Gibson Bush or Daley

[re simmers]

After playing Mountain Heart's Daley mando at gettysburg, I was prepared to order a Daley about a month ago, but had my work schedule reduced to a 4-day week and changed my mind.

Last night I got to play a friend's 2008 Gibson Sam Bush model. I'm willing to take a risk now. I know I need a new mandolin. $8,999 is more than I can pay.

Sim sells the Standard for $4,000, plus I would get a wide neck and radiused fingerboard and red spruce, pushing it to about $4,700. Sometimes I see used Gibson Bush's for in the mid $5k's range. However, I don't know about buying used by mail.

Any thoughts on these 2 mandolins?

Bob

[Greg H.]

Well the Sam Bush wouldn't have a red spruce top (those were usually Sitka). The Daley Standard would only have the top bound (rather than top, back, neck, and peghead), but then you'd be getting a new Daley as opposed to a used Bush. Also, I've seem some great Bushs, and then some just sorta Ok but Bush models . . ..whereas I've never seen a Daley I didn't really love.

I guess, in all my wandering around here, is that for a Bush I'd want to find the right one without ordering it, whereas I'd feel more comfortable ordering the Daley.

[Chris Biorkman]

There is a nice looking Bush in the classifieds right now. If you think that is something that you might want, I'd just do it. I would only buy from a seller that provided a trial period, that way you make sure that you don't get a lemon.

I've never played a Daley, but they look really nice and I've only heard great things about them. Wait lists always deter me. I don't think I will ever get on one again, but that may change. The two mandolins that I have now are ones that I obtained with no wait whatsoever, so I think you can find what you want at a price you can swallow without waiting too long if you keep your eyes peeled.

[dochardee]

I owned a Daley Classic a few years ago. The sound was all I could ask for, like a Gibson on steroids, not surprising considering Sim worked for Gibson with Charlie Derrington. I had a problem with Sim not giving me exactly what I ordered and wanted on the neck but I adapted to it. He is a bit of a prima donna to work with. Like his website says "Sim Daley builds the best mandolin on the planet!" Jeezus, what an ego. However, waiting for a few years on delivery would deter me from ordering another one. Too many great mandolins available right now. That Bush in the classifieds does look interesting.

I had to give up mandolin a few years ago due to nerve damage in the left arm, but finally got that repaired and am looking forward to getting the Silverangel I just ordered from Ken. I like the mojo he has going.

[re simmers]

What specifically didn't you get on the neck? Ego doesn't bother me. However, it would bother me to put down $1,000 and wait 14 months for something that is wrong.

[Mike Snyder]

Seems that there are good/better/best when it comes to Bush mandos. It may be of no consequence, but there is a Bush at Janet Davis Music that will IN NO WAY be considered just another Gibson. It's so good that it may not still be there. Kinda far from home, for you, and it's a new instrument with the new price tag, but $8,999 is just a list price. I have no knowledge of Daley instruments. I,ve played several Bush mandos. That one is a monster.

[dochardee]

re simmers, I asked Sim to duplicate the neck shape of my Collings MF-5 exactly. I prefer a sharp V neck and the Collings was perfect. I even sent Sim templates and offered to ship him the MF-5. Not that it is that hard to borrow or inspect an MF-5 in Nashville. When I finally got the mandolin Sim had put his rounded neck profile on it. When I complained his response was "well if you were that picky about the neck you should have come to Nashville to play it in the white." Man was I pissed. I should have made him eat that mandolin. The sound was so compelling I decided to keep it. At least until I had to take a hiatus from playing.

[chip]

Interesting thread...
I'd buy some with the understanding that if you don't like them you can return them. You'd only be out the shipping and for that kind of investment I'd certainly want to play some before purchasing...
For me...I like Gibsons, own three of them along with a Gilchrist. Always liked the Gibson Goldrush, didn't much care for the Collings and definately didn't care for the finish's...Daley's look great but never played one. Ya just gotta play em' man...:grin:

[re simmers]

That story about Daley is the first negative one i've heard. According to my emails from Sim over a month ago, he keeps the 25% down. If I decide not to take the mandolin he will try to sell it on his website. If he sells it I get my deposit back. If not, I lose it. I don't remember how long he tries to sell it. I delete my emails about once a month.

[Greg Potter]

Well, I have never played a Daley but hope to one of these days. As for the Bush models, I have played probably a dozen, most of them pretty good and couple of them exceptional. I happen to own the one in the classifieds and would put it in the exceptional column. Not trying to peddle my mandolin on the forum but just contribute my experience with them. I find that you get an openess (is that a word....looks funny) with the Bush models that you don't get with a lot of other mandolins. This is something that I have experienced on just about every one I have played. This is my second Bush and my aunt owns another one. All three have different qualities......two of them deep and bassy, and my recent one more midrange and punch but strangely with lots of bottom end too. All of them having what I would call big round notes and wide open. In the days of 10-20K mandos, I think they are a bargain.

[re simmers]

I'm closing in on a decision. I've heard of one bad experience with ordering a Daley, which was the wrong size neck. That would be a major problem for me. That, combined with the 14 month is the the only thing keeping me from ordering. The Bush that Greg has looks like a good one, but I'm not sure about the extra $800, plus no warranty.

Any more experiences with Sim Daley, or purchasing a good used mandolin by mail?

[Mike Romkey]

I recently bought a Gibson Adam Steffey F-5 via email from a dealer who said it was an exceptional mandolin. He was right. I've played a lot of mediocre mandolins, but the signature Fs are a cut above, in the good/better/best continuum mentioned earlier. If you can get it on approval, what do you have to lose but shipping costs for a return?

[Chris Biorkman]

Never bought used, but I've sold three or four nice ones on the classifieds.

[chip]

I've seen a number of used Gibson Sam Bush models for sale in the past. You should be able to pick one up alot less than $9000...You might want to expand your range a little and play some others, Bibey's, Benson's, etc...

[Jeff Wheelock]

Bob,

You can't go wrong with either one based on my experience. My varnished Daley has been getting better every day since I picked it up in August 2007. I live close enough to N'ville that I was able to visit Sim's shop while it was in the white. He was willing to make any adjustments to the neck but I found it needed none. When it developed some finish issues earlier this year, I took it back and Sim did a french polish in a day and got it back to me before I left town, no charge of course. So I have been very happy with Sim. And the mando is becoming a monster. That said, I've played two Bush models and they were both wonderful as well.

[Rick Crenshaw]

My two experiences with Sim were more than fine. I live three hours away and Sim really wanted me to come up and play it in the white so he could check the tone to see if I was happy and to shave the neck to my preferences. I'm very satisified.

To be fair to dochardee, he told me about his experience with the neck on his Daley and to my knowledge this is the first time he's posted about it publicly. The neck was critical to him and he was disappointed in the shape he got after waiting a long time. I'd probably be unhappy too. But he acknowledges that the tone was great. Stuff happens. Buying used with a trial period is the only sure fire way of knowing EXACTLY what you're getting. There are used Daleys out there somewhere. Patience is often required to get what you want... with either mandolin.

[Nolan]

I had a problem with Sim not giving me exactly what I ordered and wanted on the neck but I adapted to it. He is a bit of a prima donna to work with. Like his website says "Sim Daley builds the best mandolin on the planet!" Jeezus, what an ego.

Most of the builders I've ever talk to claim to make the best mandolins on the planet.... and most have stories of how they made a mandolin for someone who owned a Loar and they prefer their new custom over the Loar. I guess if you have someone building you something then you would want them to believe it's the best... but I've noticed the same thing about getting what you order. It's almost seems like when you give some custom builders your specs that they are taking them more as a goal or guideline but they will do exactly what they want in the end.

[AlanN]

[QUOTEIt's almost seems like when you give some custom builders your specs that they are taking them more as a goal or guideline but they will do exactly what they want in the end.[/QUOTE]

Not Gilchrist, for one.

[re simmers]

Thanks for the feedback. I have decided on a Daley. I just need to make the decision on Englemann or Red Spruce top.

The phone calls, emails, etc. from some people I know, and some I don't.....have been overwhelming......Sim's overall reputation is super. That was the deciding factor.

Bob

[mandomania7923]

I say you made a good call on the daley, even though both are great instruments. As far as Englemann or red, that is really a personal option. If you can, play a bunch of both, if you can't, study about them on the cafe.

[Emonortem]

Congrats on the Daley, man!

Steffey and Mougin are both playing Englemann Daleys. Not sure if they have recorded with them yet, but if you can check them out live you can hear what they're sounding like. Quite a bit different than the Red Spruce.