How high is the action on your mandolin?

[Gerry Hastie]

I'm curious to know what others have their action set at.

I've had my Eastman 505 for 19 months now. As time has gone on I've raised the action in the search for increased tone and volume. I use 1.5 mm Wegen picks and D'Addarrio J-75 strings. I know that all these factors, including how i play it, strike the strings etc will have an effect on the sound. I play bluegrass style primarily. Measuring the G-string at the 12th fret to the edge of the fingerboard is 4 and a bit millimetres. Bear in mind it is a radiussed fingerboard. Is this considered a high action? Am I measuring in the right place to give an idea of this?

I'm planning to buy a new mandolin in the next wee while and want to be able to discuss set up etc before I take it home.

Any thoughts welcome.

[acousticphd]

Gerry,

Action is typically measured from the bottom of the string to the top of the fret (place a good straightedge on the fret).

I don't know that millimeters is quite precise enough a measurement graduation - but I shoot for about <5/64" action on the G side, and 4/64" or a little less on the E side. The real action differs on each of my mandolins depending on how flat and even the fingerboard plane is down its length (which actually means the plane of the fret tops). In almost every case my action is a compromise; usually I need the action to be a little higher than I'd like it due to some fingerboard or fret inconsistencies.

For my playing and my mandolins, action height above 4/64" (eg, suppose I were to raise it by 50% to 6/64") does not really give me noticeably more volume. Maybe there is a small increase when pounding out chop chords, but not for single note melody playing. It does make playing harder and less fluid. For me, the easier it plays, the more control I have over dynamics and note playing.

[pops1]

I measure in 16ths and my G string is about 2/16's and the E string is just over 1/16. Very little relief on the neck and very good fret level. I still have plenty of power and can play fairly hard, but if you play really hard it may be too low for you. Volume doesn't increase that much with more height and i don't want to sacrifice the playability.

[MikeEdgerton]

You might want to get one of these patented Mike Edgerton String Height guages.

[300win]

On my Gibson F-5 JM radius fretboard J-75 strings, measuring with dial calipers from bottom of string to top of fret; "G"- .110 inch "E"- .060, don't know if this is considered high or not, lower than I'm used to, on my A-9 is lower still but it has GHS silk and steel and I don't use it for Bluegrass. The F-5 has plenty of power, volume, tone, and does not buzz or rattle no matter how hard I get on it, but one of the nice things about this mandolin is I don't have to get on it too hard to get the results I like. This got me to thinking so I also measured my action on my guitar and banjo. Guitar Blueridge BR-140 "G"- .166, "E"- .088, again it is good for me there I recently sanded the bottom of my bridge down to lower it a bit. Now my banjo is strange it is a Morgan Monroe MGB- 1FL with some severe modifications I did to make it better, but anyway it measures, low "D"- .095, high "D"- .108. It does need some tweaking. I got a buddy thats a top banjo man thats going to adjust it some.

[mandopete]

you might want to get one of these patented mike edgerton string height guages.

l.o.l.

:))

[mcH]

Mr. Joe Vest, of Big Joes GuitarWorks in Nashville (formerly of Gibson) recently setup my Weber. When I said I wanted more volume and low action, he reminded me that using a quality bridge and correct fingerboard alignment (neck action) was critical to a good sound, and getting more volume did NOT require high action. www.bigjoesguitarworks.com

I don't know what area you live in, but taking your instrument in for a setup might give you more of the sound you want, if you haven't done that.

[Fran]

Mmmm... never really came to measure it on any of my stringed instruments! As long as the action feels good and allows for buzz-free, easy and fast playing I consider it fine!

[Gerry Hastie]

I've heard that players like Sam Bush have awesomely 'manly' (love the string height measurer thingy Mike) action - not that gender is a real issue - and has it that way to really dig in to the notes. Perhaps just his style.

What I have noticed since raising my bridge height is that chop chords have more 'pop' and it seems to project better. I don't know if this is a bad thing but if the mandolin back is against my belly I can feel it more! Playing seems slightly more an effort but I'm liking the tone and quickly adapting to how it feels. Perhaps on this basis I would appear satisfied and whilst I'm happy to experiment with the set up on a £400 (Scottish pounds) I may not be so keen on a more expensive instrument.

I'm hoping to buy from the acoustic music co in Brighton, England (the exchange rate between Scottish and English pounds is a convenient 1:1) soonish, when the jeely jar is full, and will definately be getting a proper set-up done.

Does anyone have photos of their string-height? I'm still curious as to how others have things set up!

[pops1]

I measure in 16ths and my G string is about 2/16's and the E string is just over 1/16.

Thought i had enough coffee when i wrote this, but should have been 2/32's and 1/32.

[Skip Kelley]

You might want to get one of these patented Mike Edgerton String Height guages.

Mike, That is great! Thats the best action gauge I have seen! Be careful, Stew-mac will have it in their catalog next!:grin:

[MikeEdgerton]

Actually, I think I made it after they made their string height gauge.

[Ivan Kelsall]

mcH - Big Joe's correct. A higher action 'does not necessarily' mean more volume,but a too low action most certainly means less,unless you happen to have an unusually responsive Mandolin.
The action on my Lebeda "Special" on the G side is 1/16" & 5/64" on the treble side. When i got my Weber Fern,as a new instrument,the volume was down a bit - to be expected. I raised the action across the strings by 1/16" to give me a bit extra volume & it was still easily playable. After 2 1/2 years of playing in,it's now developed enough volume along with it's own tone,that i recently brought the action down. I lowered the bridge as low as i could get it,which gave me an action of
around 5/64" on the G side & a tad less on the E string side.The volume & tone have remained the same as with the higher action. I feel that i could get the action lower still if i had the neck relief adjusted. I e-mailed Weber & Tony Polecastro kindly gave me the Weber 'shop setting' dimension for the Fern's neck relief. I've not checked it out yet,but i suspect that currently it's a bit too much. I may have it re-set by a local luthier or, as it's still very playable,i might just leave it,
Ivan

[Mike Bunting]

FYI an excerpt from the handout at the tech class at last years Monroe mandocamp, given by Don MacCrostie and Will Kimble:

6. Adjust bridge height for playability, not for tone.

Treble Bass
Minimum .040" .060"
Normal .050" .070"
Compton .080" .080"

Hope this lines up OK

[Mike Bunting]

I see it doesn't line up, first no. is the treble side and the second number is the bass side (probably obvious).

[Yellowmandolin]

Mike, where are the measurements that MacRostie and Kimble give taken? 12th fret? 15th? Those numbers look like they came from the 12th to me, but there seem to be a variety of places that folks are measuring from.

[mandroid]

token Data point: low tech :redface:
Dawg pick as a feeler gage, ... it stows, stays,
to some extent, when put under the strings, and turned face foreward,
at 12th fr/ 8va /the octave, up the strings.

:popcorn:

[Mike Bunting]

Mike, where are the measurements that MacRostie and Kimble give taken? 12th fret? 15th? Those numbers look like they came from the 12th to me, but there seem to be a variety of places that folks are measuring from.

Sorry, yes, 12th fret.
And sorry to Don for misspelling his name, I never get it right. :)

[Mike Bunting]

Yellowfin, don't you work with Don?

[Yellowmandolin]

Yep! :)

[Soupy1957]

When the mando came in, the action was WAY high........I lowered it about 5 turns. Then I had someone I trust play it, and he said I could still go down more, so I lowered them half the distance.

I go down now as low as I can until I get "buzz" and then I go back up a tad......that's about it.

I hear there is more volume if you leave em a bit higher, but there isn't THAT much volume difference, and I like less pushing down........so, I'll sacrifice a bit of volume, for comfort.

I'm in the midst of a few changes anyway right now. I have been told that I should attempt to "get used to" a right shoulder slinging, so I've done that; and I was told to sling it higher (I didn't have it down at my waist like a Rock star, but I guess I had it lower than my teacher wanted it, so I raised it up a tad.

Funny thing about slinging my axe over my right shoulder..........I tend to hold it more like a machine gun now. The volume is better that way and I look more like Chi-Chi Rodriquez, than Arnold Palmer. I still get the job done, but I look a bit weird.



-Soupy1957

[Miked]

I follow Mike Marshall's advice on going for low action. He mentions in his Fundamentals DVD that "You would be surprised how many of your favorite mandolinists use low action". If do whatever Mike says (sort of).:grin:

For me, it's a lot easier to get good tone with the low action. I was into a phase where I thought some height was necessary to get a good chop, but the chop still pops pretty good with the lower action. If I'm playing a run of notes in a closed postion or holding a chord, I can't make it sound decent without having low action. Bottom line is that I've minimized the tension that's on my wrist and it's much easier to sustain notes.

I'll also mention that a good setup from a trusted luthier (the English or Scottish equivalent of a Dan Voight?) will make a huge difference. A music store might offer the service, but is their work up to the level of a top-notch luthier?

Oh ya, throw on a ToneGard!

[Soupy1957]

"Bottom line is that I've minimized the tension that's on my wrist"...........THAT'S a GREAT way of saying it!!

-Soupy1957

[Miked]

"Bottom line is that I've minimized the tension that's on my wrist"...........THAT'S a GREAT way of saying it!!

-Soupy1957

Ya Soupy, I was playing the tendonitis blues for a while. Not a very nice tune!:crying:

[Dale Ludewig]

It's a heck of a thing to say- I don't measure. Not Mechanically. I do it with basically finger pressure. There are so many factors involved, like neck shape, relief, string gauge (I personally don't like 75's)- that I couldn't give my own favorites without offending someone. I do think that 75's can put a bit too much stress on a light neck. It's all a balancing act. Just like building a top, etc. So many builders seem to want to start out with, and I can't blame them, with wanting precise dimensions and measurements to shoot for. Too many factors interacting here. It's a "whole".
As to the original question, I try to keep my action as low as possible while still delivering power. But see how that works into the dynamics inherent in the mandolin. So much to consider. And experiment with. There are other threads on here that address the same question. Search.

[Ivan Kelsall]

Using Tony Polecastro's info.,i checked out my Weber & it's so close to the Lebeda's 'easy' action that i'll just leave it,although i still feel than a truss rod adjustment could lower the action further 'if' i required it. It could be that at some time i'll get the TR adjusted,lower the action & then
take the bridge back up to bring the action back to what it is now. It just makes for a bit more
'flexibility' in bridge height if i required it,
Ivan

[man dough nollij]

I set up my Eastman 505 for the way I like to play, mostly pretty much quiet and alone. I developed a nasty buzz on only one A string. Turned out that one nut slot was filed a little too deep, so there was string buzz. The shop I bought it from built up the nut slot with super glue and re-filed it. The buzzing went away. Recently I've wondered if the playability would be increased if I cranked the action down a little. I cranked it down quite a bit to the point where it doesn't buzz unless I go nuts. It is SO MUCH easier to play now!

I know it's freaky how sensitive mandolins are to set-up, but it's a fact. I can play much faster on my new mandolin with low action. Yep. :mandosmiley:

[Ivan Kelsall]

The reason i like a 'reasonably' low action is that when i do venture above the 10th fret,the strings fret that much easier. I often use my pinky to fret up there,& it makes for additional clarity,
Ivan

[Jake Wildwood]

I don't think I've ever measured out to 64ths during setup of any of my own instruments...

As long as it's about 3/32" or so you won't be cramping up, you won't be buzzing, and you won't have to worry about the tiniest fret-wear.

That said, I use 34-10s or lighter on my flattops, so I can afford some springiness.

p.s. I wish our cat wouldn't wake me up at 2:25!

[Mike Bromley]

I go down now as low as I can until I get "buzz" and then I go back up a tad......that's about it.

Soupy for Prime Minister! (I know, wrong kinda country)

Ya done stole my method. Head fer the deck until it clatters, then go back until it don't.