Where does a mandola fit in???

[Cape Cod Struggler]

I recently purchased a T.C mandola in real nice shape.

I know it really doesn't fit into traditional Irish music or fiddle tunes as it is tuned (CGDA) so differently. I realize one can transposed the music and learn new chord structure/fingering. However, when I play a tune or use mandolin chord positions other players look at me and say "Where did that key of C come from?".

What is the normal use of a mandola? Does it fit into "Old Time" or Blue Grass tunes?

Need your help.

[Jim Garber]

You have to try working with countermelodies and harmonies on fiddle tunes. Figure out the scales for the keys you are playing in for various tunes.

[acousticphd]

We've had similar threads before on mandolas. I think mandola can fit in nicely in various string band settings (except bluegrass, because guitar is too dominant), and in fact really add a lot in that tonal area between openback banjos and mandolins.

I use a mandola (a Sawchyn flattop) regularly in a string band setting, mainly OT but it also fits in well when I occasionally play in more Celtic/Irish jam settings. My OT picking group typically does not use a guitar, so I play mandola quite a bit, especially on slower tunes (eg, Bonaparte Crossing the Rhine, Year of Jubilo) where it adds a richer lower range. Mandola can also add a lot to chordal accompaniment, again especially in a lineup not dominated by guitars.

I look at mandola playing this way:
It is not tuned differently; it is tuned the same as a mandolin (GDAE), *except* that 1) the high E is removed, and 2) the next lower 5th interval (C) is added, so it is shifted lower in tonal range.

When shifting from mandolin to mandola, you can think of it as transposing to a different "keys" or chord group (even though you are not). I inevitably do this too, but I find it easy, at least for OT music. If you can play tunes using the 4-5 chords in the key of D (D/G/A/Bm/Em, for eg), you can pretty easily learn to shift the tune to mandola, though it 'feels' like you're now in A (A/D/E/F#m/Bm).

One tip I can offer is to practice the tunes you already know in the higher octave range, down in the lower octave. You may run out of strings or notes on mandolin, but what you are really doing with mandola is picking up and continuing the same mandolin melody in that lower octave range. Next, as you play mandola for awhile, start working on shifting up the neck to get to the higher notes on the A string that you previously played on the mandolin E string.

Chordally, another (and maybe technically better) perspective is that mandola does not really use different chord shapes, but rather uses the continuation of the same mandolin chord shapes. For the 5th-tuned instruments, all the common chord shapes merge into each other and start to repeat themselves as you go across strings. Imagine your mandolin with a 5th string added (C), and this should start to make more sense
On mandola, the simple mandolin D chord fingering (2002) becomes (2200x) ["X" because that string is not there anymore], so it looks/feels like an A chord. But it's still a D.
Likewise, the simple G chord (0023) loses the high note, and adds the note on the low string and becomes (2002) - and now looks/feels like D.
End result, and to sum up my input: If you can play pretty well in D, A, and G on mandolin, you can do the same on mandola. It may "feel" like you are now using the keys of A, E, and D. You're using the same notes, mostly on the same G-D-and-A, but with new lower notes added.

Another tip is to not hesitate to use a capo, as a mandola neck is long enough to go up 2-3-4 frets if you like.

[MikeEdgerton]

Can't use on in a BG band because Bill never did. :cool:

Every now and then you see one. Mrs. Cherryholmes appeared to be playing one a few years ago at Woodstown, NJ.

[Eddie Sheehy]

I use mine for everything. CGDA(E) - look Ma, no E. Capo the 2nd, play in C shapes and voila - D. Same for G shapes to A.

Or Open... D shapes are now G, G are C, C are F, A are D etc. etc.

Lottsa ways to play it...

[gregjones]

Can't use on in a BG band because Bill never did. :cool:

:)):)):))

Reason enough for some to refrain---yet, reason for some to engage.;)

[acousticphd]

Peter Rowan also sometimes plays a mandola in the Rowan/Rice quartet.

But that also is not bluegrass (of course), because they don't have a banjo.

[Eddie Sheehy]

A mandola ain't no part of nuthin'

[Gerry Cassidy]

No mandola in Bluegrass? Oh my! Well, I guess I had better be careful. Then again, considering I don't play Bluegrass...and, Hey, I don't have a mandola either! Phew! I feel good that I can contribute to the keeping the Grass Blue! ;)

Now, I just have to work on not taking my Prophet 5 synth to my ITM seisiuns! :))

Back to the OP: When I did have a mandola I took it to my ITM sessions on a regular basis. It has a great range for versatility. If there were a six-banger, or two: Or a couple Zouk's, Octaves, etc. I would play melody. If we were light in the rhythm section I would comp chords to help out.

[jefflester]

Peter Rowan also sometimes plays a mandola in the Rowan/Rice quartet.
Here's a shot of Peter on mandola and Sharon on mando from a Rowan-Rice gig a couple years ago:

http://content.bandzoogle.com/users/FrankSerio/images/photos/gallery/757653.jpg

[ptritz]

I have a couple mandolas (a Fylde and a Weber) that I use for Irish music. I use a DAEB tuning, a step up from "normal" mandola tuning. In that tuning, the fingerings are the same as on the mandolin or fiddle, just shifted over one course. And of course you have that open B, so you don't have that stretch with the pinky to get that high B. You're an octave below the fiddle - that is, the same range where the tenor banjos are playing.

You do, of course, have to string it slightly lighter than what you'd use for CGDA. I can give you the string gauges I use if you're interested. (Of course, you could also get to the same tuning by just capoing your CGDA instrument at the second fret.)

Pete

[allenhopkins]

Ronnie McCoury uses a mandola with Del's band.

And "where does a mandola fit in?" Right next to the OM on the second shelf of my rack -- actually, anywhere. Its lower voice means it can supply rhythm chords in an ensemble lacking a guitar. It can do wonderful harmonies and counter-melodies below a mandolin or fiddle lead. It can double the melody an octave below (once you learn the differential fingerings) for a really full sound. It's better than mandolin for vocal accompaniment in a solo or duet setting, since its range is closer to normal vocal range. I use it instead of mandolin as a vocal back-up, when a "warmer" or "moodier" sound is needed.

There seems no criticism attached to using a capo on mandola (unlike mandolin), so you can get open-string chords in any key -- neat drones and double-stops that are hard to get on an uncapoed mandolin. I love dancing along, around and below the melody, on old-time, Celtic, even bluegrass songs, adding a richness to the mix that you don't always get in the normal "treble melody, bassy rhythm" sound of the usual string band.

I don't know what the "where did that key of C come from?" comment means. If it means you aren't playing the right chord, that will improve with practice. If it means that you're using different finger positions to make the chords the mandolin players are making, so what? The notes are the same, albeit in a lower octave, and that's what matters.

One thing I've noticed about learning to play an unusual instrument -- which the mandola still is: you need to figure out a role that's comfortable for you and your instrument, not be deterred or influenced by others' comments (which reflect a lack of understanding), and proceed with confidence to make a seemingly-endless series of mistakes until you arrive at a place where you're satisfied, with your musicianship and your instrument. Not easy to do, but really rewarding when you get there.

[Plectrosaurus]

Here's Ronnie pickin' his mandola

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RN91OwVs_T0&feature=related:mandosmiley:

[journeybear]

When I got my mandola after wanting one for years, I had two things in mind: I wanted to instantly transpose some songs to accommodate my vocal range while retaining certain chord fingerings, and I wanted to be able to actually play a low E note in blues runs rather than merely suggest it.

Those goals accomplishd, I set about learning this new instrument - which it is, albeit very similar to mandolin. For instance, though I had indeed acquired that low E, playing a blues in E meant using what looks like a B scale - not as easy as I thought, and lacking in open string notes. A friend suggested I write a song on the mandola, which helped tremendously, and to this day I marvel at the simple wisdom of this idea. :mandosmiley:

I still don't use it anywhere near as often as mandolin, and have not achieved the symbiosis that I have after over forty years on the mandolin. But I do use it occasionally at gigs. This summer I played a few gigs in a duo with a fiddler and guitarist, and most songs would be either guitar/mandolin or mandola/fiddle, the lower pitch providing fuller backup. We would switch off mid-song occasionally, and some songs, like "Rollin' In My Sweet Baby's Arms," would include a double switch-off. We were in G, so that meant playing the mandola with the equivalent of a D scale. I sure hope some people in the audience knew what was going on. This is one reason I don't drink (much) at gigs, keepng stuff like ths straight! ;)

[nkforster]

Back to the original question - Sounds to me like you need an Octave Mandolin.

http://www.nkforsterguitars.com

[John McGann]

or one of these (http://smart-instruments.com/)...mandolin on top and mandola on the bottom. Solves the 'what key am I in' dilemma, allows you to retain all your tunes etc. in the original key/fingering, extends the range of the instrument down, sounds warm and fat like a 'dola but with a nice shimmery E string...and it's easier to play than it looks! ;)

Octave mandolin (http://www.johnmcgann.com/om.html) is another great option-the scale is longer, so your fingerings change a bit, and forget the chop chords unless you are PlasticMan...

[Cape Cod Struggler]

I thank you all for your replies to my question.

I've had the mandola for a week now and I am slowly learning the instrument using mandolin chords structures and finger positions for the TIM tunes I know.

Having a little trouble determining the key I'm in with the tuning/scale change as my music theory is a little weak.

But give me a couple of months and I'll get there. I love the sound of the mandola and slightly longer scale from a mandolin.

CCS

[wildpikr]

FWIW I agree with Allen Hopkins. It fits in wherever you're able to make it fit in. There's a learning curve involved but it's not that bad. Keep picking and enjoy!:mandosmiley:

[alanz]

My first introduction to the Mandola was sitting in the front row watching Radim Zenkl play Pegasus Descent at Mandolin Camp North 2008.

His Mandola is a custom 4 string Breedlove electric. His fingers moved too fast to follow, and it was a jaw dropping performance. I loved the tone of the instrument.

So, to see how far a mandola can be pushed, take a look at

[Joel Spaulding]

Wayne Benson on Mandola :

HERE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLkbSsCA8CQ)

Wayne makes nice use of the Mandola on several tunes with IIIrd Tyme Out and on at least one tune from his Anthology CD.

[steve V. johnson]

One example of a mandola in Irish music can be found with the band Dervish.

Mandolas are also great when accompanying singers.

Enjoy!

stv

[man dough nollij]

So, to see how far a mandola can be pushed, take a look at




Is he doing what I think he's doing? Holy guacamole. I'd love to see a close-up video of his right hand, slowed way down. I literally can't begin to imagine the accuracy needed to play two parts simultaneously that fast. I've never particularly liked any music he plays, but that right hand technique is beyond belief. :disbelief::mandosmiley::disbelief:

Edit to add: It looks like he was wearing a thumb pick.

[hank]

Hey Lee, I agree that's not my kind of music either but I got the opposite impression about how he was doing the two parts at once. I saw his left hand little finger doing the moves to create the second part moving at the right intervals to pick up what he wanted from his right hand strumming. I don't play mandola and am only guessing though. I was thinking about getting a mandola but to be honest these video examples have me rethinking it. I think I'm gonna stick with my original plan: Two mandolins, one hoss for B.G. and one with long ringing sustain for O.T. & Celtic. Not sure that all blue songs work best with the long ringing sustain as generally assumed.

[Barb Friedland]

I think a mandola (or an octave for that matter) can fit in anywhere that the unique voice that it offers provides the interpretation you want from the song or piece at hand. I like to think about where the song lives sound wise and then figure out which mando family instrument fits it best. I like to use mandola on Coal Tattoo and other minor sounding songs.

Disclaimer: my band is not limited to strict Bluegrass. We're more "Alt Grass" and like to push the envelope into some unexpected tunes.

[Ryk]

In answer to the question about Radim: "How he do dat?".

Lynne and i saw him in a small venue this past March (March Mandolin Maddness a weekend of workshops and performances put on by David Surrette. NOT to be missed!) Anyway ... thumb pick and a fingerpick.

I agree too ... Just because you can, doesn't mean you should.

Ryk

[CES]

Oh, if I could, I would, whether I should or not...

[kyblue]

Well, if the Ronnie McCoury clip doesn't shut up the folks that claim there's no place for the 'dola in bluegrass... I guess nothing will.

Wow!

Paula

[JeffD]

I play a pre Gibson Flatiron pancake mandola. I tune it CGDA. If I capo 2 and move down a string I play an octave below the mandolin, or sometimes I play without capo and do harmonies and chords.

That Flatiron is loud. It'l blow your hair back.

I also got a bunch of beginner viola books and I am teaching myself to read alto clef music directly. I would like to play mandola in a mando quartet or orchestra.

[Keith Erickson]

Alison Kraus + Union Station had a mandola and an octave mandolin appear on their "So Long So Wrong" Cd.

It sounded great :cool:

[CES]

Like all instruments, if you can really play and understand what you're doing, you can make 'em fit in regardless (ie, stories of bizarre woodwind instruments blending well at bg jams)...as someone who can't really play and who doesn't yet really know what he's doing, I have to fight to fit in even on "traditional" instruments.

Jeff, I like your idea of using Viola material to learn the theory...I've been considering getting a mandocello (because I need another instrument I can't play like I need another hole in my head) and using Cello materials to learn the theory as well...I've even considered lessons from a cellist, but again for the theory rather than method part...idea number 2 was shot down when posted previously...I think the prevailing thought was, "Would you tak mandolin lessons from a fiddler?" My thought, "Yes, if they also happened to play mando, or if there was no mando instruction around and I mainly wanted the theory...I already know how to hold the thing, tremolo, chop, etc."

Anyway, if you can play and understand what you're doing, you can make a mandola fit in...

[Rhinestone]

Anyway, if you can play and understand what you're doing, you can make a mandola fit in...

That just about sums up what the answer to the original question should be.

I have a Dinnell mandola that is very much like a Flatiron pancake and among other things, it's a tremendous 1930s Mississippi delta blues instrument - if you understand and can play 1930s Mississippi delta blues...

Fit in??? I think it can take over and dominate any musical situation. It's a powerful voice occupying a rich musical range and like an alto sax - in the right hands should be able to front any ensemble. Wassamatter - not enough playable high notes on a 'dola?