Aaaaah ! - That's better.

[Ivan Kelsall]

While i have no actual aversion to scratch / finger plates on a Mandolin,i personally don't need one. My Lebeda "Special" was built with one & that's how i bought it, & how it was until Saturday last. It seemed to me just to be an anonymous piece of Ebony,obscuring the instrument so i took it off.
I think the instrument looks a 100% better -anybody else done a scratch plate removal for the same reason ?,
Ivan;)

[Mike Bunting]

I don't have a finger rest on any of my mandos since I don't post my fingers and my pick doesn't strike the top.

[jim_n_virginia]

I've always taken mine off too or the mandolin didn't come with one but ever since I had to scrub off a ton of finger gunk on my old Fern that I sold I tried something different this time and I left the pick guard on this newer Fern that I bought.

I don't plant fingers anywhere and my pick doesn't touch the top but I play with an open fist as opposed to a closed fist and while I am not conscience of it I guess my ring finger and pinky occasionaly ever so lightly brush the top of the mandolin. I barely touch it but it is enough that after time it leaves smudges and after months in between cleanups it adds up.

So this time I left it on and while it took a little while to get used to it I hardly know it is there now. I look underneath the guard and the surface it perfectly clean so I am leaving it on.

The pick guard does have a purpose so I am going to let it do it's job. I don't plan on selling this mandolin anytime soon but I might one day and if I did it would only be for a DMM or MM that I really liked the tone so I am going to try and keep it as nice as I can.

I now have a pick guard, ToneGard and an armrest! My mandolin is ready for WAR! LOL! :mandosmiley:

[Ivan Kelsall]

Playing Banjo,i do of course,plant my pinky near the bridge for stability. I've tried doing the same thing when playing Mandolin,although i don't need to,but it just doesn't work,it's a totally different hand movement. Also, i tend to play with the finger of my right hand that aren't holding the pick,in a loose 'fist',so they come nowhere near the top of the Mandolin - but it's quite literally different (pick) strokes for different folks. The other thing is,i just prefer my Mandolin un-cluttered by anything that isn't of benefit to my playing - i've often wondered if removing the strings might the 'ultimate benefit',:grin:
Ivan

[Mike Bromley]

I love the pinky-plant debate. I wonder if drinking tea from a bone china cup requires a raised pinky, while swigging Tim Horton's uses all four? Does it change the flavour?

I pinky-plant sometimes, and other times I don't. I use stumpware rather than stemware, also.

Topic-consistent: I removed all pickguards. They rattle.

The methods are as variable as Newfoundland Weather, and all just as valid as the other, if the tone is good.

[AlanN]

What he said.

Smoke 'em if ya got 'em.

[Ken Olmstead]

Ivan - the mando looks far better with the pickguard removed. Unfortunately, and with all respect due to the builder, it is a non-descript piece of ebony that does not look shaped that well for its purpose. On an F5, I really like to see a full Gibson style pickguard. 2 points, and A models are wide open!

I am actually going to a finger rest to facilitate going between instruments. If all I ever played was mandolin, I would not need one at all. I don't have one on my Fern and the top is virtually perfect. Any evidence, is from letting someone "try" my mandolin! :)

Looks really good Ivan!!

[journeybear]

I think it looks a lot better - symmetry is restored, the instrument is presented without fetter or clutter, and as Ken said, the pickguard was, ah, lacking aesthetically.

My A model has no pickguard, which is fine. I still have it somewhere, tucked away in deep storage, the original pickguard from my original A model - all I have left of it - and if I ever change my mine, I can install it. I remember it rattled, that clamping design being less than foolproof. So sayeth the fool. :grin: I also removed the pickguard from my late lamented F-12 :crying: (and that is presumably all I have left of that, wherever it is), for musical as well as aesthetic reasons - didn't see the point in blocking the treble side f-hole. :mandosmiley:

My concern has always been scratching the surface with a pick, not leaving "finger gunk." The latter can be wiped away; the former is a good bit more permanent! ;)

[Chris Biorkman]

I don't plant, but I like having one on there to protect the top. It took some getting used to, but now I don't even notice it's there. I just got a sweet new bound abbreviated one from Tom for my Ellis that really dresses the thing up quite a bit.

[Denny Gies]

I purposely had the pick guard not included when my mandolin was ordered. Looks better without it.

[JeffD]

Wow! I must be in the minority. But I think most of the time pickguards look great, and especially if the instrument was designed with it, the mandolin looks kind of naked without it. I love the look of the vintage Ginbson A with pick guard. Very fine.

I recently saw (on here I think), a pre-Gibson Flatiron pancake, with a pick guard added. I though it looked really cool.



I am a firm and proud planter, when its the best way to play a passage, and I do it whether there is a pick guard or not.

[allenhopkins]

Some have 'em, some don't, no big deal to me. I plant my fingers on the top, and I did wear through the very thin finish on my Eastman 615 mandola within six months of purchasing it. I got the finish touched up and a clear plastic golpeador (which is what the flamenco guitarists call it, a "tap plate") glued to the finger-resting area.

Only time I took one off intentionally was on my '50's F-5, and that's because the plastic had warped so that the pickguard was curved upward at the end, and interfered with pick movement. I think it's all a matter of taste and technique. My new Eastman DGM-1 came with a very nice ebony guard, and I enjoy having and using it.

[AlanN]

I asked the builder to include the pickguard and all hardware for it, but to not do the install, and to drill no holes. I then sent the mandolin and hardware to Charlie Derrington, who I had commissioned to build and install an abbreviated pickguard made from a 'special' material. Charlie did a fabulous job, it looked great. I had it on there for a while, then took it off. Go figure.

It has remained in a box for 10 years now.

[mdlorenz]

I love a nice pickguard. But yea that one looks not quite right. Hans's guards & loar style are very complimentary to the looks of the mandolin though.

[journeybear]

I dunno, Alan. People sure are funny critters, ain't we? Go figure is right! :)

I may yet put my old pickguard on my new (to me) A model, but more for sentimental reasons than aesthetic or practical ones. I would be restoring part of my first mandolin to public life, and also honoring my mother, who bought it for me.

I'm more open to pickguards on A models than F models - and Jeff, yours looks fine with it - just because of the way they cover part of the treble side f-hole. I don't know how much of the sound it blocks, but it plays havoc with the look. It gives the impression that practicality has won over aesthetics, and I usually side with aesthetics in such considerations. Of course, you don't want to end up with an instrument like that 33K F-5 that keeps coming up for bid! ;)

[Scotti Adams]

Im not a pinky planter so I can do or not do a scratch plate....I happen to have an abbreviated one on my Clark mando..I think it compliments it visually..not that it needed it.

[Fliss]

I like the "no-pickguard" look - it lets the beauty of the instrument shine through, IMO :)

Fliss

[Darryl Wolfe]

With no offense to Lebeda, I believe your description of anonomous ebony fits to a tee. It looks better off, but I believe a better looking pickguard could in turn enhance the looks.

[OldSausage]

I don't like pickguards. I don't even have a cover for my iPod. I usually have my luthier distress my iPods before I use them. And, by the way, my iPod is a tone monster. Or it will be once it opens up.

[woodwizard]

I like the look and the feel of the abreviated one on my goldrush. Tried it without it and then put it back on. Got pickguards on my A4 and L7 guitar as well. If it came with it I'll leave it on.

[journeybear]

I don't like pickguards. I don't even have a cover for my iPod. I usually have my luthier distress my iPods before I use them. And, by the way, my iPod is a tone monster. Or it will be once it opens up.

:)):)):)):)):))

[Mike Bunting]

I love the pinky-plant debate. I wonder if drinking tea from a bone china cup requires a raised pinky, while swigging Tim Horton's uses all four? Does it change the flavour?


Now that's a bad comparison, Tim Horton's has no flavour or if you can detect a flavour it would be bong water! See you at Blueberry, they have real coffee there.
I agree with the rest of the statement though, "Chacun à son goût"

[lenf12]

It looks better off, but I believe a better looking pickguard could in turn enhance the looks.

I gotta agree with Darryl on this one. A better looking PG would definitely enhance the looks very much. Just for the record, can we call them "finger rests" rather than pick guards? That is their intended function. I use them on all of my mandolins and find it difficult to play a mandolin without one. As a matter of fact, my '56 F-12 sports an F-5 Journal Loar repro "finger rest" (thanks Darryl!!) and there is no evidence that partially blocking the treble f hole changes the sound in any way. Ask Dave Grisman.

Len B.
Clearwater, FL

[Dagger Gordon]

I don't have strong views about most mandolin pickguards, but I could NEVER buy a Gibson Hummingbird or J-200 acoustic guitar with their pickguards. Huge, tacky and just really awful!

[journeybear]

"Finger rest?" I don't think so. They're pick guards, meant to guard the instrument from potential damage by picks. You might occasionally rest your fingers on a pick guard, but it's there to guard against damage as shown in the pictures - which was not caused by planting one's fingers. ;)

I'll grant that they probably don't impair the sound much. When I removed mine from the F-12, was hoping to do anything to improve its sound. It was rather young, and just needed to be played a lot, as it turned out. For years, as it turned out.

[mtucker]

.. it's another point of reference for me .. the outside heel of my hand .. as is the bridge and my wrist ..

[lenf12]

In the case of flat top guitars or mandolins perhaps they are pickguards. On arch top guitars and mandolins, they are finger rests. That's why they are elevated off the top of the instrument. If an archtop instrument needed a pickguard, it would be stuck to the top like on a flat top. Why fabricate and install something as elaborate and expensive as an elevated finger rest when a sheet of sticky plastic stuck to the top will do just fine?? :whistling:

Len B.
Clearwater, FL

[OldSausage]

I don't have strong views about most mandolin pickguards, but I could NEVER buy a Gibson Hummingbird or J-200 acoustic guitar with their pickguards. Huge, tacky and just really awful!

Oh, I... well, I'm quite embarrassed now :redface:

[OldSausage]

If an archtop instrument needed a pickguard, it would be stuck to the top like on a flat top. Why fabricate and install something as elaborate and expensive as an elevated finger rest when a sheet of sticky plastic stuck to the top will do just fine?? :whistling:

I bought a mandolin on e-bay once that had that very thing - a plastic pickguard stuck right to the top just underneath where you would expect a real pickguard to be. So I guess they make them. I got that sucker straight off of there.

[Doug Hoople]

I've taken the finger rest off of two of my arched-top mandolins (one an F5, another an asymmetrical 2-pointer).

Actually, they both came loose.

In the first case (the F5), I was in the middle of a private lesson with Carlo Aonzo when it started buzzing. He spotted the problem. That was the lesson in which he convinced my to fold my fingers under instead of planting, and he strongly suggested that I take the finger rest off and leave it off. Seemed like a good time to get rid of it, and I haven't needed it since.

In the second case, the finger rest shook loose again, and I took it off on the spot. I still have it. It's beautifully executed and follows the treble-side point curves perfectly. But I'm personally much happier having it off the instrument while I'm playing.

Note: Actually, I just realized my avatar shows it pretty prominently (taken by Neil J. Dean, the builder, while still in the shop), except that, from that angle, it doesn't appear to match the point curves as well as it does from other angles.

[mandolirius]

[QUOTE=journeybear;693872]"Finger rest?" I don't think so. They're pick guards, meant to guard the instrument from potential damage by picks. You might occasionally rest your fingers on a pick guard, but it's there to guard against damage as shown in the pictures - which was not caused by planting one's fingers. ;)QUOTE]

Actually they are called finger rests and there is a school of playing that uses them as part of the technique. I knew a teacher here locally that wouldn't take students until they'd had one installed. I use mine as a kind of guide. The arm rest elevates my elbow and my fingertips brush against against the rest. I no longer rest my wrist behind the bridge.

As for it being a pickguard, well it could be that too. I definitely know some bluegrass players who are part of the "macho chop" school, where they whack it as hard as possible and those folks sometimes contact the top with their picks.

If they were designed as pickguards then, as someone said, they could simply be glued to the top as guitar pickguards are.

[woodwizard]

I've heard them called both ways. Either way is right to me. Check out this "pickguards" for sale at Janet Davis's store ... http://www.janetdavismusic.com/manpikguards.html
But I do believe more people call them pickguards than finger rests.

[journeybear]

My understanding is that elevated pick guards are designed that way so as to have no effect whatsoever on the vibration of the top aka soundboard. Mine was attached via two pins that slid into holes on the side of the fretboard and attached to the side via a small wood screw into the side on the F-12 and via the famous clamp method (pat'd July 4, 1911) on the vintage A model, thus having negligible contact with the top.

I've really never given a moment of thought to the nomenclature nor intended function until today, nor intend to tomorrow. Seems a rather insignificant concern. Po-tay-to = po-tah-to. ;) But I do hope your finger rests guard against pick damage, and I will occasionally rest my fingers on my pick guard if I ever reinstall it. :mandosmiley:

[Mike Bunting]

Semantics...Heiden uses the term "finger rest/pickguard" and I've seen similar use elsewhere. For me, finger rest sounds best, more continental!, but to each his own.

[Chris Biorkman]

To me, it serves as a pickguard. I don't plant. It doesn't serve the same function to everyone.

[Mike Bromley]

Now that's a bad comparison, Tim Horton's has no flavour or if you can detect a flavour it would be bong water! See you at Blueberry, they have real coffee there.
I agree with the rest of the statement though, "Chacun à son goût"

It does lend a little "Je ne sais quoi".


Semantics...Heiden uses the term "finger rest/pickguard" and I've seen similar use elsewhere. For me, finger rest sounds best, more continental!, but to each his own.

It does lend a little "Je ne sais quoi"...."reste du doigt", ou "garde du Pique"...vive la difference....

Still reeling from the Tour De France....:grin:

[Mike Bunting]

It does lend a little "Je ne sais quoi".



It does lend a little "Je ne sais quoi"...."reste du doigt", ou "garde du Pique"...vive la difference....

Still reeling from the Tour De France....:grin:

These things do go in cycles. :grin:

[journeybear]

Sacre bleu! Mon dieu!! Non plus!!! :crying:

Merci beaucoup :) ... :whistling:

[Ivan Kelsall]

The rest / scratch plate was attached using 2 woodscrews that screwed into the fingerboard extension.It didn't rattle & was perfectly stable. I have to say that although the Mandolin is a 'Special build',i always thought that the rest /s.p,could have been a more sympathetic shape to suit the Mandolin's countours, or at least 'edge bound' to give it a more 'defined' shape.
If i were ever be fortunate enough to have a 'custom built' Mandolin,i wouldn't go for a scratch plate,i just love the shape of the instrument as it comes & the grain of the top-woods used.
However - with due deference to Jiri Lebeda,i do feel as though i've 'violated' his instrument by
removing it - having a concience is a terrible thing,but praise the good Lord,most of us do have one,
Ivan ~:>

[barney 59]

[QUOTE=jim_n_virginia;693705]I don't plant fingers anywhere and my pick doesn't touch the top but I play with an open fist as opposed to a closed fist and while I am not conscience of it I guess my ring finger and pinky occasionaly ever so lightly brush the top of the mandolin. I barely touch it but it is enough that after time it leaves smudges and after months in between cleanups it adds up.

I do the exact same thing--
And after many years of this the salts and the acids will eventually eat through the finish and you will hardly notice this slow erosion until maybe years from now you find an old picture of you and your new shiny mandolin and you'll think "My god, look what have I done to this poor mandolin---

[mandolirius]

To me, it serves as a pickguard. I don't plant. It doesn't serve the same function to everyone.

Why do you need it as a pickguard? What are you doing that causes your pick to come into contact with the top?

[barney 59]

I can think of a number of great players that have totally schredded the tops of their mandolins and whatever their doing I wish I could do it too!

[Chris Biorkman]

Why do you need it as a pickguard? What are you doing that causes your pick to come into contact with the top?

I'm not doing anything. It's other people who play it that I'm more concerned about. My mandolins are both in pristine condition because I'm very careful with them. The pickguard/finger rest, or whatever you want to call it, lessens my reservations about letting others take them for a spin. As long as they wear a Snuggie while they play it, I'm okay with letting other people try them out.

[Mike Bunting]

I'm not doing anything. It's other people who play it that I'm more concerned about. My mandolins are both in pristine condition because I'm very careful with them. The pickguard/finger rest, or whatever you want to call it, lessens my reservations about letting others take them for a spin. As long as they wear a Snuggie while they play it, I'm okay with letting other people try them out.
Isn't a Snuggie a baby diaper. You need older friends! :)

[Chris Biorkman]

Snuggies and Huggies are required. I don't think I'm being unreasonable.

[mandolirius]

Snuggies and Huggies are required. I don't think I'm being unreasonable.

Your friends are incontinent? You need YOUNGER friends.

[Chris Biorkman]

I'm getting conflicting advice here. I don't know what to think anymore.

[JeffD]

I think of the pick guard as part of the instrument, not like something added to the instrument.

And my A2 has had the same pickguard on it since 1923, unadjusted, and it never rattles or shakes or loosens up.

But I would never generalize from the specific. :grin:

[JeffD]

I think it looks a lot better - symmetry is restored, the instrument is presented without fetter or clutter, and as Ken said, the pickguard was, ah, lacking aesthetically.



Is that an F style instrument? Oh, sorry. :))

[clintross]

Pick guards are ugly, always remove.

[Doug Edwards]

I've gone without and with. I prefer playing with one. Each to their own. I don't think they are ugly. Adding one can even enhance the the overall look if done right.

http://hillcountrystringworks.com/sitebuilder/images/post-15-22537-KM200S_Edwards_PG_2_1_-332x224.jpg

http://hillcountrystringworks.com/sitebuilder/images/P10100076-447x315.jpg

http://hillcountrystringworks.com/sitebuilder/images/post-8-26908-Doug_pickguard_1_-404x311.jpg

http://hillcountrystringworks.com/sitebuilder/images/todd-359x282.jpg

http://hillcountrystringworks.com/sitebuilder/images/fritzpg-350x255.jpg

[Ivan Kelsall]

If the scratch / finger plate had looked like yours Doug,it would still be on there. I might even try to find a luthier that would apply some edge binding,after maybe a touch or re-shaping it. But as it was,it added nothing to the instrument & as i said in my OP,i don't need one. However,as it was part of the 'original' build,i am sorry that i felt the need to remove it. If i could re-shape the bottom edge of it,more in line with this one of Doug's,i think it could look really nice with edge binding,
Ivan ;)

[nathanlivers]

I took the pick guard off my fern, also cut off the fret board extension, my fingers usually end up under my strings, resting slightly on the top, yea there is some marring, but that just gives it character right? also have a piece of foam under the tailpiece to keep down those nasty overtones when chopping, and a tone gard on the back