietest position, and for leads stomp it full forward.

[John McGann]

You might try thegearpage.net which has a great section on effects.

There are a lot of options for clean boost- some will effect the EQ, like the Klon Centaur; others are "transparent" like the Catalinbread Serrano Picaso...

[Steve L]

You could also get a compressor pedal and bump up the output to the level of your solo. It will affect the touch and sound of your playing, but you might like it a lot. Boss makes a good one or the re-issued MXR Dyna- Comps work well too.

[megamafro]

Cheers for all your replys, you are all very accomodating here, what a nice site :)

I have secured a volume pedal for band prac tonight, so shall let you know how I get on with it. I also like the idea of compression, and a seperate pre amp. I think I could become a bit of a gear junkie, people already think I'm mad playing though a Marshall TSL.

My two main mandolins are the Michael Kelly Legacy Delux, and the Michael Kelly Dragonfly Flame

I love them both, but the legacy D is getting a little beaten now, I do give them a good thrashing. Unfortunately though the mandolin isn't very popular over here in England, so its hard to try out a load of instruments before you buy.

[Tim2723]

[QUOTE=megamafro;703680] I love them both, but the legacy D is getting a little beaten now, I do give them a good thrashing. QUOTE]

Ah, a kindred spirit at last!

[Mike Bunting]

http://www.seymourduncan.com/products/stompboxes/sfx01_pickup_bo/
The Seymour Duncan SFX01 pickup booster works well for me, it's a stompbox with a presettable boost.

[JeffD]

[QUOTE=megamafro;703680] I love them both, but the legacy D is getting a little beaten now, I do give them a good thrashing. QUOTE]

Ah, a kindred spirit at last!

:)):))

[JeffD]

Hi Guys

I'm pretty new here, so please be gentle.


Wasn't too bad, was it.

The friendliness and freely given expertise on this site is amazing.

[Tim2723]

... the mandolin isn't very popular over here in England, so its hard to try out a load of instruments before you buy.

From one mandolin thrasher to another, let me congratulate you on your choice of Michael Kelly acoustic-electrics. While there are other models available, the MK gives a great performance for an instrument in its price range. I've thrashed my way through two of them in three years, but they're affordable enough for it.

When next you find yourself in the market, do take a look at the Ovation MM-68. It has much more powerful, adaptable electronics, can be driven at extreme volume without resorting to solid body mandolins, and for just a little more than the MKs, is practically bullet-proof for those like us.

BTW, loved the clips of your band. Right up my alley!

[MixedNutsMandoPlayer]

I hope your trial with the volume pedal was a success.

I personally went with an EQ pedal.

Why....with the boost on for leads there is the potential for feedback depending on your set up and room (especially on jam nights where set up can be kind of random depending on who shows up and when).

I can use the eq settings to help deal with feedback issues and can set it for the particular room during sound check/ setup/or during the evening. It does colour my tone a bit however I was happy with the trade off of feedback control for a slight tone degradation.

Good luck with your search for a solution.

[Daniel Nestlerode]

There are companies out there that make gain boosters as effects pedals.

But I like using a Boss SD-1 Super Overdrive for a boost. Just crank up the level and crank down the drive. Stepping on the pedal will boost your volume to the level setting you've created on the level dial. Step on it again and it all goes back to the previous volume.

Using the SD-1 is quicker than a volume pedal.

Daniel

[Tim2723]

Good point Daniel. The reason to select a volume pedal with a low-volume preset knob is also to make fast, sure transitions. Either way, you want to be quick about it.

[megamafro]

Well i tried the volume pedal last night, its a cheep Zoom volume pedal.
Its not for me, the volume of it goes from one extreeme to the other. With the volume control up full on the pedal, but the rocker all the way back it was far too quiet, and then rocked forward for the boost it blows your ears out.

Time to try another road I feel.

Also glad to see that there are other mandolin players out there who thrash their beasts. However it has been said before that i dont just thrash it, I beat the Sh*te out of it :)

http://img200.imageshack.us/img200/402/thrashmandolin.jpg

[Mike Bunting]

That's why I like "http://www.seymourduncan.com/product...x01_pickup_bo/
The Seymour Duncan SFX01 pickup booster works well for me, it's a stompbox with a presettable boost."

[megamafro]

When next you find yourself in the market, do take a look at the Ovation MM-68. It has much more powerful, adaptable electronics, can be driven at extreme volume without resorting to solid body mandolins, and for just a little more than the MKs, is practically bullet-proof for those like us.

BTW, loved the clips of your band. Right up my alley!

I dont really like the look of the Ovations. I like my mandolin to look like a mandolin. I love the scrolls and the F holes and just the beauty in looking at the mandolin. I think the Ovation looks like a small acoustic guitar. I guess I really should play one first before I cast my judgement over it.

And thanks for listening to my band, glad you enjoyed the tunes :)

[Tim2723]

I dont really like the look of the Ovations. I like my mandolin to look like a mandolin. I love the scrolls and the F holes and just the beauty in looking at the mandolin. I think the Ovation looks like a small acoustic guitar. I guess I really should play one first before I cast my judgement over it.

And thanks for listening to my band, glad you enjoyed the tunes :)

Yeah, I know what you mean. I went from an Ovation, to an MK, to another MK, to another Ovation. The MM-68 has a lot of useful technology, but the F-5 design is beautiful. It's a sculpture that plays music.

[Daniel Nestlerode]

Thrash an acoustic? Heaven's no. :)
I bought two electric solid body mandolins to run through the amp precisely because my F5 was getting beaten up.

Daniel

[megamafro]

I bought a solid body mandolin and hated it. It didnt sound like a mandolin

[Ronnie L]

I can also reccomend using an eq pedal. I have an ancient Yamaha Tone Booster from my guitar player days which does the same job. I tried using my Fulltone fulldrive mk2 but it kept getting too much attention ! I really prefer to use a condensor mike and get closer for lead, but its just so unworkable at smaller gigs due to proximity feedback.

[Rick Cadger]

Hey megamafro.

I'm a UK mando abuser and I play in a fairly eccentric band. Er... When I speak of mandolin abuse however, my qualifications don't come close to Tim's. Keep you mandolins away from him.

Anyway, talking of Tim, his suggestions of volume or EQ pedals are great, simple solutions. Personally I use a Behringer 7 band EQ pedal (the Boss version is better if you have the money - I didn't) for this very purpose. The volume pedal may be an even better option as it'd give a bit more of a variable range.

My real preference is to play into a mic so I can vary volume by moving into and off mic, but sometimes a pickup is the only practical way to go.

I'm off to check out your band's site :)

[megamafro]

Haha, our music is pretty energetic, I bounce about the stage far too much to be able to play into a mic.

I am watching a few pedals on ebay at the moment :)

[Tim2723]

Yeah, as nice as mics are for tone quality, even the clip-on mics are right out for this application. Set one foot too close to a speaker and you're in trouble.

What pedals are you watching? The reason I recommend a volume pedal of the Morley sort is that they are simple, cheap, rugged, and will do exactly what you're after. They don't have a pre-amp circuit to change your signal. There's a battery, but it only runs the optical sensor and an "I'm OK" LED. Change it every five years. With a proper volume pedal it's just as if you set your Marshall's volume for lead level, and then reached back and turned it down a notch for rhythm. You just do it conventiently with your foot. Despite your earlier unsatisfying experience, I really think you should explore the idea more. That cheap Zoom pedal was not at all a fair test. If you can get a Morely, by all means do. They are the most rugged out there, IMHO. You can kill a chicken with it.

[mandroid]

~:>~:>~:>~:>~:>

[Ransome]

I play in an alt.country band and use my mando on a few songs (more and more each day really, bye guitar and lap steel) and I have the need to boost my MK through my AC15. I have a T-Rex Moller which works for me as I need the drive side of the pedal, too. Here are a few other options...

*Xotic RC Booster: It's completely transparent, but pretty versatile with active, (indented at neutral,) treble and bass, plus a drive knob. It's a not an overdrive pedal, it's a clean boost. But what's so great about it is you can either set it for a neutral tone, compensate for a room you're playing in, a different guitar, or use the knobs to get a treble boost sound, or cut them both for a cool mid-boost sound. Beautifully made.
Best bang-for-the-buck at around $185.

*Robert Keeley Katana Boost: Really simple. One knob for boost. Very transparent, and well built. $200

*Creation Audio Labs MK.4.23 Boost: Also incredibly transparent, with 24 dB of boost. Very nice. $220.

Ran$ome

[Jim]

I would go with a compressor with the level bumped a bit for the solo. Another option is a different volume control on your instrument. I put a push pull volume knob on an electric guitar with bypass wired into the inside so when I played rhythm I would have the volume set on 7 or 8 and when I wanted boost I would push in on the knob and have full volume then when the break was over I'd pull it back out and be at the volume I was at before. There is a slight tone change but in a good way for a solo.

[Tim2723]

Morley EOV pedal, $69.99. Chicken not included.

But seriously, one problem I've encountered with many pre-amp pedals is that they are designed for guitar. I'm not an expert in it, but I've tried really hard over the years to force fit guitar technology to a mandolin. I haven't always had the best luck with it. Anything works with a volume pedal.

[250sc]

All of these options should work. If you use a volume pedal you can adjust the amount of boost on the fly. Need a bit more....bring your toe down a bit more, but you have to pay attention to how far. If you use an EQ, Preamp, compressor or anything else to you set the level of boose, hit the pedal and your volume goes up the pre-set amount but if you need more or less boost you have to reach down and adjust it.

Both work fine and each has it's limitation.

Megamafro wrote:

"Well i tried the volume pedal last night, its a cheep Zoom volume pedal.
Its not for me, the volume of it goes from one extreeme to the other. With the volume control up full on the pedal, but the rocker all the way back it was far too quiet, and then rocked forward for the boost it blows your ears out."

LOL. You have to practice with it like you practiced the rock and roll stance in your picture. There are pedal positions between all the way up and all the way down.

[Jim Nollman]

I don't like most solid body sound either. Too much click tick. You might try the Godin A-8. It has good onboard electronics for tweaking the tone as you go. I know many of them need a severe setup upon purchase, (mine did) but once done they are solid. The Godin's got a great jingly sound when amplified, kind of like the Rickenbacker of the mandolin world. I play mine through a Fishman Loudbox acoustic amp which is quite small and with lots of bells and whistles for input and output. I think the Godin would sound better through your Marshall stack.

[Tim2723]

LOL. You have to practice with it like you practiced the rock and roll stance in your picture. There are pedal positions between all the way up and all the way down.

This is just why he shouldn't judge volume pedals too harshly based on that one try. A pedal with a properly done minimum volume control doesn't have that problem. With the control set correctly, there can be a very small increment between full-on and full-off. That Zoom pedal was a bad experience just waiting to happen. I'm 99% sure I know the pedal he used, and it belongs in the rubbish bin. It's the wrong tool and not very good at that.

EDIT: I shouldn't have suggested that the pedal has a 'problem', it doesn't. Sorry. It's just the wrong kind for the application. It will do the job, but not in the way it needs to be done in this case. There are other, more applicable choices.

[foldedpath]

Good point Daniel. The reason to select a volume pedal with a low-volume preset knob is also to make fast, sure transitions. Either way, you want to be quick about it.

One reason I like volume pedals for this instead of a one-shot boost pedal, is that you have a safety net if you miss your cue, and don't hit the switch right on time for a solo. A volume pedal lets you sneak up on the boost, instead of making it so obvious that you missed your cue. :grin:

Been there, done that, back with Midi tube preamp presets in the bad old electric guitar days.

Of course it's not that noticeable if the band is playing with good dynamics, and you only need a few db boost instead of a big jump to climb on top of the rest of the band. Or if you have perfect timing, which I don't always have. :)

[Tim2723]

FP, that's another good point. During my tenure as a church organist (did I ever tell you guys about that, or was that on another forum?) I learned all about using the dynamics pedals to cover transitions while flipping switches. Ever see a Church organ up close? Switch junkie's paradise! Miss the cue and everybody knows it! :whistling:

[Steve L]

So Tim, how long would it take you to destroy an organ and was that about the time you'd decide to find a new parish?

[Tim2723]

It was exactly five years to the day if you must know. After that they gave me a wristwatch and sent me on my way. I met up with an Irish band, got divorced, lost my job as a polymer chemist when the factory went under, and started playing mandolin full time. Fun life. But I digress....

[Coffeecup]

I was having an issue of the solo work I was playing being drowned out by the other instruments, so wanted a boost for playing the fiddly bits.


Many thanks
Mafro


There's something I'm obviously missing here. So far none of the posts have enlightened me. If you are playing solo who is drowning you out? :grin:



defintions from a dictionary-

solo

Noun
pl -los
1. a piece of music or section of a piece of music for one performer: a trumpet solo
2. any performance by an individual without assistance

Adjective
1. performed by an individual without assistance: a solo dance
2. Also: (solo whist) a card game in which each person plays on his or her own

Adverb
by oneself; alone: to fly solo across the Atlantic [Latin solus alone]
soloist n

[Martian]

megamafro, if you have guitar centers there, go plug in and try them all. coffeecup,that is the problem with electric music over acc. if you do not have a sound man running a 48 ch. board to tweak everyones everything. It is in much better control( IMO only )where it is accoustic with 4-5 band members and not 4-5 stars. I have played with the later in acc. and elec. music and it's just a fight , but I do like both.