Is it ok to hate bluegrass yet still play the mandolin?

[makemeasammich]

I absolutely loathe bluegrass. In my opinion, it's the most repetitive, shallowest genre of music out there. This is not meant to downplay the skill it take to be a bluegrass musician, for that is beyond argument. I just can't stand the sound of it. Furthermore, I must admit, rather shamefully, that I don't picture it as a cool genre of music. I would never want to be seen playing it.

What I want to know is whether or not it's possible for a mandolinist to fit in with other genres of music, such as blues, rock, even pop. It seems to me that the mandolin is used almost exclusively for country/cultural (Celtic, Scottish, etc.) music. When I get older, I want to play my mandy in a full scale band that doesn't treat it as a novelty. However, as of yet, I haven't seen a single band that would giver me any hope as to ever seeing this happen. Is this because the mandolin isn't capable of what I'm describing, or is it because it simply hasn't been attempted?

[Poohblah]

What I want to know is whether or not it's possible for a mandolinist to fit in with other genres of music, such as blues, rock, even pop. It seems to me that the mandolin is used almost exclusively for country/cultural (Celtic, Scottish, etc.) music....

listen to some Led Zeppelin... they make good use of the mando.

so answer is of course

[catmandu2]

Furthermore, I must admit, rather shamefully, that I don't picture it as a cool genre of music. I would never want to be seen playing it.


lol. It is very cool...at least to the bluegrassers. ;)

In answer to your question, of course, yes. The mando-family is extremely versatile. Check into various ethnic forms (of which bluegrass is but one); lots of opportunity for mandos. Also, since mando is bluegrass's signature instrument, a lot of people will be asking you to play BG during your lifetime. Perhaps think about another instrument: fiddle and CBOM. Fiddle is one of the most prevalent instruments in music: more opportunities to exploit in many styles with less emphasis on rockin-rhythmic genres like BG. I'm not a grasser perse, and I tend to play mandola and CBOM more than mando. And of course fiddle..

[JGWoods]

The mandolin can play all types of music- Jazz, classical, Celtic, even Bluegrass. I have played mandolin for years without Bluegrass. It's not my favorite type of music but once you "hate" it and shut yourself off from it you lose out on some really creative picking. I can't be bothered with hating it.

[Bob DeVellis]

It's perfectly okay to loathe bluegrass and love mandolin. Whether it's okay to loathe bluegrass and survive on the Cafe' is another question entirely.

[CES]

The mandolin is a little limited by its scale, but, truly, the sky's the limit. Youtube Sam Bush...in addition to excellent newgrass/bluegrass/jazz he plays some flat NASTY slide/blues mando and some pretty smokin' electric rock mando (or check him out on woodsongs). Youtube Dawg (more newgrass and jazz, but he can play it all). Youtube Chris Thile--there are frequently heated debates about whether he should be mentioned in the list of "best bluegrass mando-heads," though he's clearly an exceptional player. Tom Petty and the heartbreakers use a fair amt of mando, and many classic rock bands used mando with reasonable frequency as well. And, of course, everyone has heard Losing my Religion and Maggie May whether they realize it or not.

If you learn to play it well, you'll be able to make it work for whatever you choose. That said, there are some things the mandolin excels at that make it ideal for BG/Celtic/etc, and much of the beginner material out there is geared towards these genres. I'll admit to loving BG and thinking it's cool, esp after sitting in on a little jam with a young band last spring and just being amazed at their musicianship, but it's only a portion of what I listen to, and I didn't always like it as much as I do now...I've got everything ranging from country to BG to old time to contemporary Christian/Christian rock to jazz to alternative (the good stuff from the 90s, like Primus and young RHCP/Jane's Addiction/etc) to classic rock to heavy rock/metal, and even a little classical and rap. I'm also becoming more of a fan of good acoustic music that doesn't necessarily fall into those genres (see Keller Williams, the Wiyos, Avett Bros)...

I would have to argue that current pop/techno/rap border on being more shallow and repetetive, but that's for another thread :grin:. Bottom line is, play what you want. If you find that mando's not for you there a lots of other instruments out there to choose from. But, someday you'll be old like me, and who knows what you'll like then.
:popcorn:~o)

[CES]

And, dude, get yourself some overalls...then you'll find yourself loving Red Man, coon hounds, AND bluegrass, and it won't be an issue!
:)):)):))

[mandroid]

All the same notes as any other fretted stringed instruments, now, if the other players you have around are not open minded enough to let you even sit in , that is a separate issue .

Got enough material to start looking for others to play with you?

get the start of your own jam group .. around a big table in a public place that anyone can drop in.

[300win]

Wouldn't be a good thing to mention in my part of the country, but it's ok for anyone to loathe any kind of music. A band back in the '70's had a mandolin in it for every hit song they had, and they had quite a few, Seals and Croft, one of their biggest hits was a song called "Diamond Girl". Although I've been a Bluegrasser from day one, I also enjoyed their music as well other soft rock bands, and do enjoy any well played acoustic music, jazz, blues, stuff the Eagles did, James Taylor. But I was born, bred, and raised on Bill Monroe and the rest of us Bluegrass fiends.

[catmandu2]

Something tells me the OP is youthful and probably isn't going to go for Seals and Croft, JT, and all the "soft rock" stuff.. :sleepy:

How about Flogging Molly, Pogues, Waterboys, (Zepplin), Sam..Chris..

[Jim MacDaniel]

It's OK if you aren't into bluegrass -- many of us here are not, myself included -- but not wanting to play it because others might think you uncool is sort of a lame excuse. You are in charge of defining who you are as a musician -- and as a person for that matter -- and worrying about how others might perceive you will only limit your growth. Plus, you might be able to learn some tricks from bluegrassers that help out your rock playing.

Regarding your closing question, I think you can use a mandolin successfully in almost any genre of music...with the possible exception of Polka.

[MikeEdgerton]

It can be and should be used in polka music. :cool:

[catmandu2]

Irish polkas on mando are effective.

[EdSherry]

Tried-and-true but non-bluegrass applications of mandolin:

classical (lots)
Irish/Scottish/"Celtic"
Jazz (Jethro Burns, Don Stiernberg)
Western Swing (Tiny Moore, Johnny Gimble)
Cajun (Tommy Comeaux with Beausoleil, back before they got "big")

And yes, I've played polkas on a mandolin with my friend Art Peterson and his band "The Polka Cowboys"! "Jesse Polka" (aka "Jesujito en Chihuaha") is a fave.

[Poohblah]

Regarding your closing question, I think you can use a mandolin successfully in almost any genre of music...with the possible exception of Polka.

Now that you mention it, the mando would probably sound pretty out of place in a hip hop or techno band. Unless it was an electric, and then you could filter it easier.

[journeybear]

Is this because the mandolin isn't capable of what I'm describing, or is it because it simply hasn't been attempted?

You're limited only by your imagination and expertise. And, to some extent, your exposure to its capabilities. There's no reason an instrument often thought of as being suitable for one type of music can't be used for others. For examples, accordion was regulated mostly to polkas and European folk music* until Weird Al rocked it, flute was used mostly in classical and a bit in jazz until Ian Anderson rocked it, banjo was used mostly in country, folk, and bluegrass until Bela Fleck transformed it. It's my firm belief that mandolin is capable of a much wider range of genres than commonly assumed, and just needs the right person to make the world at large aware of this. I've long thought that's me, but it could be you. ;) I don't care, as long as it gets done! :grin:

Along with Ed Sherry's list, mandolin has been played in the blues (Yank Rachell, Carl Martin, Johnny Young, just to name a few). The point he and others (and I) are making is you should take a look and listen to what's already been done with the instrument beyond bluegrass.

Personally, I've played every genre I can on mandolin: rock, blues, folk, pop, swing, jug band, reggae, calypso, cajun, and even occasionally bluegrass and country. Go to my myspace page for some examples. I started playing in the late 60s and am very much a product of that era's freewheeling approach to music. I've adapted the instrument to my musical vision, not the other way around, though I'm all for using its unique characteristics. It's like any instrument - you play what you want on it, and find a way to make it work. Maybe you should get an electric. Metal strings vibrating over a magnetic pickup and put through effects and an amp sounds like rock and roll to me!:mandosmiley:

And as I am fond of saying, when people say something can't be done, it really means it just hasn't been done - yet!

*It shows up in cultures around the globe (thanks, sailors!), I'm just saying ...

[clintross]

I don't see why a mandolin can't fit in to any band. but I would encourage you to give bluegrass a chance

[stratton7584]

ok im sorry im sick to my stomach!!!

[Schlegel]

Mandolin works quite well for middle-eastern folk music/belly dance. You need an amp if you have multiple drummers, though.

[makemeasammich]

Thank you so much for your responses guys. And Mr. MacDaniel, you're absolutely correct. I am terribly self aware, and am trying desperately to get over it. I shouldn't worry about how others perceive my music since that greatly impedes innovation, and there would be no music without innovation. Of course, talking the talk is also one of my greatest skills. Walking the walk, eh...not so much.

[catmandu2]

Personally, when I encountered double-course stringed instruments, it compelled me to begin exploration of exotic musical forms, mostly from other continents, of which mandolin and "old-time" American string music is but a "modern" manifestation. Old-time is a good place to start, and it certainly needn't end there.

But really, as long as you're in the US, when people see you with your "little guitar" case, I guarantee you'll be asked to play Duelin Banjos more than once in your lifetime. The only way to avoid it is to assume playing of an instrument that isn't confused with a guitar (and even then, you'll still be asked..) My expectation is that if you're a mando player and play for people, you'll likely eventually have a few BG chops in your bag...like it or not. It's like playing tuba and being unwilling to blow a few "oom-pahs" now and again..

[KCrook]

I have been playing Bluegrass, Country, Rock etc., for years on guitar, and my take on Bluegrass is that is a ton of fun to play, can be fun to see live, but can be hard to listen to if you aren't a picker who appreciates the skill that you are hearing.

As for the flexibility of the Mando for other types of music, I have heard the Mandolin played respectably by folks playing blues, jazz, some classical, a bit of rock and lots of your more standard country. I think it is up to the player to play the instrument in the style that best suits him or her.

[Santiago]

I think it's fine that bluegrass music isn't your cup of tea, even on the cafe, but you do seem to have a strong contempt for the stuff, like you're dragging a whole lot of other cultural things into it. When I was a kid I hated opera because I thought it was all about stuck-up people being too formal about their music. But as I grew older I began to appreciate it. I'm still no opera buff, but I find when I try to understand an art form it's very seldom the evil I may have once projected it to be. It warms on you. Anything so many people take so doggedly to heart can't be (and isn't) all bad... but you don't have to love it.

[Chris Biorkman]

If you are that concerned about the 'cool' factor, you should just pick up a guitar.

[Steve L]

I don't listen to or play bluegrass at all. Just don't care for it. I really imprinted on the mandolin hearing it in Irish music, particularly Andy Irvine's playing.

[Mike Bromley]

It warms on you.

Warming ain't no part of nothin'....~:>:whistling::popcorn:

[Darren Bailey]

I first loved the mandolin, the bright sound is something very secial to me, a sound and feeling no other instrument creates. As a result I sterted listening to bluegrass because of so many great mandolin players. In genuinely can't imagine how anyone could hate bluegrass, the presence of so many mandlins alone is one thing, but the music is unpretencious, real, alive and human. It pretends to be nothing, is timeless, the most uplifting sound a piece of wood can make. And the gospel side of bluegrass is also full of spiritual outpourings that waken the heart. Listen some more.

[catmandu2]

That's pretty good: page 2, and no one has yet offered unequivocally "no."

[Steve L]

A lot of bluegrass music to me sounds like someone grinding lighbulbs in a blender. It's just not for everyone. A lot of the music I really love (bagpipes, unaccompanied Gaelic singing) sends a lot of people running for the door. Bluegrass is noble music and I respect the people who play it, but I just don't like it.

[makemeasammich]

I think I overstated my "hatred" for bluegrass. I dislike it, but I certainly don't loathe it. The thing that kills me about it, every single time, is the banjo. I know that's like saying I hate the peanut butter on a pb&j sandwich, but it's the truth. In fact, what I REALLY loathe is the banjo. And the high, nasally voices of some of the male singers. Take those out, and then we'll talk :)

[barney 59]

You obviously have an interest in music. You must have musical icons of some sort. So, what/who do you like? Blues? Try Rich Del Grosso- Traditional Jazz? There is Jethro Burns. Off the wall improvisational jazz -Andy Statman can go there and does. Rock and Roll? Plenty of examples from The Band to Led Zeppelin. Classical? That is covered as well. All folk idioms are covered , as you have noted. Rap or Hip hop?? Well, there I have no clue--Reggae? I have a pothead son who loves reggae and I'm not hearing mandolins there but I hear alot of reggae in Sam Bushes rhythm playing.
The early bluegrass players developed alot of techniques that are adaptable to other types of music and are worth studying even if you aren't taken with the style. If you listen to bluegrass and start at the beginning with the early proponents and progress forward you might develop some taste for it. Some, but not all bluegrass today appeals to me but alot of it has turned to just a series of hot lick trading and I sometimes feel as if it is more of a sport than music. If my entire knowledge of bluegrass was that I would list myself as a bluegrass hater. I've always been a sucker for a good ballad and I love jazz. There has developed a sizable discography of fine jazz mandolin playing over the last 30 years. The advent of good microphones and acoustic amplification has helped that I think because previously a mandolin would have had a more difficult time say playing with a horn section.
I guess you are drawn to the mandolin in some way but haven't heard anyone else play something you like? There is a nice collection of MP3 downloads available at, of all places...the Mandolin Cafe --lots of variety and free to boot!

[bhGreen]

Flatfoot 56 uses mandolin, bagpipe as well.

[catmandu2]

Listen some more.

Try taking some hallucinogenics first (not that I condone drug use :whistling:); this will help you break through. :)

[jim_n_virginia]

I absolutely loathe bluegrass. In my opinion, it's the most repetitive, shallowest genre of music out there.

If you don't like bluegrass YOU are NOT allowed to own a mandolin!!! :grin:

[journeybear]

Dang! :disbelief: I knew I should have read the manual! Sigh ... :( OK, where do I send it? :confused:

[Jim MacDaniel]

It can be and should be used in polka music. :cool:

I stand corrected: mandolin can be used in any and all genres, including polka -- now you have no excuse learn that thing and join as manny local jams as possible, even if you live in PA Hills.

[Payit Forward]

I think lutes have been around for 700 or 800 years. "Modern" mandolins have been around over 150 years. Bluegrass has been around for about 70 years.

I'd say there are millions of people who love(d) mandolins and never played bluegrass.

PS. My first introduction to playing the mandolin was leaning German songs from my grandfather -
mostly polkas.

[Jim MacDaniel]

(delete)

[mandopete]

A lot of bluegrass music to me sounds like someone grinding lighbulbs in a blender.

ROTFLMAO!

That's just Jimmy Martin, the rest is even worse.

:))

[Matt DeBlass]

Think outside the Chop!

Hey, I got into mando because of Celtic music (I sing loads of traditional stuff, but it's mostly Pogues and Flogging Molly on my iPod). While I can listen and enjoy, I'm not a true bluegrass fan. I do feel I can learn a lot about playing by picking up a few BG licks and listening to what the masters are doing though.

Of course, now that I've been playing a little while, I'm starting to see its potential for other genres. I've picked up a few acoustic rock songs, and noticed the Beatles and the Grateful Dead have a lot of perfect mando and vocal songs. I think it can take its proper place as a cool instrument for jam band music, and I personally believe it's nearly as versatile as an acoustic guitar.

But, what I'm really starting to feel, as I get a little better at it, is that the mandolin just begs for old-school blues tune. Just a thought, there's something about the sound and feel that make me want to learn some blues guitar licks on it.

[Paul Kotapish]

Hey makemeasammich,

What kind(s) of music do you really love? Maybe we can point you in the direction of some examples from those genres. There aren't too many types of music where the mandolin hasn't made at least a cameo appearance.

As for bluegrass, I love it, but I'm sympathetic to your alienation from it.

I grew up in Virginia in the '50s and '60s when there were great bluegrass bands everywhere, and I just didn't get it then. In fact, my high-school rock band (the "Yorkshires" for Pete's sake) used to do gigs where we shared the bill with great bluegrass bands such as the Country Gentlemen. Like you, I could recognize the skill of the players, but I couldn't get past the twang or the corn (or the cheesy uniforms in those days).

Then, in 1971 I had a conversion experience, the scales fell from my ears (punners be silent), and I GOT it--banjo, nasal (or high-and-lonesome, as we prefer to think of it) vocals, and all.

That next summer I attended my first bluegrass festival in Culpepper, Virginia--where I had the longest hair of any male on the premises by a good foot or two--and just got deeper and deeper into it. It was definitely not considered hip music in terms of the popular culture in those days, but part of my Damascus moment that year was realizing that pop culture as promoted by TV and radio and most print media was clueless about what was deep and timeless and really valuable.

That isn't to say that I stopped listening to rock and pop and jazz, but my ears and heart were opened up to all kinds of music from every corner of the globe--polkas, polskas, opera, Tuvan throat singing, uillean pipe tunes, mbira music, choro, cross-tuned crooked fiddle tunes, and . . . bluegrass. And I discovered that the hippest people I met were open to and interested in this stuff, too, and that the very best of the pop, rock, and jazz players often were, too.

I'm not trying to talk you into anything, but keep listening to the world around you. You might surprise yourself--and your friends--with what you discover.

[Giuliano]

You are getting some good advice here, from all over the world.:grin:

[makemeasammich]

Hey makemeasammich,

What kind(s) of music do you really love? Maybe we can point you in the direction of some examples from those genres. There aren't too many types of music where the mandolin hasn't made at least a cameo appearance.

As for bluegrass, I love it, but I'm sympathetic to your alienation from it.

I grew up in Virginia in the '50s and '60s when there were great bluegrass bands everywhere, and I just didn't get it then. In fact, my high-school rock band (the "Yorkshires" for Pete's sake) used to do gigs where we shared the bill with great bluegrass bands such as the Country Gentlemen. Like you, I could recognize the skill of the players, but I couldn't get past the twang or the corn (or the cheesy uniforms in those days).

Then, in 1971 I had a conversion experience, the scales fell from my ears (punners be silent), and I GOT it--banjo, nasal (or high-and-lonesome, as we prefer to think of it) vocals, and all.

That next summer I attended my first bluegrass festival in Culpepper, Virginia--where I had the longest hair of any male on the premises by a good foot or two--and just got deeper and deeper into it. It was definitely not considered hip music in terms of the popular culture in those days, but part of my Damascus moment that year was realizing that pop culture as promoted by TV and radio and most print media was clueless about what was deep and timeless and really valuable.

That isn't to say that I stopped listening to rock and pop and jazz, but my ears and heart were opened up to all kinds of music from every corner of the globe--polkas, polskas, opera, Tuvan throat singing, uillean pipe tunes, mbira music, choro, cross-tuned crooked fiddle tunes, and . . . bluegrass. And I discovered that the hippest people I met were open to and interested in this stuff, too, and that the very best of the pop, rock, and jazz players often were, too.

I'm not trying to talk you into anything, but keep listening to the world around you. You might surprise yourself--and your friends--with what you discover.

That was really well written. Thanks man. I'm starting to feel a little ashamed of myself lol :(

Anyway, what I really love is 60's/70's rock and Cat Stevens/Richard Thompson type folk music. I know both have included the mandolin, but never in a featured role, really (excluding Zep.)

[Matt DeBlass]

Cat Stevens and Richard Thompson type stuff work well.
Try "1952 Vincent Black Lightning" on the mandolin (you can play the basics with just the two-finger chords for D,G,A and Em, and build from there).

[Mike Bunting]

I think I overstated my "hatred" for bluegrass. I dislike it, but I certainly don't loathe it. The thing that kills me about it, every single time, is the banjo. I know that's like saying I hate the peanut butter on a pb&j sandwich, but it's the truth. In fact, what I REALLY loathe is the banjo. And the high, nasally voices of some of the male singers. Take those out, and then we'll talk :)
But then it ain't bluegrass, y'all! :)
Did someone say they hated the banjo but liked the bagpipes! :disbelief:

[Glassweb]

ain't no rules with music... just play your mandolin and enjoy it!

[Doug Hoople]

A couple of things you have to learn to live with eternally if you play the mandolin:

1) If you play mandolin, the first question most strangers will ask is whether you play bluegrass.
2) If you own an f-style mandolin, it will simply be assumed that you play bluegrass, and nobody will look up until the 3rd or 4th tune to see if you're along for the ride.

So just figure out a stock answer for 1). I always say "I would but I'm no good at it." And then I tell them what I DO play (Brazilian, swing, classical, blues, Celtic).

For 2), I'm trying to sell my F5, and my primary axe is now an asymmetric 2-point black face, and nobody (nobody!) assumes that I got it at a heartland barbershop for $150. More convincing still would be if you acquired either a Neapolitan bowlback or a Brazilian bandolim. They tend to make people think twice before jumping straight to bluegrass.

Still, if you play mandolin, you'll get asked about bluegrass. Kind of like accordion players who can't get away from people requesting polkas. Just a fact of life. Make your peace with it.

P.S., a solo-mandolin and voice remake of the whole 'Tea for the Tillerman' album, done right, could be huge... Huge.

[Matt DeBlass]

OK, it's not the featured instrument, but I'm pretty sure the kids like this kind of stuff these days. ;-)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qlym4eLWHFA

[Matt DeBlass]

wait, I didn't do that right, lemme try again

[barney 59]

Play the Bagpipes -Go to Jail! That's the Law!
Who did "Vincent Black Lightning? " "The Road Oilers" are a vintage Vincent Motorcycle club/oldtime string band that has been in the S.F. Bay area for years and who's motto is "It seems fast to us"--I wonder if they've heard that?

[wogster]

I absolutely loathe bluegrass. In my opinion, it's the most repetitive, shallowest genre of music out there. This is not meant to downplay the skill it take to be a bluegrass musician, for that is beyond argument. I just can't stand the sound of it. Furthermore, I must admit, rather shamefully, that I don't picture it as a cool genre of music. I would never want to be seen playing it.

What I want to know is whether or not it's possible for a mandolinist to fit in with other genres of music, such as blues, rock, even pop. It seems to me that the mandolin is used almost exclusively for country/cultural (Celtic, Scottish, etc.) music. When I get older, I want to play my mandy in a full scale band that doesn't treat it as a novelty. However, as of yet, I haven't seen a single band that would giver me any hope as to ever seeing this happen. Is this because the mandolin isn't capable of what I'm describing, or is it because it simply hasn't been attempted?

One must remember the mandolin itself was an offshoot of the Lute and evolved in the 17th century (1600s), so it predates bluegrass (1940's) by a considerable period. It can be used in many styles of music, as both a solo and accompanying instrument. In fact Antonio Vivaldi wrote a Mandolin concerto in 1725, RV425. Tone wise it's identical to the violin, so anything that can be played on a violin is open to mandolin interpretation. It's been heavily used in folk styles, because it's small, portable and not horribly difficult to play,

Like you I am not a huge fan of BG, I've listened to some and it all sounds the same. Although once you put restrictions on an instrument, saying it can't be used for one style of music or another, realise that somewhere, someone has already shattered that restriction. Ask this question, why CAN"T a mandolin be used in a rock or pop band? It's not a power loud instrument, although an electric mandolin with a full Marshall stack can still move the back wall of the room as easily as a similarly equipped electric guitar can....:grin:

[jim_n_virginia]

Dang! :disbelief: I knew I should have read the manual! Sigh ... :( OK, where do I send it? :confused:

Send it to me I'll make sure it goes to the right place! LOL! :grin:

[MikeEdgerton]

ain't no rules with music... just play your mandolin and enjoy it!

Except when it comes to mandolins and capos, then there's rules. :cool:

Hows that for a segue?

[Tim2723]

That was really well written. Thanks man. I'm starting to feel a little ashamed of myself lol :(

Anyway, what I really love is 60's/70's rock and Cat Stevens/Richard Thompson type folk music. I know both have included the mandolin, but never in a featured role, really (excluding Zep.)

If that's the music you really love, then that's the music you should play. Not every rendition of every tune has to be an exact cover/copy of the original. Add more mandolin to that music.

[Rob Gerety]

If you get good enough you can make your own band. Do whatever kind of music you like. Its a mistake to assume you have to rely on others. Take the lead. If you have something to say musically.

[SoreFinger]

I live in the BlueGrass area of the country, southern Indiana, western Kentucky. I'm not saying I like every BlueGrass song ever written, but it is the popular mandolin form around here, and I'm very impressed with some of the BlueGrass players I have seen.

I tend to like some of every kind of music. That way I'm not limited as to what I listen to, or play, what little I know how to play. I do know what I like, and I like what sounds good, regardless of type.:mandosmiley:

[wogster]

I live in the BlueGrass area of the country, southern Indiana, western Kentucky. I'm not saying I like every BlueGrass song ever written, but it is the popular mandolin form around here, and I'm very impressed with some of the BlueGrass players I have seen.

I tend to like some of every kind of music. That way I'm not limited as to what I listen to, or play, what little I know how to play. I do know what I like, and I like what sounds good, regardless of type.:mandosmiley:

I think this is part of the issue, bluegrass is very popular in some areas of the United States, less popular in other parts, even less popular outside the USA, unheard of in some parts of the world. So assuming that Mandolins can only be played in bluegrass bands is kinda limiting.

[JeffD]

A couple of things you have to learn to live with eternally if you play the mandolin:

1) If you play mandolin, the first question most strangers will ask is whether you play bluegrass.
2) If you own an f-style mandolin, it will simply be assumed that you play bluegrass, and nobody will look up until the 3rd or 4th tune to see if you're along for the ride.
.


Wow, you have bumped into folks much more aware that I have. My experience: most folks don't recognize a non-bowlback mandolin as a mandolin, and don't quite know if that A style is a small guitar, a ukulele, or one of those weird things, a tremoloa or a ukelin or something. And most folks have never seen an F style mandolin and don't know what to make of it at all. I travel around the country for work more than somewhat, and often carry a mandolin, and rarely has it been identified correctly, and never has anyone associated it with bluegrass.

As for identifying bluegrass, to most folks bluegrass is synonymous with banjo music. If there is a banjo in it, it must be bluegrass. If I mentioned that I play some BG, I am sure I could talk folks into thinking my A2 is a banjo.

[allenhopkins]

Is it OK to hate bluegrass and still play the mandolin?

It's always OK to play the mandolin, in any style that appeals to you.

It's not OK to hate any form of heartfelt musical expression, even if it's not your choice. Hate ties you up, restricts your vision, makes you think in stereotypes and closed categories. An open mind and an accepting ear will find beauty in any genre, from plainsong chants to old school rap.

Rules and restrictions, preconceptions and predispositions all limit us in unnecessary ways. Something to be said for the old hippie consciousness, which led an Ivy League kid to buy banjo, guitar and mandolin, and start playing hillbilly music. Forty-five years later, still at it.

[catmandu2]

That pretty much sums-up my cross cultural/mando experience as well, Jeff.

[JeffD]

When I started, I played mandolin for at least a year before I ever heard of bluegrass, and it was probably another year or two after that before I heard any.

That being said, you might try some bluegrass jamming. Wear a mask and go under an assumed name if you have to, but there is one heck of a lot of fun being had that it would be a shame not to at least experience.

[lone-woodwose]

What kind of music got you interested in mando in the first place? You must have heard it someplace and liked it.

I think a good place to look if you want prominent mandolin without banjo in the way is Chris Thile, get a Nickel Creek cd and see what you think. Some people say its bluegrass but I don't call it that, I would rather say "it is bgrass influenced"...lets see if that starts a debate.
Also, as someone else said, Grateful Dead has some good mandolin...but if you like them look up some of the Jerry Garcia-and-David Grisman songs. I like them much more than Chris Thile, but he may be more what you are looking for.

So I don't play much Bluegrass, I play a little more Celtic, but the most fun is playing with an indie-folk-rock band. Drum set, two electric guitars, organ, mandolin. Loud. It's a blast and I don't think it sounds half bad and mando does not seem out of place.

[lone-woodwose]

Is it OK to hate bluegrass and still play the mandolin?

It's always OK to play the mandolin, in any style that appeals to you.

It's not OK to hate any form of heartfelt musical expression, even if it's not your choice. Hate ties you up, restricts your vision, makes you think in stereotypes and closed categories. An open mind and an accepting ear will find beauty in any genre, from plainsong chants to old school rap.

Rules and restrictions, preconceptions and predispositions all limit us in unnecessary ways. Something to be said for the old hippie consciousness, which led an Ivy League kid to buy banjo, guitar and mandolin, and start playing hillbilly music. Forty-five years later, still at it.


That was a really great post.

[delsbrother]

When I took up mandolin, I asked the EXACT question to my teacher - "Does this mean I have to learn to like Bluegrass now? I hate Bluegrass!" His answer was, "Sorry, but yes."

So, perhaps it's not a "definitive" answer, but for all practical purposes I think it's good advice to at least familiarize yourself with the music. In fact if you really "hate" Bluegrass banjo, my advice to you would be to learn how to play it. :p

BTW within a year I was singing along to Bill Monroe CDs (much to the horror of my friends). I drew the line at the overalls, though.

[allenhopkins]

That was a really great post.

Thanx.

[Peter LaMorte]

No

[bonny]

"Is it ok to hate bluegrass yet still play the mandolin?"

Reminds me of a guy I studied the bass with who used to glare over the top of his glasses and say,
"ASK A BETTER QUESTION".

[catmandu2]

No

Twas inevitable ;)

[Pete Braccio]

I lovin' this conversation. Actual ideas being passed back and forth. Kinda renews my hope just a little bit.

Pete

[Ivan Kelsall]

"HATE" is a strong word & not one any of us are accustomed to seeing on the 'Cafe,but i understand the OP's sentiment.Having been immersed in Bluegrass for 46 years,i'm of a different opinion.
Bluegrass,as some other forms of music,CAN sound very samey to those who haven't really explored the genre. Modern Jazz & BeBop,if they appear on any radio station i listen to get the instant turn-off,but i don't 'hate' them,i simply find the music form un-attractive to me.
The Mandolin,as i've come to realize through what i've read,heard & seen,is a very versatile instrument,capable of taking it's place in many forms of music. If you have a particular music form in mind for the Mandolin,go for it,enjoy it & try to add something to the Mandolin's musical repertoir.
Personally,i love 'proper' Bluegrass,especially as we currently have some really great 'new-style' bands on the scene 'The Incredible Stringdusters' spring suddenly to mind. Bluegrass is,as most music forms do,still evolving to encompass newer sounds - may it long continue,

I HATE RAP !!!!!!
Ivan:grin:

[mandroid]

Nobody has complained about hating beer so its a good day. :))

[GTG]

On the plus side, if you're anti-bluegrass, then you should feel no compulsion to play the same style mando as the king of bluegrass, Mr. Bill M.

So no need for an f-style! You can save a whopping 30-40% right there!

Seriously, I think the time is ripe for some new styles to be popularized from the mando. It may be something like creative use of an e-mando in a big-name band (now that the String Cheese Incident have paved the way - almost but not quite what I'd call a big name in popular music).

So grab that non-bg-playing mando and carpe diem!

[Bertram Henze]

Hate is as intimate a relationship as love. To keep distant from BG, indifference is the key.

BG may not survive without a banjo, but a banjo can do well without BG, and so can a mandolin, as this famous example (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9sQylB4bIU) or this surprising one (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-0XI44l9dM) shows.

Bertram

[Ronnie L]

Its ok not to like Bluegrass. Hate is a bit much. But... Mandolin goes with anything! I have been invited up to play with rock covers bands and asked to stay for the whole set .never missed a tune and even took solo's lol!
Polka's? hell yes, Jimmy Bryant transfares well onto mando! Got some Bangra CD's with mandolin on too!

'52 Vincent black lightning was covered brilliantly by Del McCoury on " Del and the Boys" album.

[Marty Henrickson]

Dang! :disbelief: I knew I should have read the manual! Sigh ... :( OK, where do I send it? :confused:

To me! Send 'em to me! Especially the old ones.;) Oops, just noticed that jim (in virginia) beat me to the punch. Well, if he gets covered up, I'll be a fallback position.

To the OP: I know what you mean about the banjo, it can be annoying at times. But in the right hands it's not so bad. Have you listened to Thile's How to Grow a Woman From the Ground? Or early Bill Monroe, with Earl Scruggs? Or anything by J.D. Crowe and the New South? All of these groups featured very "tasteful" banjo players.

That being said, check out some of the Tony Rice Unit "spcegrass" stuff, like Manzanita and Unit of Measure. One of the original premises of spacegrass was that it would be a more extended improvisational form of bluegrass, without banjo.

And keep open ears and an open mind.:mandosmiley:

[adgefan]

Now that you mention it, the mando would probably sound pretty out of place in a hip hop or techno band.


I HATE RAP !!!!!!

Have a listen to the Deadly Gentlemen, Greg Liszt's folk-rap band, featuring the brilliant Josh Pinkham on mandolin. It took me a few listens to get past the novelty factor, but now I think they're pretty cool and doing something that (as far as I know) nobody else is doing.

www.myspace.com/deadlygentlemen

[ralph johansson]

it's not ok to hate, it's much cooler to ignore. hate is such a waste of emotion.


try listening to the socalled new acoustic music of grisman, anger, o'connor, etc. although grisman plays some bluegrass he has also stated that he was led to his brand of improvised string band music by the (perceived) limitations of bluegrass.

[Rob Gerety]

Reminds me a bit of the guy from New York that wandered into a bar not far from Fenway Park and after a couple of beers let on about how much he hated the Red Sox.

[BradKlein]

Reminds me a bit of the guy from New York...

Yeah. I have to say that I basically considered the OP to be an obvious attempt to start a flaming troll war here on the message board. And considered it best to ignore.

Having browsed the responses, I think it's a tribute to the Cafe members who have kept the discourse readable and largely (entirely?) well meaning.

makemeasammich, I see that you're a new member. Here at the cafe, folks are encouraged to use their real names. I think that's a good idea.

[jim_n_virginia]

Yeah I too was thinking that the OP was just a kid trying to stir the pot because I was a little confused at the word hate.

Because I don't like several genre's of music but I don't "hate" them. Music is music and if your are a true musician you can always appreciate another musician's talent especially if they are extremely good.

Anyway's I too think it a testament to the maturity level of the forum in handling suck a hot topic!

:mandosmiley:

[JEStanek]

Sure. I don't play Bluegrass or go out of my way too much to listen to a lot of it. I know it is techneically demanding to play at those speeds. It's just not what I want to do. A lot of good thoughts have been posted in this thread.

Re: the use of mando in techno, it's been done before too (http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/showthread.php?t=29670&highlight=blood+patrol). The link for the free album is down (I got a copy and like it) but if you contact Fwoomf you might be able to get it again.

Jamie

[Charley wild]

I'm another who can't understand the hate thing. And another who doesn't particularly like some areas of music but I don't waste a lot of time and emotion hating them. In music as in any art form I just think we're fortunate to have such diversity.

[JCLondonUK]

Have a listen to the Deadly Gentlemen, Greg Liszt's folk-rap band, featuring the brilliant Josh Pinkham on mandolin. It took me a few listens to get past the novelty factor, but now I think they're pretty cool and doing something that (as far as I know) nobody else is doing.

www.myspace.com/deadlygentlemen

I liked it too -- not exactly rap, but ... good stuff all the same.

Thanks for the link.

[Alastair Brown]

Seriously: I came to the mandolin through Scottish folk. When I wanted instructional material, most of it was bluegrass. It became obvious that, although some of the words to some bluegrass songs have (for me) a high cringe factor, the level of instrumental skill can be exceptionally high (and the words to other songs have real power). Through bluegrass, I discovered acoustic jazz. So you don't have to like bluegrass and you don't have to play bluegrass - but playing it will extend your skill considerably.

Less seriously: It's not OK to hate the banjo if you play mandolin. It's compulsory :) Trouble is, here in Scotland at least, people assume the mandolin is a banjo :(

Alastair

[JEStanek]

On a banjo related note. I got to meet and hang out a little with Tony Trischka at the Philly Folk Fest. He is quite personable, affable, and a generous person and an incredibly talented musician and band leader. We agreed to bridge the divide between the banjo and mandolin communities.

If you could hang out with Tony for 15 minutes and talk about music and still come away hating banjo music, I would be surprised. You may not enjoy it or like it, but I bet you would appreciate it's history and cultural significance. And, you would have had a chance to hang with Tony for 15 minutes. Win win.

Jamie

[GRW3]

I hate people who hate Bluegrass...

No wait, that's too strong. What is it Mr. T used to say? Oh, yeah: "Pity the Fool!"... LOL

Geez... I though I had said some controversial things, looks like there's a new champeen!

NO it's not OK to hate Bluegrass. It's OK to not like it. What flips your music switch is internal but hate speaks of things beyond taste.

I don't like:
Baroque music in general
Harpsicord or celesta specifically
Heavy Metal
Opera
Muzak
Cars bassing out next to me
RAP
Deconstructed Punk (the original form)

The solution to this is to change the station.

[woodwizard]

No

I second that! Good mandolin players that really hate/lothe bluegrass are rare indeed. Not sure they exist...Sure there are a lot of good pickers that play other genes of music but to do that and hate bluegrass at the same time I think is almost an impossibility. IMHO

[Bill James]

makemeasammich,
You have to be very, very careful. One day you're listening to Simon Mayor or maybe some Dawg music thinking life is good. A few month's later you're tapping your foot to Chris Thile and heck, even a little of this Garcia Old and in the Way stuff isn't so bad. Basically you're still OK, you can handle it, there's mandolin in it and mandolin is good right? Fast forward a few more months and you're driving down the freeway, Sam Bush comes on the radio doing "Bringin in the Georgia Mail" and you get a speeding ticket. It's time to start worrying...

Give him a little time boys, a lot of people have come in through the back door! ;)

[mandopete]

Why all the hatin' ?

Kinda ironic that were talking about the Summer of Love and reminiscing about Woodstock.

Who cares what you don't like (except maybe the clarinet).

:)

[John Flynn]

I think it's unfortunate for any musician to "hate" or "loathe" any kind of music. I have some level of appreciation for all kinds of music, from opera to rap (Although now that I say that, I can see ways that opera and rap aren't that far apart!). I can't think of a genre that doesn't have a least a few tunes that I like. That doesn't mean I like it all or want to play it all.

But I can understand the OP's frustration. I dislike being stereotyped as a bluegrasser just because I play the mandolin. I dislike that many of the non-bluegrass threads here tend to get dominated, as a default, with a bluegrass point of view. I like bluegrass OK, I have played it and played it reasonably well, but it is just not my cup of tea. I agree that Monroe was a genius, but I think that 90% of the people who have followed on after him are re-plowing the same ground, rather than innovating like he did, and the few that do innovate get ostracized as being "no part 'o nothin'."

I think the mandolin family is extremely versatile and should not be pigeon-holed as just being tied to bluegrass.

[Randi Gormley]

Do they still have mandolin orchestras out there? There's a chance to play all sorts of stuff that isn't BG.
I'm thinkin' the OP may have used the word "hate" not in the sense we old types do but in the sense that kids use it: "I hate homework!" "I hate school!" "I hate my hair!" "I hate Susie!" so I'm giving him some slack on the language. Life is more intense and language less subtle when you're fairly young, if I remember correctly (although it's been a LONG time, LOL). I think it says something good, though, that the OP is interested in the mandolin even if he's worried it's not a cool instrument. It takes a while to learn that cool is relative and that it becomes irrelevant if you love something.

[journeybear]

This is a lively discussion! Time to catch up on a couple of things. First ...


If you don't like bluegrass YOU are NOT allowed to own a mandolin!!!


Dang! I knew I should have read the manual! Sigh ... OK, where do I send it?


Send it to me I'll make sure it goes to the right place! LOL!


To me! Send 'em to me! Especially the old ones. Oops, just noticed that jim (in virginia) beat me to the punch. Well, if he gets covered up, I'll be a fallback position.

Y'all have to be able to recognize sarcasm heareabouts. ;) You can have my mandolin ... when you pry it from my cold dead hands! :))


When I started, I played mandolin for at least a year before I ever heard of bluegrass, and it was probably another year or two after that before I heard any.

This has come up on previous threads, as you and I and a couple others have mentioned arriving late at the bluegrass party. Personally, I believe this has helped keep my musical sensibilities from getting pigeonholed. Bluegrass and mandolin (and bluegrass and banjo - thanks for the examples, Bertram) are NOT synonymous - even though The Father Of Bluegrass played mandolin, and banjo player Earl Scruggs had probably the biggest bluegrass hit and most well-known bluegrass song in "Foggy Mountain Breakdown," and (as noted elsewhere) the IBMA band competition requires both mandolin and banjo. It took a while for me to get good enough on the instrument and familiar enough with chord progressions to play the music I liked on the instrument, a little less to figure out the songs I was dreaming up that were in a similar vein (folk rock, acid rock). I didn't encounter bluegrass until college, 3-4 years into this process, and even then I got into eastern European music first.Since I was the only one in my school who even owned a mandolin (once Alan Kornhauser, a senior, graduated), I got asked to join a bluegrass band, and had to learn some stuff pretty quickly! Country came much later, late 70s, when I was so tired of what I was hearing on the radio (disco, metal, punk) I'd pretty much stopped listening altogether, and the Urban Cowboy craze hit, making country music unavoidable. As I listened, I learned there was a place in music for human emotions and heartfelt musicianship. But by then I'd learned how to use the mandolin as a means of personal expression regardless of what genre I was playing, and I'm sure I would not have arrived at this if I had started and stayed in one genre.

BTW, folks, from reading his subsequent posts the OP has backed off a good bit from his use of the word "hate" - which seems to indicate he's been learning from all this, a good thing indeed. (Unfortunately, the thread title remains.) I would suggest, though, that he not join the banjo hang and espouse his hatred of banjos there ... :whistling:


Who did "Vincent Black Lightning? " "The Road Oilers" are a vintage Vincent Motorcycle club/oldtime string band that has been in the S.F. Bay area for years and who's motto is "It seems fast to us"--I wonder if they've heard that?

Duuuuude! Everyone knows it was Greg Brown! :)) OK, Matt DeBlass mentioned the song along with Cat Stevens and Richard Thompson, and you can be sure it wasn't Cat Stevens ... ;)

[JeffD]

I have been a big advocate for the idea that the mandolin is much bigger than bluegrass. But this thread is an opportunity to build the bridges I may have burned. Bluegrass is very important to the mandolin.

We can and do all have different taste, which is fine. But you cannot get around the fact that the development of bluegrass has been very very good for the mandolin's popularity. That we can find and purchase a mandolin in the US almost as easily as a guitar is due in large part to bluegrass.

I really (really really really) like the old classic BG, and I even enjoy a BG jam or two. And I really like the people that play BG.

But upon first hearing I was put off by the high vocals, and with some jammers, the affectation of rural poverty. I have learned to love the high vocals, and to just kind of chuckle at the rest.

[Jkf_Alone]

I can understand why a young man wouldn't want to be seen playing bluegrass. I used to say I hated country, rap, and pop music as an adolescent. I realized later that it wasn't the genre or style of the music I disliked, it was the smooth polish that was put on by the record companies. The same thing that drew me to punk and heavy metal type music in my teens, drew me to bluegrass and acoustic music as an adult. It was the honesty, and the rough edge that was left on the music that I liked.

Admittedly many, many bluegrass bands get repetitive and follow the genre defining "rules" too closely. The early guys each had their own definitive style, and stayed true to what they thought was music, rather than trying to fit in to what people wanted them to be.

Depth in music, to me, is sincerity, and the desire to communicate something that resonates with every one listening. Shallowness is anything done for self-glorification.

In conclusion, play what you like, and be careful to keep open ears. As you get a little older, you may find you tastes changing. Oh, and if you want to be cool, buy a synthesizer and write songs about how you hate your toe hairs, but make them sound like love songs to a tree leaf.

[woodwizard]

If some don't like the high vocals in bluegrass I can only imagine what they think about the bellering/almost yelling type of singing that goes along with old time music. :disbelief: I love it all! :)

[JeffD]

:disbelief:
I must admit, rather shamefully, that I don't picture it as a cool genre of music. I would never want to be seen playing it.



Wait, wait. I missed this part.

Seems to me you cannot be self conscious about looking dorky, and also play the mandolin. Kind of like deciding which calculator to wear on your belt. Huh? :disbelief:

I picked the mandolin because it was so un-cool it was cool. Everyone I knew played the guitar or played at playing the guitar or wanted girls to think they played the guitar, or wanted guys to know how much they appreciated the guitar. It was THE way to be a "sensitive new age guy".

Mandolin? What was that? Something your aunt made you play for her after dinner? So un-cool I had to play it. Kind of like the way the Talking Heads danced.

[Richard Moore]

This question puzzles me on two counts.

First, the "hating bluegrass" aspect commented on by many posters already. I do not play much bluegrass, being mainly an Old Time and "Celtic" player, and do not care for the most blatantly self-indulgent of it but certainly do not "hate" it or any other genre for that matter as a player. I might not go out of my way to listen to some styles but hate is too strong a word. I rather like Joshua's statement above...


Depth in music, to me, is sincerity, and the desire to communicate something that resonates with every one listening. Shallowness is anything done for self-glorification.


Second, and maybe this is because the Cafe is predominantly US-based where bluegrass is much bigger than elsewhere, I find it odd on a mandolin site that the mandolin is associated exclusively with bluegrass by some people. OK, it's a key instrument there and there are many superb players in that genre but the mandolin's been around for centuries and bluegrass only about 70 years.

[JEStanek]

JeffD I also picked up the mandolin partially because it was uncool enough to be cool to me. I mean everyone plays guitar. Honestly how many emo-boys or emo-girls do you see playing mandolin... not too many, I bet. Which is fine with me, I'm fine with them expressing themselves and their feelings but I'm past my teen angst.

You can play a mandolin and look like a hill-billy (not disrespecting here), a Bluegrass picker in a nice suit, a person in period dress at a ren-faire or a polished Jazz Performer or a dude in shorts and a t shirt playing alone in your house.
Jamie

[Brandon Flynn]

I'm late in this thread, but I am very surprised. I thought with that topic it would have blown up. Very impressive discussions going on. And the OP changed their mind about the word "hate". It is perfectly fine to dislike bluegrass and play mandolin. Although it may alienate you from many mandolin players, many of which only play bluegrass.

[Jim MacDaniel]

...Anyway, what I really love is 60's/70's rock and Cat Stevens/Richard Thompson type folk music. I know both have included the mandolin, but never in a featured role, really (excluding Zep.)

Many artists for whom the mandolin is not their primary instrument, often use the mandolin primarilly for flavor, so it often does't get a featured role in the track, let alone the album, including Zep (even in Zep's mandolin songs, Plants voice is more of the featured instrument than Page's or JPJ's mandolin work). But this tendency may make their tracks that do feature it even all the more special and ear-catching -- to we mandolinists at least. ;)

Once such track by Richard Thompson is One Door Opens, on his The Old Kit Box (http://www.amazon.com/Old-Kit-Bag-Richard-Thompson/dp/B000084TOZ/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1250609798&sr=1-3) recording. Very nice mandolin work, and the song, while nice on just guitar, isn't quite the same without the mandolin IMO.

[300win]

I can understand why a young man wouldn't want to be seen playing bluegrass. I used to say I hated country, rap, and pop music as an adolescent. I realized later that it wasn't the genre or style of the music I disliked, it was the smooth polish that was put on by the record companies. The same thing that drew me to punk and heavy metal type music in my teens, drew me to bluegrass and acoustic music as an adult. It was the honesty, and the rough edge that was left on the music that I liked.

Admittedly many, many bluegrass bands get repetitive and follow the genre defining "rules" too closely. The early guys each had their own definitive style, and stayed true to what they thought was music, rather than trying to fit in to what people wanted them to be.

Depth in music, to me, is sincerity, and the desire to communicate something that resonates with every one listening. Shallowness is anything done for self-glorification.

In conclusion, play what you like, and be careful to keep open ears. As you get a little older, you may find you tastes changing. Oh, and if you want to be cool, buy a synthesizer and write songs about how you hate your toe hairs, but make them sound like love songs to a tree leaf.



"I can understand why a young man wouldn't want to be seen playing Bluegrass" In my part of the country I would say the majority of the younger musicians{ both guys and gals} here { 12-22} play Bluegrass and love it, and the majority of the women young and old, love to hear it. Here it is almost a status thing if you can pick Bluegrass, you are somebody's hero. There is a jam somewhere almost every week-end, there are bands galore, there are either fiddler's conventions or a festival to go to on a regular basis, This is another part of the country I guess that it has always thrived. Fiddle, banjo, guitar, mandolin music here was being played long before Bill Monroe came along. He just gave it all a direction to go in.

[Link]

Personally, I don't think that art should be immune to hate. A work of art is supposed to be subject to critical scrutiny, and hatred is part of the spectrum of reception. I think. Someone would have to say it back to me.

Anyway, I have heard very little–if any–bluegrass, but I plan on listening to some soon. I would not be surprised if I like it, and I would not be surprised if I hate it.

I focus on electric mando, and I doubt that I will get many requests for bluegrass, assuming I ever start performing publicly. However, in order to be on the safe side, I plan on having a snappy comeback* I can whip out whenever I do get a bluegrass request.

*Perhaps "this ain't Deliverance!"

[Jim MacDaniel]

...So un-cool I had to play it. Kind of like the way the Talking Heads danced.

LOL! Though I've always been a fan of Talking Heads and David Byrne, I forgot about the "Big Suit" -- I loved the way he made that thing move, and enjoyed the "performance art" aspects of their live shows, especially early on.

Good parallel though Jeff: everything about Byrne was so square and odd, which made him all the more cool and interesting. Mr. Sandwich could similarly create a cool-niche for himself by embracing the mandolin, as well as other musical styles that other kids don't listen to -- perhaps even including bluegrass -- and incorporating them into his own style. (But avoid the bib overalls; those look simply hideous, and are unflattering on anybody, and any body. ;) )

[chip]

Hate bluegrass??? Is it Monroe's voice you don't like or early 50's harmonies? How anyone on the planet doesn't enjoy listening to smooth harmonies, entirely string bands playing bluesy heartfelt riffs is beyond me. Allison Krause is considered "bluegrass" and you don't care for her and her band? Are you kidding me? Dude...dude! What do you play and like?

[stratton7584]

i would listen and play bluegrass 24/7 if i didnt have to sleep...:)

[CES]

Nobody has complained about hating beer so its a good day. :))

There are people who hate beer? :disbelief:

Alan, very much enjoyed your post (you know the one I'm referring to...)--

:mandosmiley:

[stratton7584]

oh yeah i forget and that dreadful thing we call work...yuk!!!:(

[Jim Broyles]

There are people who hate beer? :disbelief:

Yes.

[woodwizard]

There are people who hate beer?


Yes.


NO! tell me it ain't so.......:disbelief:

[journeybear]

Many artists for whom the mandolin is not their primary instrument, often use the mandolin primarily for flavor, so it often doesn't get a featured role in the track, let alone the album, including Zep (even in Zep's mandolin songs, Plant's voice is more of the featured instrument than Page's or JPJ's mandolin work). But this tendency may make their tracks that do feature it even all the more special and ear-catching -- to us mandolinists at least...

This made me think about all the artists and bands who idolize and emulate Led Zeppelin yet either overlook this aspect of their work or, if they do pay homage, simply cover one of their songs that feature mandolin. Take Heart. :grin: One would like to think some of them would follow the signposts Zep left for them. A lot of rock bands still include an acoustic segment in the middle of their shows (thanks, MTV unplugged!), but I'm not aware of many that feature mandolin. I understand it's easier for a rock guitarist to pick up an acoustic guitar in such a situation, but one would think, if one were devoted to a band, one would be inspired to explore all aspects of that band. Zep's use of mandolin is pretty magical (except on "Boogie With Stu" - there it's just fun, which is its own magic ;)); why not embrace the magic? :mandosmiley:


... avoid the bib overalls; those look simply hideous, and are unflattering on anybody, and any body. ;) ...

I tend to agree with much of what you say, but this ... Fortunately, discretion compels me to not post any pictorial representations to the contrary, but there are plenty of examples. Believe me! :)) (Way OT, too ...)

[stratton7584]

Nobody has complained about hating beer so its a good day. :))

i dont like beer!

[Jim Broyles]

There are people who hate beer?




NO! tell me it ain't so.......:disbelief:

Yeah, it's so. No soap box, but I don't like any kind of alcohol or its effect.

[foldedpath]

Second, and maybe this is because the Cafe is predominantly US-based where bluegrass is much bigger than elsewhere, I find it odd on a mandolin site that the mandolin is associated exclusively with bluegrass by some people. OK, it's a key instrument there and there are many superb players in that genre but the mandolin's been around for centuries and bluegrass only about 70 years.

Well, to the extent that this is a USA phenomenon, remember that it's a huge country with a lot of regional variation in culture and music. Back when I had a vacation place in east Tennessee, I guarantee that none of my neighbors would be aware that mandolin was played outside bluegrass or country music. That was just the local culture. Now I live out in a corner of the Pacific Northwest where bluegrass is rare. The local acoustic scene is more OldTime, Contra Dance, and Irish 'trad oriented (with some pockets of blues, jazz, choro). Different place, different local culture.

Sometimes it's a little annoying when people show up on threads and assume that everyone talking is a bluegrass player, but I understand that's just a reflection of their local music scene. Most people eventually figure out that there's a mix of players in different genres here.

On the personal taste issue, I don't care for most bluegrass and don't go out of my way to listen to it. A very early exposure to Dawg and similar music (Grisman, Trischka, Fleck) instilled a love of the instrumentation divorced from the source. On the other hand, every once in a while I'll follow a link posted here to some traditional bluegrass clip on YouTube, and really enjoy it. I can take it in small doses like that. :) It's hearing more than a few bluegrass songs in a row, that starts to get my feet moving for the exit door.

[stratton7584]

i agree!!

[chasgrav]

Bluegrass is like a box of chocolates. You never know what you're gonna get, and (for me) a couple of small bites usually leaves me satisfied.

[alanz]

My first exposure to mandolin was watching Davis Grisman on TV with his group playing Dawg Funk. To this day, that's one of my favorite pieces of music, it always makes me smile.

I grew up in Queens, NY... so bluegrass wasn't even on the radar. I too grew up with Cat Stevens, Simon and Garfunkle, James Taylor, the Beatles... and other poets of my generation.

I chose mandolin a year or so ago because it was small, easy to carry, and the world didn't need another mid 50's aged beginning guitar player. In my area, it's an offbeat instrument, great for offbeat personalities.

If I hadn't started on mandolin, I'd probably be learning the harp (another fringe instrument), as my wife is doing now.

I've been doing the basic beginner mandolin music, including some bluegrass and old time... but just for the learning experience. It doesn't call to me.

I finally found sheet music for Dawg Funk... it may take me years to play it in a way that doesn't make me wince.

[LarryMando]

Click on the MP3 link on this site and listen to the genres of music available right here.

I do like to listen to BG music - but only maybe 40% of what is available (a pretty big percent I think). I do like playing it AND I GET to jam tonight and I can hardly wait.

[Dan Hoover]

I think I overstated my "hatred" for bluegrass. I dislike it, but I certainly don't loathe it. The thing that kills me about it, every single time, is the banjo. I know that's like saying I hate the peanut butter on a pb&j sandwich, but it's the truth. In fact, what I REALLY loathe is the banjo. And the high, nasally voices of some of the male singers. Take those out, and then we'll talk :)

so...just what do you have against peanut butter now????:crying:

i think i understand?hate is a easy word,4 letters..Dislike is much better..
it's like?....i dislike tennis,i "appreciate" it,but i prefer ping-pong...it's just my wife doesn't like me jumping on the table...you dig??:grin:

but at the end of the road,i belive we have to come and at least "appreciate" many genre's of music,especially if you play a instrument...after all,it all comes from the one and same place...the soul:cool:....except maybe rap??only the filthy rap.... i may change my mind??i hated disco back then.. still not sure if i "appreciate" it? but,i can tolerate it..that's being american...
i'm rambling..should have stopped at peanut butter...hey,i just remembered,did someone start knocking beer here again??:crying:

[catmandu2]

Furthermore, I must admit, rather shamefully, that I don't picture it as a cool genre of music. I would never want to be seen playing it.


One other thought here. You could perform BG to please the crowd with relative anonymity under a psuedonym (ala Red Knuckles..) :whistling:

[Jim MacDaniel]

I tend to agree with much of what you say, but this ... Fortunately, discretion compels me to not post any pictorial representations to the contrary, but there are plenty of examples. Believe me! :)) (Way OT, too ...)

I stand corrected: overalls definitely flatter this guy's figure...

[Ted Eschliman]

And with that, as good a place as any to keep this thread from fermenting any further. Though we do have some pretty clear guidelines, I'm going to offer that with my own bit of Moderator latitude and self-imposed discretion, any post that contains the word "hate" in connection with some kind of music genre is not likely to last long. Five pages is penty enough for this one, too.