Phoenix Mandos

[Mark53]

I spent about three hours at Mandolin Bros on Saturday looking to get my first mandolin. I have been a guitatist for 25 years so I have a good idea of what a quality instrument is. I can hear the differences between models and brands.
I was there with a great mandolin player who played a number of them for me, along with a professional guitarist (my brother).

There were mandolins that cost upwards of $7,000.00 and none of them sounded better, played better, were better constructed or more beautiful than the Phoenix Bluegrass model, costing a fraction of what the "High End" instruments cost.

I know that that scroll can't cost $3,000-$4,000 to make and if it does somethings just not right.It didn't improve the sound over the two point Phoenix. Just seemed like an expensive strap hanger.

What gives here? An old guitar player (future mando player), would like to know.

[JimD]

Mark,

Rolfe Gerhardt (of Phoenix) simply produces an instrument that has exceptional craftsmanship and attention to detail on every level. My prefered model is the Neoclassical (I don't play bluegrass). I have had a number of instruments (including Gibsons) that haven't come close to the sound and flexibility of my Phoenix.

As to why the "scroll" costs more -- I haven't a clue.

Mark, it's just a matter of choices & many of us consider Phoenix one of the best kept secrets of the mandolin world (no secret really).

Tone, volume, playability & build quality....Phoenix has it all in spades & at an affordable price. Why aren't they more popular.....beats me?

I'm also a big fan of the elegantly understated NeoBluegrass model.

[jlb]

They are great sounding, great looking, great playing mandos, and to your average Joe are expensive as all get-out.

[Lee]

I've sampled several Phoenix mandolins (Phoeni ?) and have owned a Deluxe for a year orso. The attention he puts into each one must be phenominal because each one is a little work of art with superlative craftsmanship. they are extremely sensitive; lots of tone with very little effort. the neck/fretboard geometry is exquistely fast and comfortable. You've got to play one of these beauties to understand it. The body shape makes them unique and as far as popularity goes; the scroll rules. If you want to dance to another beat; go Phoenix. Y'might never go back.

[Winks]

I have - and I won't. The Phoenix Bluegrass I got a couple weeks ago simply blows away everything else I've tried - that includes Rigel, Collings, Gibsons, you name it. The clear brilliance on all notes, deep bass and bell like upper register knocks me out everytime I play it. And, it plays so easy. I can't understand why Phoenix doesn't garner more attention. Sure, it doesn't look like your average "F" - but then who wants to be average?
Winks

[Mark53]

Winks, and everyone else who offered their opinion.

I still have to say, there was nothing at any price that sounded as good.
I think if the mandolin community could get over "scroll envy" Phoenix would be much more popular.

I think I will pull the trigger on one this Saturday.

Thanks for the help.

[ootee1]

Can anyone comment on the bass sound of the newer models ('04)? I just received my Bluegrass and it's simply beautiful but I'm a bit surprised it doesn't quite have the oomph that some of the older ones have - even one that they have hanging on the wall at Mandolin Brothers which I think is an 04 seems to have more bass. Is it just a question of playing it? Mark, did you receive yours yet? What do you think??

[JimD]

I play a neoclassical, which is quite different from the Bluegrass. That being said, any fine wooden instrument will open up and develop its true character only after time and playing.

Setup is important as well. Is the bridge placed correctly and well-seated? Do you have the best possible strings (in appropriate guages) on it?

I have had my Phoenix for over 3 years now and it still seems to be improving. I recently played on a number of brand new Phoenixes which were all quite wonderful. I was glad to get beck to my own, though -- set up the way I like it, my favorite strings and three years of "breaking-in".

The one variable that we often don't think about is the player's ability to find the "sweet spot". We play best on an instrument that we know intimately. This kind of thing can't really be quantified or explained. It isn't even (at least for me) a conscious thing. We just KNOW how to make that sound...

[Mark53]

ootee1 ,

No, I haven't deceided yet. I played both Bluegrass models at Mandolin Brothers on Saturday. Still not sure what to do.
The bass on both was strong. Had to raise the action on one of them to get it right.
Everytime I play an instrument at Mandolin Bros I hear something different, so I am still in the "process'.
I will be back at Mandolin Bros on Saturday (I live 4 blocks away), and try to sort it out.

From what some very good players tell me , the Phoenix will open up and the sound will be hard to beat ( I am sure yours will too).

[ootee1]

Mark - living four blocks away from Mandolin Brothers would be both blessing and curse! It took me 3 1/2 hours to get there from CT a few weeks ago. That Phoenix they have for $3200 sounded a lot better than the newer $3600 model imho. I wonder if that means the older priced one has opened up and the newer one has yet to. I'm still trying to decide what to do with the one I have. I'm sure the seller is getting antsy for me to make a decision... It has opened up a bit already. Good luck with your decision!

[Mark53]

ootee1,

I have to say that I have tremendous self control. Living so close to Mandolin Bros is like you say "a blessing and a curse". The thing is that I am there so often, and played so many instruments that I find it takes a real special instrument to jump out and get my attention.

As to the two Phoenix Bluegrass models there. Most people who play the $3,600 one like it better than the $3,240 one.

They say the bass is deeper and it is louder. I have to agree, although the older one is still great.

All very subjective I guess.

Good luck with your decision. From my experience with guitars, I found that the "right" one speaks to you when you pick it up. When you find it there are no doubts.

[Kevin Briggs]

Hey, you guys are really tempting me. I just read this thread after a year or whatever, and damn.... I have grown attached to my custom Bitteroot Weber, since it's the first nice mandolin I've owned (Breedlove Spirit was the last one I owned, Morgan Monroe before that, Alvarez A-style before that, Stella...you get the picture). However, I'm not averse to trading in if I find somethingthat speaks to me. I wish I could play a Phoenix soon, but I don't know anywhere near Lancaster, PA that has one.

How does a Phoneix Bluegrass model match up with a Maple Bitteroot with Tone bars and trad. bridge?

[Brian Aldridge]

Rolfe Gerhardt is a fantastic builder in terms of a great sounding and playing mandolin. I am surprised no one has snatched that Unicorn Master Model up yet that is at Elderly's. I understand the argument that the scroll is not what makes a mandolin sound good, but I will go out on a limb and say had Rolfe focused on building F5s he would be in the same camp as Gilchrist in regard to waiting list/selling price.

[evanreilly]

Rolfe is probably approaching the 400 instrument mark in his production, if he is not past there already. That is a lot of sawdust and experimentation.
That is partially what makes his instruments so great.

[Thomas]

I've owned 2 Phoenix bluegrass models. #One, made in 2000 and one in 2003. #Both were superb. #If I were in the market for a mandolin, I'd but another Phoenix in a heartbeat. #Nothing beats it for the price, IMHO, and I've owned Rigel, Gibson, Flatiron and Collings. #Rolfe is a great guy, too. #In fact, I quit playing mandolin about a year ago, but still keep up with the board. #I'm about to tempt myself into buying one now. #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[judith]

I have a Phoenix Deluxe - essentially a neo-classical with a built-in pickup. Its always curious to me to read replies from folks who extoll the virtues of a particular mando but then indicate that they no longer have it. I hope I am set for life - that is - that I don't go chasing after something else that I think I want. I have the Phoenix, with its woody, even tone across strings and its wonderful playability, and an old Gibson A that is loud and more ringing than woody. For me, this covers both ends of the spectrum of desired sound. BTW, I live in Philadelphia and would be glad to let someone try out the Phoenix. I am almost always playing with friends on Tuesday nights. Judith

[Lee]

er, I think the Deluxe is constructed differently than the NeoClassical because Rolfe allows the Deluxe to accept heavier strings whereas the NeoClassical should only be strung lightly.
Glad to hear she's found a good home. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[ootee1]

Since this thread began last year, I found my way to buying a used Bluegrass and I absolutely love it (thanks again Kevin!). I'm a duffer by any stretch but to me it plays and sounds much better than many other mandos I've tried out. What really can't be appreciated about these instruments until you've actually played one is how light it is. I think I read somewhere that the lack of heft actually lets the instrument resonate more freely.

[PatrickH]

I own the Neoclassical and love Phoenix mandolins in general. Rolfe builds some of the finest, most elegant instruments I have played. I can honestly say I have never picked one up that I did not think was great.

But they "blow away" a Collings? No freakin way. That is just not accurate. Collings is right there with Phoenix in fit, finish, craftmanship, quality and sound.

[evanreilly]

Here is a little video of the Phoenix Bluegrass Master Model in action...
not a studio recording.. but it is a sample...

Linda Lou (http://world.std.com/~ereilly/lindalou.avi)