Rebuilding a pac rim

[Rob Powell]

I bought this pac rim mando on ebay with the specific purpose of seeing whether I could do anything with it. I had heard that this particular branded mando sounded decent but needed some set-up and I thought it might be a way for me to get my feet wet since I don't currently have the time to finish building the one I have semi-started from scratch.

So, I've discovered:

1) Tuning key placement needs to be adjusted.
2) Tailpiece was misaligned as well.
3) Several bad frets (too high AND too low.)
4) A few "bubbles" in the finish but nothing you see without close inspection.

Other than that, it's really not too bad. It does in fact sound pretty good, notes well where the frets aren't bad, neck is dead straight and the burst is surprisingly nice.

My plan is to:

1) Remove and replace the nut and peghead veneer.
2) Definitely refret but possibly replace the entire fingerboard.
3) Replace the tailpiece and pickguard.

I'm also considering modifying the peghead as the scroll up there is a little rough and modifying the body shape as I don't like the points and the scroll there really shouldn't even be called a scroll. Of, course doing these would require I refinish the entire mando.

Is this just way more trouble than the benefit I will get from the learning experience? I'm not trying to turn this into a high quality instrument, just one that's a little more appealing and playable.

As always, I appreciate your comments and advice!

[Lieufire]

Hey Rob,
I know a couple of guys in my area (Richmond, VA) that had taken solid wood pac rim mandos and made real good sounding ones out of them. But most took the finish completely off and sanded the outside thinner and some even took the back off and regraduated the top and back. Almost as much work as building, but they really improved withthe work.
Mark

[Rroyd]

Hopefully, you will get suggestions and comments from other posters; but here's my two cents. I would avoid replacing the fingerboard, since the neck is straight, and replacing a few frets will put it back in shape. You could create new problems if it didn't come off easily, and end up compromising the present integrity of the neck. Redoing the peghead, on the other hand, would certainly be worth doing, and would also allow you to correct the tuners' positioning by plugging the old holes with dowel, replacing the overlay, and then refitting or replacing the tuners, and then refinishing. (Remember, no flowerpot inlays allowed) As to your thoughts about refinishing the body, there have been some cafe discussions about PacRim mandolin finishes, and if I recall correctly, removal of the original finish bordered on being a real nightmare, as common procedures for removal did not work.

[sunburst]

My $0.02.

Do you want to learn? If so, go ahead! Who cares what the mandolin turns out like? Might be better, might be a disaster, but you wont be compromising anything of any particular current or future value (probably).
I wish some of the instruments I've fixed over the years had been safe from the DIY types that hacked them and instead they had been learning on the equivalent of Ebay items of the day.

I don't mean to suggest that you are going to do a hack job on this mandolin, I'm just saying it is the appropriate type of instrument to learn on.

[Rob Powell]

Mark - Your friends who removed the top and back were much more adventurous than I am http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif Honestly, if I had the time to do that, I'd probably keep building the one I'm doing from scratch instead.

Rroyd - It's already got a flowerpot http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif and I agree, replacing the fingerboard was something I wasn't sure about anyway. Same for refinishing, might be too much time involved. Thanks for the hints about the perhead!

John - You're right! The very reason I got this was because it was solid top back and sides and I didn't pay anywhere near what the wood alone would have cost me. I certainly won't cry if it turns out as firewood. I know you aren't suggesting that I'm going to hack it up but that possibility certainly exists http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

It will either turn out to be something nice or something that I can probably re-sell on ebay as a "project" mando.

Thanks,

[jim simpson]

I bought an older pac-rim project that had a cracked top. I thought I would first try repairing it to see what that would be like. I ended up also refinishing it and was pleased with the appearance. For some reason the top kept flattening out as I retuned it. I think I might have rethinned an already too thin top. I have a joined piece of spruce from a long ago project that never came to be. I plan to send it to Roger Siminoff so it can be carved into a new top and then apply it to this project. Certainly a learning experience!

[c3hammer]

I did this to a Kentucky KM150s. I completely removed the finish and worked the tone bars down in height through the F-holes. I had also completely refretted and radiused the finger board.

It sounded much better, but 4 days after I finished it with Tru-Oil, I tossed it onto my gig bag and the peg head hit the carpeted floor from about 8" or 10" with a little "ping" sound.

The neck joint on them is only a couple of 6mm dowl pins and some weird adhesive almost like body putty or bondo.

Needless to say all that work was completely wasted. The Webber I bought to replace it has turned out to be the best toy I've purchased in a long time. I could have bought 3 new $1500 mando's for the amount of time I wasted on the kentucky. I did learn alot and it was actually fun to tweak and hear what it would change, but....

In the end of the day, I would say to build your own from scratch or simply set up the current one as well as you can and play it until you can buy or build what you really want.

Dress the frets, fit the bridge base to the top, make a new nut and forget the rest.

Cheers,
Pete

[Rob Powell]

Ok, before I tackle this...here is an example of what I've got (not the same mando but the same issue.) What's wrong with this picture? Are the tuning keys in the wrong place, is the nut mis-aligned or is it just the nut slots? Or am I just anal retentive in wanting the strings not to bend around more than one tuning peg?

[Rob Powell]

Here's one that looks right to me although the strings don't appear to be under full tension...on the first pic, it's the second G that bends around the first G tuning peg and that's precisely what I have...

[sunburst]

A lesson I learned a long time ago:
When you design a peghead, draw in the tuner posts and strings to be sure the strings clear the posts on their way to their destination on another post.
That peghead is too narrow, or the tuner holes are positioned too far inboard. That isn't easy to fix once it's done.
It's mainly an asthetic problem unless the string buzzes against the tuner post. I've seen that happen.

They apparently hired an inexperienced designer when they were developing that mando and once it was in production it was too expensive to change.

One of the differences in cheap instruments and better instruments is the amount of design elements that are left to chance (cheap) rather than planned (more expensive).

Also, notice the truss rod cover screw that you can't get too with a screwdriver because it's under the strings? How much planning did that take?

And, while I'm on this rant, sometimes I take truss rod covers off to adjust necks and find that they didn't leave room to put a wrench on the nut! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

I could keep going but I feel better now http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif .

[Rob Powell]

Thanks John...

Yeah, I knew it was going to be a lot of work but as I said, it's learning for me.

The strings don't buzz but the extra tension makes it a bit more difficult to tune. If I have to tune the first G the second G gets outta whack. I also have the same issue on the E strings.

I'm doing a bunch of rework on this thing anyway so I might as well fix the aesthetics too!

[jasona]

As far as I know, having the strings touch another post is cosmetic and does not affect tone. The nut look slotted correctly on the image you provided (although it needs a string change bad! ;) ).

[Fretbear]

I say go for it, but if you get cold feet and still want to solve your rubbing strings problem, here is a solution; get a pair of #"Graph-Tec" string trees from Stew-mac. They screw into the peghead face and act as a string guide just like the similar devices on many Fender electric instruments. Usually one tree has two strings running through, but they also work with just one (one for the G and one for the E) It will solve your tuning problem, if you don't mind the look....