Teens Gibson Labels

[FrankenMouse]

I have two Gibsons, both made in early 1914. The labels were filled out in pencil, and it doesn't take a handwriting expert to see they were both written by the same hand.

Were all or most labels of this era filled out by the same person? Do we know who this person was? Was he a builder, or did he spend all day filling out labels??

Enquiring minds need to know. Please check your teens Gibson's label and let me know whether they match these:

[FrankenMouse]

Here's the second label:

[Darryl Wolfe]

cool subject....most all teens seem to be the same person. #A slightly different style can be seen later in the teens and thru the Loar era. #The serial numbers on those were done with long vertical strokes. #Soemwhere are around '26 another style appeared that is similar to above, but had wider rounder numbers to it (where the numbers had the same height as width) Rubber stamps were developed for the word "mandolin" somewhere in the late teens or very early 20s

[Darryl Wolfe]

a nice example of the later style with the rubber stamp and "rounder wider numbers" (borrowed from an ebay listing)

[FrankenMouse]

I looked at dozens of entries in the Mandolin Archive, but apparently nobody bothers to photograph a label unless it was signed by Lloyd Loar. I did find one nice label though, the writing on which appears to match the "rounder wider" script above. This one's from 1924.

(Photo borrowed from the Archive and cropped. Please don't sue me, I'm having a bad week.)

[doanepoole]

Frankenhouse,

Same guy signed mine. #I could recognize that familiar handwriting a mile away.

Mine was also built in 1914 so far as I have been informed.

Whoever he was, God bless his soul.

[sunburst]

Are we just assuming that some "guy" signed those labels?
The "rounder wider" looks like it could be a more feminine hand.

[racuda]

What about the penciled number under the label? Was this written by the same person who wrote the labels? It is from a 1920 mandolin. http://www.frets.com/FRETSPages/Luthier/Technique/Mandolin/RevealNumber/RevealViews/dried.jpgFrom Frank Ford's frets.com.

[Darryl Wolfe]

In the case of my '23 A-2, the handwriting under the label is the same as on the label...there were on 2 digits left on the label, but they were the unmistakable tall letters like the first pic.

The pic just above with the 75xxx handwriting is the earliest example of that person, which I too believe is a female...The tall writing did continue off and on for a while later

[Darryl Wolfe]

consider this one

[Darryl Wolfe]

but, then this is the more standard handwriting for Loar era and way back

[onlyagibsonisgoodenuff]

I think during that era most people had better penmanship. Nowadays, you're lucky if you can make out any of the numbers.

[bluesmandolinman]

Talking about "who" signed it I was wondering "what" they wrote because looking inside my K2 Mandocello I noticed that the label says :

Mandolin Style K-2 Ser. 12861

Is this standard that in a mandocello it says Mandolin ? http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

Please look at your labels and let me know

Thanks,Renéhttp://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Spruce]

"I have two Gibsons, both made in early 1914. The labels were filled out in pencil..."

Are you sure it was pencil?
Mine (http://www.mandolinarchive.com/perl/show_mando.pl?392) appears to be maybe purple ink?

[FrankenMouse]

You mean, like this? Mine are definitely in pencil.

(Photo comes from another thread regarding a bogus F4 auction.)

[grsnovi]

My H2 'dola label does not have the Patent dates above the space for the instrument type. The "blanks" on mine are all filled in by rubber stamp in red ink. So, top line reads: "Gibson MANDOLA Style H2" #- next line reads: "Number 55397 is hereby"

I've never asked anyone here about the serial number - can anyone date mine from the sn# ?

I'm also inclined to think that penmanship was taken much more seriously 100 years ago. One thing that I have noticed is that many people who manually write will often have very similar styles. In the mechanical engineering/drafting world (going back before CAD systems) many draftsmen had nearly identical printing styles. I'm sure the scriveners who kept ledger books in the 1700's and 1800's had unique styles but I suspect they may also be more alike than different.

[Jim Garber]

I've never asked anyone here about the serial number - can anyone date mine from the sn# ?
1920

[Mark in Nevada City]

my 1917 f4 has now completely lost the original pencil on the label. About 10 years ago with a strong light I was able to duplicate what was written and I keep that in the case. Question: in say 20 years will I have a problem proving originalinality without removing the label (a la Frank Ford)?

[TommyK]

Penmanship was taken seriously 30 years ago.. at least by the nuns at St. Pats! Their methods were, at the time, considered old fashioned. But, we were drilled on penmanship. You learned 2 letters a week and you practiced them until you got it 'right'. There was only ONE way to make any letter, no deviation... or else! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif
Since their methods were 'old fashioned' 30 years ago, it's no wonder that 100 year old handwriting of various individuals deviated little.

[TommyK]

FYI,
Ink fades, Pencil graphite doesn't.
http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif

[Mark in Nevada City]

I'm fairly certain my faded lettering is pencil. 15 years ago you could still make out the "shimmering" graphite quality and what it still visible the eye (not much!) looks like pencil. My thought is that dust plays a part in "removing" layers of graphite. Possible?

[FrankenMouse]

Or maybe just obscuring it. When I first received No. 16312, above, you couldn't read the serial number. I dusted it gently with a Q-Tip, and now it's very clear as you can see. In real life, it definitely has that "shimmering" graphite look.