A Good Intermediate Mandolin

[O'Cearnaigh]

Hello everyone, I've been playing mandolin for a year+ now and I believe it is time for a better instrument than what I've got (Kentucky 150 model with no tuss rod) It has come down to two instruments: an Ashbury AM-50 here (http://www.hobgoblin-usa.com/local/product.php?ID=GR3124N) and a Michael Kelly AO here (http://www.folkmusician.com/Michael-Kelly-AO-Oval-Hole-Mandolin/productinfo/MK-AO/) Any input on how these two match up, or don't, is much appreciated!

-Dan

[mrmando]

I don't think either of these would be that much of an improvement over the Kentucky. Save your pennies for an Eastman or a Big Muddy. Or an old Flatiron.

[Steve Ostrander]

How about a Kentucky km505? Or an Eastman md505?

[stratton7584]

Maybe you can keep saving and buy you a breedlove of brand new they are 1000 dollars but i bet you can find it alot cheaper used.i have a breedlove kf and it has an amazing sound as do all breedloves.

[stratton7584]

I meant a breedlove ko. Sorry.:)

[Steve L]

Dan, are you in the UK? I seem to think Ashbury is a brand sold over there and not here in the states. I'd see if you can get in touch with Trevor at the Acoustic Music Company and get his advice on upgrades in your price range.

[O'Cearnaigh]

Dan, are you in the UK? I seem to think Ashbury is a brand sold over there and not here in the states. I'd see if you can get in touch with Trevor at the Acoustic Music Company and get his advice on upgrades in your price range.

Nope, I live in the states (WV, hello & thanks to stratton7584) I was looking at the Ashburys sold by Hobgoblin Music in MN. I was also looking hard at an Eastman MD504. I'm at a bit of a dilemma I suppose; between a lower priced instrument (Ashbury) that while saving me some cash, might not be much better than what I have; the Michael Kelly that I've heard is a good instrument for the money but the difference in price between it and the Eastman is only around $130. I should probably say that I'm a college student and can't really afford to drop $1000+ on an instrument at the moment. The Eastman would be at the very tip top of my price range. Thanks for the advice everyone.

[Steve L]

Eastman ovals turn up used here on a pretty regular basis. This is a pretty safe place to buy. I would watch the classifieds and you should be able to snag one at a pretty good price.

[mrmando]

Yes, speaking from experience, you can get a used Eastman for $600 or thereabouts.

[Tim2723]

Hi Dan and welcome!

Is there a specific reason you're looking to upgrade after only a year? You mentioned the lack of truss rod. Has your Kentucky's neck gone haywire?

I'm a big Michael Kelly fan, but unless your instrument is really holding you back my advice would be to keep playing and practicing, have lots of fun with the Kentucky, put the money toward your school needs, get your degree, then forget about small upgrades and buy a really top rate instrument as your reward. Mandolins come and go, but an education is forever.

[Laird]

I also started with a used Kentucky 150, then saved up and moved to a used Eastman 515, which is a great improvement. For under $1000, I'm not sure you can beat it. Someday my next step will be a Collings, but the Eastman's going to get me through a kid or two, I imagine.

[Jill McAuley]

Keep your eye out on the classifieds here - a few weeks ago someone posted an Arches flat top for $400, and Eastmans come up on a regular basis too. I wouldn't go for the Ashbury - you won't be moving up with that one.

Cheers,
Jill

[tburcham]

I agree with Stratten...Breedlove for the money (or a lot more money) is hard to beat!

[allenhopkins]

Q: Should I get my next ham sandwich with Swiss or provolone cheese?

A: You should save up until you can order filet mignon.

A Breedlove would cost approximately twice what the OP intends to pay. He says he's a college student and can't spend $1K on a mandolin. What he'd like to know is, Ashbury OR Michael Kelly OR perhaps spend a bit more on an Eastman? He'd probably be really happy with a Gibson F-5L, but let's try to keep our advice somewhat tied to the parameters of the question, OK?

Based on the questions asked, I'd say, either a better Kentucky, or an Eastman. At the very top end of the range, a used Mid-Mo/Big Muddy, if one's available.

[mandroid]

Play the one you have and learn more stuff on it , I say.. don't worry about it for a while,
give it a few more years.. improve the player.. lessons to play better is a good thing to shop for if the truth be known...

[Jill McAuley]

NFI on my part, but I just noticed that there's a used Eastman 504 due in at cafe sponsers The Mandolin Store - check out the link below:

www.themandolinstore.com/scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=8962


Cheers,
Jill

[Eric F.]

Dan, you might want to keep your eye on this link: http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/rhaus1999

Saga routinely offers its blemished instruments on eBay at reduced prices and seems quite willing to accept low offers. After Jim MacDaniel pointed it out recently, a few people here scored ridiculously good deals on mandolins. There's not much there right now, but maybe the next shipment from China will hit rough seas or something and they'll post a bunch more cosmetically challenged instruments. Also, do not be afraid of buying used. A mandolin is not a car.

[Sam Bush Fan!]

get a breedlove they are great.

[Ryk]

Jill just found your mandolin.

Given what you've said are your parameters and situation ... i'ld be all over that like white on rice.

Ryk

[Jim MacDaniel]

At the very top end of the range, a used Mid-Mo/Big Muddy, if one's available.

But aren't you recommending a Pastrami on Rye? ;)

[Rob Gerety]

Jill just found your mandolin.

Given what you've said are your parameters and situation ... i'ld be all over that like white on rice.

Ryk

Me too. Nice mando, good price. That one will hold you for a good long time. I'm definitely in the buy used camp. Much better to buy used in most cases.

[Lefty Luthier]

Few, if any, of the volume produced mandolins can compare to those built by any number of AMERICAN luthiers. Many of us can produce an exquisite instrument, without tons of decoration, for under $2,000. Why waste your money on junk that will be outgrown in a year when you can get quality for so little more?

[Capt. E]

If you want an oval hole an Eastman 504 for $399 is very good indeed. If you want ff holes, then I would go with a Kentucky 505.

[Eric F.]

Few, if any, of the volume produced mandolins can compare to those built by any number of AMERICAN luthiers. Many of us can produce an exquisite instrument, without tons of decoration, for under $2,000. Why waste your money on junk that will be outgrown in a year when you can get quality for so little more?

Because he doesn't have the money? Also, while a KM-505 is not going to win a battle with a good hand-built instrument, it's not a piece of junk. Neither is an Eastman. Either one should serve a new player on a budget quite well.

[Laird]

Few, if any, of the volume produced mandolins can compare to those built by any number of AMERICAN luthiers. Many of us can produce an exquisite instrument, without tons of decoration, for under $2,000. Why waste your money on junk that will be outgrown in a year when you can get quality for so little more?

Yikes! The difference between $500 and $2000 (or even $1500) is huge to a college student. Also, I wouldn't call an Eastman or Kentucky 505 "junk."

[stratton7584]

http://cgi.ebay.com/KENTUCKY-KM-630-Mandolin-w-Case-Excellent-Condition_W0QQitemZ330352970861QQcmdZViewItemQQptZ LH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item4cea924c6d&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14. i just fount this one on ebay its very nice!!

[Lefty Luthier]

Yikes! The difference between $500 and $2000 (or even $1500) is huge to a college student. Also, I wouldn't call an Eastman or Kentucky 505 "junk."

I'm not sure about Eastman but I have taken several Kentucky instruments apart for their unlucky owners and you would be appalled at what is hidden within. I use the term Junk accurately. While I agree that there is a bit of difference between $500 and $2,000, as an investment, you can't beat the mandolins built by competent luthiers when it comes to resale value. An instrument that I built in 1972 and sold for $1,000 recently changed hands for $8,200. Not bad as an investment that you can enjoy every day.

[stratton7584]

well i have had my kentucky for many years now and it is by far not junk!

[allenhopkins]

Seriously, guys and gals, ya might wanta go back and read the OP's posts. He's looking to upgrade to an "intermediate" mandolin, he's a college student who can't spend "$1000+" on an instrument, so could we all be a bit real about what's his best choice? Used Eastman sounds good to me; all-solid Kentucky ditto; possible used Mid-Mo/Big Muddy -- something along those lines.

Some of the info acquired while working part-time selling instruments a few (well, many) years ago: when trying out and comparing possible purchases, play only instruments you can afford to buy. Pull down that F-5 off the wall, and all of a sudden none of the Rovers and Kentuckies and MK's seem worth buying. There are those (yeah, and some of 'em have posted here) who say, "That proves that you shouldn't buy anything, but go home and scrimp and save for another ten years until you can afford that F-5." To which I reply, "Horse hockey! You're giving up a decade of playing a better mandolin than the one you have now, just to 'skip a couple grades' up to a top-line instrument. Better to get the next step up, and have it to encourage your improvement and provide you with better sound and playability than you have."

I'm sure, if the OP had $2K to invest, one of our wonderful AMERICAN (cue Sousa's Stars and Stripes Forever in the background) luthiers could provide a lovely hand-built example of domestic craftspersonship. But he doesn't. Let's not stand between him and a decent import instrument that will allow continued musical development and hours of enjoyment.

[Jim MacDaniel]

Few, if any, of the volume produced mandolins can compare to those built by any number of AMERICAN luthiers. Many of us can produce an exquisite instrument, without tons of decoration, for under $2,000. Why waste your money on junk that will be outgrown in a year when you can get quality for so little more?

I agree you on the value of a quality luthier-made instrument, but that paragraph is wrong on so many other levels:

First of all, your first generalization should also apply to the instruments built by many a luthier located all over the globe.

Second of all, the OP already stated that the swing from a $500 pricepoint to even a $1000 price tag is more than he can afford at this time.

Thirdly, if one gets utility, enjoyment, and skill improvement out of a Kentucky, Eastman, or other factory import, then it is not a waste of money. (This is especially true if buying used for a fair price, as it can be sold for a similar price since a previous owner already paid for its initial depreciation.)

Finally, there are many a seasoned player who has kept such an instrument for years (or decades) after upgrading to a luthier-built instrument, since A, they were still fun to play, and B, they continue to serve them well as a satisfying traveler/campfire/office/loaner/beater instrument. So they don't appear to be junk in their eyes, if they decided to hang on to them and continue to play them.

[Douglas McMullin]

I second the suggestion for a good used or even new Eastman or higher model Kentucky. Despite the OP's criteria, I think the suggestions for holding out and saving for another level or two up are also good suggestions. The reality is that peoples opinions are not limited to cookie cutter responses that might fit into how a poster might be thinking of something. I think all of the suggestions are good, and the OP is free to consider the suggestions for holding out for something better or he/she can simply read on. No harm done and different thoughts on the subject flow freely.

[stratton7584]

Well the kentucky km 630 that I found for sale on ebay is only up to $312.00 right now. That meets his guidlines and the 630 is a pretty good instrument.

I know how he is feeling, I too was in college once and could'nt afford an American made mandolin so I bought a few foriegn made mandolins (wich suited me quite well I might add) and when I graduated college and got a job I saved up and bought my breedlove kf.

[Rick Cadger]

I'm not sure about Eastman but I have taken several Kentucky instruments apart for their unlucky owners and you would be appalled at what is hidden within. I use the term Junk accurately. While I agree that there is a bit of difference between $500 and $2,000, as an investment, you can't beat the mandolins built by competent luthiers when it comes to resale value. An instrument that I built in 1972 and sold for $1,000 recently changed hands for $8,200. Not bad as an investment that you can enjoy every day.

Could be there are one or two "luthier-built" mandos out there that have a secret or two to hide. Not all who call themselves luthiers are as competent as they'd like to think.

As an occasional hobby builder I have always had a keen curiosity regarding the construction of the mandolins I've owned and I always take a good look inside. With the current generation of Chinese mandolins (Kentucky and Eastman) I've never seen worse than a bit of untidied glue squeeze-out and maybe the occasional slightly indelicate braces and tone bars. Overall construction, fit and finish is generally very good. Factory set-up, on the other hand, is usually awful.

These appalling things you've seen inside Kentuckys... Photos please or, as the saying goes, it didn't happen. Were these the current, vastly improved Kentucky models such as the 1000 or the 505 recommended earlier in the thread? I've played both and they are good mass-produced instruments - in fact, IMHO, spectacular instruments for the price. Dealers will be the first to admit that there were earlier periods of inferior quality, but the current crop is good stuff.

Instead of indiscriminately dissing the perfectly serviceable instruments that many Cafe members are happy to play, while promoting your own kind of business, why not spend more time reading the OP's posts and making sure your responses address the needs clearly outlined therein?

If the OP can stretch to the price of a Kentucky KM-505 (and can check it out in person before buying) I would add my recommendation for that as a candidate.

[Rick Cadger]

[...] I'm sure, if the OP had $2K to invest, one of our wonderful AMERICAN (cue Sousa's Stars and Stripes Forever in the background) luthiers could provide a lovely hand-built example of domestic craftspersonship. But he doesn't. Let's not stand between him and a decent import instrument that will allow continued musical development and hours of enjoyment.

Words of wit and wisdom. :cool:

[astroboy]

Then there's this pretty looking Eastman posted this AM:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Eastman-MD505-Mandolin-EXCELLENT-condition-and-Sound_W0QQitemZ150367474673QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_D efaultDomain_0

... though all eBay cautions should apply.

[O'Cearnaigh]

NFI on my part, but I just noticed that there's a used Eastman 504 due in at cafe sponsers The Mandolin Store - check out the link below:

www.themandolinstore.com/scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=8962


Cheers,
Jill

Jill, thanks for that link but it seems as if someone has snagged it! I will just keep an eye on the classifieds and ebay for what I'm looking for.

Everyone else; Thanks for all the constructive and also contrasting advice. I've been on message boards in the past where newcomers aren't exactly welcomed and have a tendancy to be very cliqueish on the part of the established members. So far I haven't found any evidence of that sort of attitude here. I realize my playing has some imperfections (then it wouldn't be any fun right!!) and the problems with my current intrument aren't insurmountable, mostly small stuff like cranky tuners etc. The worst thing that happened was when I changed the strings for the first time the nut fell off completely and I had to superglue it back on! I'd give a million dollars to have a picture of my face as it was happening! :)) I've decided not to go rush out and buy a new instrument at the moment, but as I said my ear is to the earth on it however.

A little background info on myself, I played guitar/bass/drums in punk rock bands most of my teen years and into my early twentys. With all that behind me, I picked up my dads old mandolin (the 150) that he never played and wore notches in the fret lines. I've always loved Trad Irish music from since I was a kid and attempt to play this style, as well as a few old-time tunes, on the mando. I've never had a standard lesson but I've been working from a book "Irish Mandolin Playing" by Philip J. Berthoud. All this talk...I'm off now to :mandosmiley:

cheers
-Dan

[astroboy]

drat. repeat. doh!

[Jim]

I'd have to recomend a Rover RM 75. Got mine used for $350.

[Tim2723]

Dan, despite any and all contrasting opinions, I'm absolutely sure that all the members welcome you here!

Having said that, since you've decided to keep your mandolin I have to say:

"HA HA!! Mandroid and I win!!!!"

But seriously, welcome to the Cafe! Hang out with us an have a ball. We'll even give you some hints on dealing with those cranky tuners.

[Jill McAuley]

A little background info on myself, I played guitar/bass/drums in punk rock bands most of my teen years and into my early twentys. With all that behind me, I picked up my dads old mandolin (the 150) that he never played and wore notches in the fret lines. I've always loved Trad Irish music from since I was a kid and attempt to play this style, as well as a few old-time tunes, on the mando. I've never had a standard lesson but I've been working from a book "Irish Mandolin Playing" by Philip J. Berthoud. All this talk...I'm off now to :mandosmiley:

cheers
-Dan


Dan,
Welcome to the forum from another punk musician in a past life/nowadays a player of Irish trad music! I played guitar and drums in punk bands and still occasionally can be found behind a drumkit playing with a friend's band.

Best of luck with your mandolin search!

Cheers,
Jill

[Jim MacDaniel]

Hey Dan -- as you are into ITM, one more inexpensive mandolin to think about is one of Kentucky's new oval hole models (KM-171, 172, or 174). I know they are "ham and havarti" to your "ham and swiss/provolone" question, and from a construction and features point of view it is sort of a parallel move from your 150, but Kentucky did a great job in designing this one. It has a nice, classic oval hole sound without breaking the bank; it's no Ajr or Snakehead mind you, but its a great performer for only ~$275 new. I've owned two since they were introduced, and sold the first one, a KM-171, since I preferred the amber topped Km-172 -- otherwise they were identical performers. (I also got great deals on both, the first as a used one for $150, and the second as a blem from the link Eric posted in post # 17, also for $150.)

[Matt DeBlass]

Dan, I too started out playing drums in punk and hard rock bands, and now play Irish music semi-professionally, with a few gigs each month. I've been mandolining (is that a verb? It is now) for a few months and using my cheapie Rover RM35S for the more uptempo songs and to play the handful of fiddle tunes I know, no complaints from the audience yet.
One of the (many) upsides of playing Celtic mandolin is that you shouldn't feel compelled to get an F-style mandolin, and can do quite nicely with a flat-top, oval hole instrument, which tend to be much less expensive. Personally, I'm hoping to save up for a Mid-Mo/Big Muddy someday soon, although I'm in a tough financial spot myself (I'm a laid off journalist, still trying to figure out what I can do next, career-wise).