Bridge swap surprise

[OldSausage]

I've had a Summit F100-S for many years that I always thought sounded a little dull and should sound better than it did. I recently bought an Eastman 515, and it sounded a lot better than the Summit. So today I tried out an idea I'd been toying with for a while, and I swapped the bridges on the two mandolins. Suddenly, my Summit woke up, and sounded loud and really beautiful.

So what's going on? Is there anything especially great about an Eastman bridge, or was there just a problem with the old one? if I get one of those Cumberland Acoustics bridges, will that have the same effect?

Thanks for any thoughts you can offer.

[Paul Hostetter]

The biggest aspect to sound improvement with bridges is getting a vacuum fit to the top. Even a fine bridge like a Cumberland won't sound good unless it's fitted to the top.

[OldSausage]

So it sounds like my best bet would be to get someone who knows what they're doing to fit a new bridge for me?

If there are any luthiers in Atlanta who fit that description, please step forward :)

[mdlorenz]

def get that bridge (or a better quality one if its suspect) fitted. Weird that the eastman bridge would fit better w/out adjustments...

[hank]

If your comfortable doing this yourself there is a lot of info out there on fitting your new or even better yet your old bridge first. Basically you protect the mandolin top with paper then tape sand paper down where the bridge goes then gently work the bridge back and forth on the paper to match the tops contour. Go slowly and check your progress a lot and make sure your holding the bridge straight and not using excessive pressure. I've done several, often there is very little material to be removed.

[Jim MacDaniel]

Here's a tutorial at frets.com (http://frets.com/FRETSPages/Luthier/Technique/Mandolin/FitBridgeFeet/fitfeet.html), that similar to Hank, replies on sandpaper to identify where to adjust the bridge feet.

[Jim Rowland]

Best to make sure that 515 bridge is fitted properly to the top. Sometimes a new bridge that doesn't fit quite right can make a big change in an instrument and sound louder, seeming to sound better overall,when you're inadvertantly focusing on the change in sound. If both bridges fit well, chalk it up to serendipity and if the Eastman lost some if its power in the swap,then the Summit bridge would definitely be suspect.
Jim

[OldSausage]

Well that's certainly worth a try first I guess, I will give it a go, thank you.

Both bridges do appear to fit well. I am suspicious of the Summit bridge, though, because the Eastman sounded really terrible when I put the Summit bridge on it.

[fretman314]

I've just swapped out the bridge on my recently acquired octave mandolin. It's only a budget model but the improvement was surprising. More volume and clearer base. I found a site run by Red Henry, he has done lots of experiments on maple bridges based on violin bridge designs. Quite a fascinating subject.
Steve

[Bill Snyder]

Red posts here often.

[Fretbear]

A poor-quality, poorly-fit bridge can make reduce the volume and response of even the finest mandolin; a high-quality, expertly fitted bridge is the single best upgrade you can make.
You cannot even say for sure what a particular mandolin is actually capable of sounding like until you do.

[OldSausage]

Well Fretbear, my experience today would certainly bear you out on that statement. I followed the advice at frets.com and certainly made the summit bridge fit much better back on the Summit, but after this treatment it is still back to sounding exactly like it always used to.

I should make it clear perhaps that this is not one of those subtle, barely perceptible changes, this is more like "Mr Chalk, I would like to acquaint you with Mr Cheese".

[martinedwards]

a bridge needs to be solid to transmit the vibration, but light so as not to hinder the top from vibrating.

add a good fit and you're flying

[pops1]

I have also noticed that a bridge must fit well where it sits on the thumb wheels. Sometimes that area is not flat or parallel to the other side and it will effect the sound.

[Flowerpot]

I had trouble with a Loar-style bridge from First Quality Music; got a cheaper one, trying to save a buck. Well, the thumb wheels threads were a sloppy fit to the posts, and they could rock back and forth, causing a very dull sound with no sustain. After replacing the posts and wheels, it was fine!

So look out for cheap posts and wheels -- make sure the threads are a good, solid fit, and that the wheels can't teeter on the posts.

[Steevarino]

Mark, that's funny to me. Some time back, a somewhat well-known builder fussed at me because my thumbwheels fit too tight on the threaded posts of my bridges. This guy likes them loose, so they can pivot if your bridge needs to be higher on one side than the other. Seems to me, you should be looking for problems elsewhere if you have to jack one side up that much more than the other. Personally, I prefer a tight (but still easily turnable) to a loose or sloppy fit. Just makes sense. If you want it looser, you can always chase the threads with a hand tap. I do that from time to time if there is plating build-up, or whatever.

David, Fretbear was absolutely correct when he said, "a high-quality, expertly fitted bridge is the single best upgrade you can make". Since you went ahead and re-fit the bridge, and it still doesn't sound so good, I would say that the bridge is suspect. After all, they are made from wood, and wood can vary widely from tree to tree, board to board, even. Maybe that bridge you are trying to improve was made with quality, but maybe there is something about those particular two pieces of wood that is keeping the magic from happening...

[pops1]

I agree with Steve, Pressure will make the thumb wheels tight and they can adjust to slight imperfections in the bridge. New posts may have solved your problem, but,adjusting the fit of the bridge top may have solved it also.

[OldSausage]

A follow-up on this. I bought a Cumberland Acoustics bridge and fitted it myself. I am very pleased with the result. It was the first time I had tried this, but I followed the instructions on Frets.com and it was not very challenging. I think it helped a great deal that I had a clear idea of what I was trying to achieve, thanks to the advice everyone gave me here - thank you all very much.

[Ivan Kelsall]

OS - Well done.You did exactly the right thing. I did the same on my very first 'good' Mandolin. It wasn't sounding too great & i bought & fitted a CA bridge using Frank Ford's method & it improved greatly. For my money,the CA bridges are possibly the best around AND they don't cost a fortune,
Ivan

[Dale Ludewig]

Steve makes the best I've found.