do mandolins go flat?

[keymandoguy]

Met a guy last week bragging on his new Blueridge guitar ! talking to a luthier last night and he told me that the tops are so thin that they go flat and have no volume after 3 or 4 months. I just wondered if the same thing might happen to some mandolins ? anyone ever had any experiences with a mandolin going flat & losing volume? http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif

[Bruce Evans]

Do mandolins go flat?

Of course they do. All string instruments will go flat under certain conditions. They will also go sharp under certain conditions.

I would ask your friend the luthier to ramify his remarks. If you tune any string on a flat top guitar and then tune the other five, the first string that you tuned will almost certainly go flat. The increased tension of the other five strings pulls up on the bridge and reduces the tension of the string tuned first. It wouldn't be much of a guitar if that didn't happen. But going flat because of the thinness of the top sounds like only part of an explanation to me.

Losing volume is little bit difficult to understand too, unless he means that the bridge will cause so much bellying up that the soundboard no longer has sufficient range of motion. But both these effects (tuning and volume due to soundboard stiffness) are greatly affected by the bracing which cannot be easily seen from the outside.

With the amount of information that your question supplies, I would not be able to render a complete opinion.

The Blueridge guitars I have played sound and look pretty good to me.

[Chris Baird]

My first mandolin, a Kentucky, literally went flat. #As in the arch of the top sunk in and as it did the tone and volume went with it. #Yes, a top that is too thin or understructured will eventually lose tone and volume. #I do not know if that is the case with Blueridge.

[mandocaster]

A flattop guitar cannot "go flat" as a result of a too thin top. They can belly up, which is maybe what the luthier was thinking. The top of a mandolin that is too thin or inadequately braced can cave in, though. My Vega cylinder back did that when the main top brace came loose.

[TommyK]

I think there's several definitions of 'flat' being used here.
Flat as in went from G# to G

Flat as in runned over by a chevy silverado or arch-top becoming less arched.

Flat as in lost all of it's sparkle or pizzazz or volume

Which kinda flat did your luthier friend mean?

[keymandoguy]

I am sure he meant they lost all there sparkle & pizazz as he was talking mostly about volume and tone. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif

[August Watters]

There's a fine line between a new instrument being lightly built enough that it has good tone when new, and being so lightly built that it doesn't hold up over time. Either a guitar or mandolin can be so lightly built that it loses tone and projection after a time.

When you look at those wonderful vintage Martins and Gibsons -- they took decades to really develop their full voice. But today customers aren't willing to wait -- they expect an instrument to have fantastic tone when it's new, and if it doesn't, they're likely to move on to the next instrument. This puts pressure on builders to make their instruments sound good when they're new -- a very difficult challenge, because an underbuilt instrument may sound good when it's new, but not hold up over time.

I know at least one builder who refuses to follow this trend -- he builds instruments that sound fantastic after 2 or 3 years of use, but need that long to open up. His quotation: "The tone is worth waiting for."

August W

[Stephen Perry]

This is a common myth in the violin trade. The tops on real Stradivari violins are 2.5 mm thick, more or less. Quite often on the less side. They seem to be doing OK, although they've cracked on a regular basis. So long as distortion doesn't result, note that distortion in violins is generally a result of poor design, the instrument continues sounding fine.

Now about Blueridge guitars, we still get raves about the top end ones we've sold quite a while ago. They seem just fine to me. I've had old guitars with thinner tops than these by far that work just fine. Sounds like nonsense to me.

Generally I find that the instruments that are claimed to have gone "dead" simply need maintenance. This isn't unusual after the breakin period.

Steve

[Charlie Derrington]

Follow the model.

With Dreadnaughts, that would be Martin. Violins...Strads, Amatis, Guans, etc.

Mandolins..Loar F-5s.

We know these instruments are the tonal models, and are also assured (given years of use) they hold up very well both in tone and structural durability.

Of course, my opinion is quite biased.

Charlie

[mandocaster]

I have played a number of old Martins that bellied up, but sounded fantastic. They have to hold together, certainly, but a thin lightly braced top will usually sound better than a thicker top. I know there are lots of variables, though - top material, brace design, mojo.

[mandroid]

some [like old 'stradolins'], are steamed spruce archtop, more than carved to get the top shape, for an example.(a friend has one of those, strings on it are chosen quite light guage.)
still puts out tunes. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif

[Fretbear]

Good (old) flattops will often develop a belly behind the bridge, which will then require that the saddle slot be re-routed (moved back) to correct intonation. They often will stay very stable (and sound great) afterwards. In our modern "instant gratification" society, it is a marvel to me that people still even build or play acoustic stringed instruments, but the fact is, some things, like fine toned mandolins, take time, and are worth the wait....

[arrowmandolin]

To paraphrase Norman Blake....."never trust a guitar that doesn't have a belly"