Gibson production totals

[Mark53]

I guess this is for Big Joe,

Why are production totals such a big secret? I have a custom shop brazilian/adirondack Nick Lucas model. I understand that very few were made. Why won't Gibson tell me. How can I insure it if I don't know the replacement value? And since Gibson won't use Brazilian anymore the rareity is an issue.

What gives?

[duuuude]

I dunno, but I'd think it ain't nobody's business but their own. Hey, sounds like a song I know!
http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif

[Big Joe]

They don't tell you because it is none of your business. That may be blunt, but honest. Your brazilian is pretty well worth whatever you put on it. I would insure it for ten grand. It is not repalceable. I have only a few of the brazilians in my store and I will not sell them for less than that. They are incredible guitars and not replaceable. If you need an appraisal you can PM me and I may be able to help. Thank you.

[grandmainger]

I would have thought it became the customer's business the minute they actually bought the instrument. It's a two-way relationship.
I'm not quite sure I understand why one would not release these figures... But then again... corporate policies...

[Mark Normand]

Guys, I've done accounting for 25 years, and I agree with Joe, there's no way I would knowlingly release detail sales figures for any private company I do work for. That's why its called a private company. Almost every one of us operates our personal life this way too, why would it be different just for mandolin sales?
Now buy stock in a public company, and ask away. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[grandmainger]

there's no way I would knowlingly release detail sales figures for any private company

I'm not sure sales figures are what Mark is wanting. I think he's after the number of instruments of a particular type. From what I understand, he wants to know how may were made in the series he's got... Kind of like saying I have 1 out of a limited production of XXX... http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

[ourgang]

Exactly Right!!!

Martin Guitars has no problem with it, nor does Taylor.

Whoa boys & girls...... http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

No one asked for sales figuires, model specification or dollar amounts. The original question (on another thread) was roughly how many mandos does Gibson build a month in the Nashville plant?.......

They are not going to answer that question but I feel certain the mando numbers are not nearly as great as most folks would think. I'll stick by my original "guesstimate" & put their yearly American mando production at around 300 units.

So if you consider they have a retail outlet & a large dealer network that is required to buy X number per year......Yes, they are selling all they can build. Now & in the foreseeable future.

Are they flying off dealer shelves?.......That's the million dollar question.

[Mark53]

mnormand,

When Gibson or any manufacturer claims that something is a "Custom Shop Limited Edition" then they are obligated to prove it!

If you don,t number the run like Martin does then it's just a con job to increase the price over the regular production models.

I am not asking for their financial statements just information on an instrument I spent a TON on money on.

I can't prove to my insrance carrier that the instrument is anything special. Here is where Martin has Gibson beat.

With Martin you are a person with Gibson you are just a number.

[dfrady]

This may be a stupid question, but, have tried contacting gibson ?? or the dealer you bought it from ?? And as far as it being none of your business about how many they made of that particular guitar is just plain ole' Stupid !!!!!!!!!!
Good Luck dude i hope you can find out how many they made !!!
http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif

Mark;
# # # You may have to obtain a current appraisal to satisfy your insurance carrier.

[Mark53]

Dale, The question of rareity is an important one in getting an accurate apprasial.

This particular instrument is Brazilian rosewood. Gibson has stopped using Brazilian. Can the instrument be replaced if lost? How many are out there?

How much would a Loar F5 be worth if 10,000 there were made?

[grandmainger]

No one asked for sales figuires, model specification or dollar amounts. The original question (on another thread) was roughly how many mandos does Gibson build a month in the Nashville plant?.......
Yes! I would have thought it was something to be proud about as it were... either because they can produce a large number of high quality instruments, or because they don't produce as many as people think and still retain that 'not-so-big-company' feel... http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Germain

[Tim333]

Big Joe is right. #It's really no one's business unless you are engaged with Gibson as a supplier to them. #Suppliers use the information to determine Gibson's ability to pay their bills. Privately held companies are not required to publish this type of info to the general public. #Besides, Why give your competitors a sense of your success if you don't have too? #Let them figure it out for themselves. Series info on specific models may be another issue.

[mandocrucian]

I gotta say, Big Joe is PR "genius". #If his job was in a different department, I could imagine him strutting around the plant in his pith helmet whacking the workers with a riding crop and repeatedly shouting "Be HAPPY In Your Work!" and espousing the Enron Family values. <span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%'>(while the virtual-POW workers whistle the Col. Bogey March.</span>

I remembered something in the "mandolin symposium" topic about Grisman putting tape over the Gibson name on the headstock of his mandolin. So I found a roll of black electrical tape and taped over "the Gibson" on my F4. You can't see that tape and can hardly tell that it wasn't made that way. #And then I drew a skull & crossbones (the symbol which adorns all my other instruments' headstocks)on some white adress label and cut that out and stuck that on over the tape. #Improved the look of the headstock 100% imo.

http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

NH

[mandoJeremy]

How about any of you guys calling up Bill Collings and ask him what his exact numbers are! #I am SURE he will tell you. #Get real here! #Let me guess, now Gibson's mandolins suck because BigJoe won't tell you how many they make!

[Greg Saer]

Well I guess at least you know were you stand . You are dealing with a privately held corporation and answers like "its none of your business" are their perogitave #However, Collings,Nugget, Heiden, Gilchrist, and any other luthier happily has disclosed those numbers.

Nobody asked for "exact" numbers......cept for maybe the ltd edition guitar of Marks.....

Pass the tape Niles, I think I'll tape my mandos up to & put this

http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif on the headstock!

It seems that there are two different issues, the current production numbers asked about in another thread initially and Gibson is within their rights to not give that info. #

The issue other is a custom instrument that has as part of its value the limited quantity and that should be available - IMHO.

[doanepoole]

I think Mark's original question is how many of that limited edition model were made. I can't imagine why a manufacture wouldn't want everyone to know such a piece of information. Like, if 1 out of 10 are made, you've got something downright rare, 1 out of 100, something pretty rare, 1 out of 1000, it is not really a rare item at all.

I don't get the secrecy on this issue...seems like good PR to let folks know how "limited" an instrument they build is...ask Martin.

How many instrument your pushing in total is a different matter entirely.

[doanepoole]

P.S. I'd imagine Big Joe might not even know the number your looking for.

Gibson Montana and Gibson OAI are two entirely different departments with different management structures, if I understand correctly.

Mark, I bet if you call Gibson Montana and ask them how many of your model were made, they'd let you know...great folks out there in Montana.

[ourgang]

Let's see how this might have played out.

Oh no, you don't want that standard model. Here, buy this one. It's Brazilian rosewood, special edition, limited addition and it only cost 10 TIMES MORE. Now, pay me and get out!!!

[Big Joe]

First of all, I was not asked how many mandolins we produce. If I were, I would have responded the same way. That kind of information is not publicized and not discussed on any internet forum whether anyone likes it or not. I don't even know and really don't care. However, the question was why he could not find the production numbers of a particular guitar. First of all, I could not answer that question if I wanted. I have no idea. Secondly, the Montana Division is a loooonnnggg way from Nashville. It's not like I can walk in and inspect their paperwork. Of course, they would not let me anyway.

His guitar is limited, but it is not a numbered limited edition. It is a custom shop piece. Just because it comes from the custom shop does not mean it is part of a limited run. It could be the only one like it made. It could be there were quite a number made. I cannot answer that. I don't build guitars in our facility. His guitar is limited in numbers by the fact that Gibson did not make very many Brazilian rosewood guitars and will not make any more due to our participation in the Smarwood Program. I've offered to help if he would PM me and that has not yet occured. The value of his instrument for insurance is not hard to determine. It can be done several ways. One is to present the reciept for the purchase. The other is to get an appraisal on the instrument and present that to the insurance company. However, the post has gotten far from the concept of determning the value of a guitar. How that has anything to do with mandolins is another issue.

I am happy to help with any questions at any time that I can. However, Gibson is not a publicly traded company and information such as sales figures or production figures are not published for anyone. Why? It does not matter. That is not my decision. I can only comply with orders. As always, those issues are not relevant to anything in our lives anyway. We continue to make great products and work very hard to get them into the hands of those who want them. We also do what we can to assist anyone with questions about any product that we can. In this case, I have made the effort and that is all I can do.

[Scotti Adams]

Hey Joe..I PM'd you concerning some Jubilee polish and cleaner a few days ago...any word?

[duuuude]

Don't really care how many they build, only that mine was one of 'em.
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[kudzugypsy]

i would say honestly that nobody knows those totals (i'm refering to a specific breakdown of X units with brazillian, X units with natural tops, etc). you are dealing with lots of variations of instruments, an extra pearl inlay may be noted as custom work, when its not all that special.

the problem i see happening is the person who advertises a "one of a kind" like the blond F-5 i saw on the classifieds recently . how do you know its the only one??? take the sellers word? as his asking price is 3-4X what a standard one would sell for? they should at least give you some type of custom shop certificate that would stay with the instrument in situations like this. i think fender does this and with other special run gibsons too.
anyone who has been around long enough will tell you of old men with "this is the only one they made like this" stories. yeah, right.

it will be interesting in the near future when all these instruments hit the used / collectable market to see what solution comes up.