Me,am I the odd man out?

[Rick Schmidlin]

I have jammed with others but I seem to take my music more personal. I really don't like jamming, I can't get into it. I like to play on my couch and mix my tunes to feel my mood ala John Fahey. I like to play for family, my cat, friends and anybody who listens (mostly the cat). I once played on a park bench and was offered a sanwhich. I know after five years I should play with others. I like to play along with CD's sometime but not that much.I play one to three hours a day and am starting to get into more serious studies.

Am I the odd man out here?

[Bigtuna]

You may be limiting yourself. Try finding someone with similar taste in music, I know its hard. But, its great when it comes together, and you always learn something when it doesn't. I really enjoy playing solo at the house, but I really think its well worth playing with as many people as you can.

[Scotti Adams]

So..what are you saying? You dont play well with others? :))

[Mike Bunting]

Or do you just like playing with yourself? :))

[Rick Schmidlin]

Well I like to play when my girlfriend whistlers and when the cat purrs.:redface:

[SternART]

Hey man......you're missing half the fun......I'm mostly woodsheding, playing solo, so I'm ready when I get to play with others. Learning to feel the "groove" and interact with others is "special" ....... I recommend it!!! That said, my "best" experiences are when I'm the worst player, or I sit in with an actual band. That kinda setting allows me to play better than I usually do, it is inspiring to respond to rhythm, or back up a hot solo.......when I'm the worst one, sitting in with pros, or a band...... for me anyway, is an experience beyond what I usually get in a typical jam situation.......Hey, it must be cool to be in a good band (but I have no intention of playing out) .....heck, I'd be happy to just find some compatible pickers......who want to get together regularly & who like the same kinda tunes to build a history with, I've been in situations like this in the past, but folks move away, join bands, etc.......so.....playing with others is in my opinion HIGHLY RECOMMENDED!!!

[Mike Bunting]

In all seriousness, music is communication, whether it the spreading of info and/or cultural values or the spiritual aspect of emotional connection with others. There is nothing else better than the sharing of a groove with another player, or just sharing some tunes and drinking a beer!

[Rick Schmidlin]

and drinking a beer!

I don't drink anymore.:crying:

[Laird]

If you just aren't comfortable playing with others but you enjoy playing on your own, there's nothing wrong with that.

Like others on here, what keeps me playing out is the opportunity to find a groove with other players, which is one of the most transcendent sensations I've ever felt. Maybe the way in (if you're even interested in going there) is to start with one other person--a guitar player makes sense--and learn some songs together. When your accompaniment lifts the song to another level, or when you find a really sweet harmony, that may be enough to get you hooked.

Or you may decide that you're happiest playing solo. Like I said, there's nothing wrong with that.

[Mike Bunting]

"I don't drink anymore."

Any less?

[Mike Scott]

Hey Tonemaster, I am right there with you. Both on guitar and now on mandolin. I play mainly to occupy time and to learn new stuff. Any music being made is totally as side benefit. I've only been playing mandolin for about a year and would be nervous as a cat to have to play in a jam or something. I would be totally confident in any type of guitar setting-as long as it was in the genre that I typically play. I probably should go to a camp or something to get over the musical shyness I have developed I guess. :redface:

[jim_n_virginia]

I have jammed with others but I seem to take my music more personal. I really don't like jamming, I can't get into it.

You like performing more than interacting socially through music is all. Nothing wrong with that.

I know lots of people who don't like jamming.

I once asked a very well known and accomplished mandolin player if he ever jammed with friends and went to an occasional jam and he looked at me like I was insane and said "No pay, no play! " LOL!

[Charley wild]

I agree with Jim, Mike and Laird. Nothing wrong with it. I like doing the same thing. B.B. King is another great musician who doesn't like to jam. I'm working on all sorts of chord formations and strumming them. If I was to do that at a jam session someone would tell me that it's the wrong way to play or whatever. I can sit and strum all sorts of chords for an hour at a time. Just start a groove and just go with.
I jam some on my lap steel but it's just a social thing really. So go ahead and suit your self. It's your time and your mandolin!

[Soupy1957]

There is an uneasy pressure in a Jam setting that "I" have felt..........it's not very comfortable when you are using an instrument that you are not too confident with.

I'm like that with the mando............so when I go to the monthly jam in my neck of the woods, I have tried both bringing my guitar (which I am very confident and comfortable with), as well as my mandolin, and also just brought my mandolin, (hoping to force myself to face my uncomfortableness).

In the end, the group setting, although uncomfortable, is a way to challenge yourself. A way to grow. It may be a tad embarrassing at times, like when you play a completely WRONG chord at a time when it is definitely the wrong chord and everyone around you grimaces, but it is also a time for growth. Learning to laugh at yourself, is a big plus. Don't take yourself (I'm preaching to myself now), so seriously. It's about "enjoying" the music, and enjoying the learning.

[journeybear]

While I agree with Mike's assessment and some of the input from others regarding the social interaction aspect of playing music, I believe there is also value in playing alone, if for no other reason than you are then free to commune with your own muse. When you are playing with someone else, even if that's your best friend with whom you have a nearly symbiotic empathy, you will bump up against dynamics inherent in social interaction that distract one from one's true self. It's unavoidable.

That's not to say there aren't valuable experiences to be derived from playing with others, nor that there are lessons to be learned from this that you may well not learn from playing by yourself. The best approach probably includes both, in whatever ratio you feel comfortable with. But given a choice between playing with others who are not on the same wavelength or at a close enough skill level - better or worse - and spending some time with just my mandolin and my muse, I'll take the latter nine times out of ten. That other 10%? That's my curiosity getting the better of me.

I don't think I've written even five songs that have arisen directly from interacting with others, apart from picking up on some turn of phrase. Songwriting is a personal, private process - not that I'm opposed to collaboration, but it's like problem-solving, in that I enjoy figuring out what and how I'm trying to express my inspiration. It is intensely frustrating trying to get other people to play my songs - not that they're that difficult (some are) but they're new to them, and somehow resistent to learning them. So as much as I enjoy going yet another time around "Salty Dog" or riffing on a blues shuffle in E - or better yet, A - there's a built-in limit to my interest.

So, a lot of the time I'd just as soon have some fun with the mandolin without worrying about anyone else's taste or value system. But what do you expect - after all, I learned to play by sitting in a field, enjoying the sun and flowers and birds and butterflies and silence, melding my musical excursions with that. And, much as Woody Allen once quipped about another solitary activity, at least it's with someone I love. ;)

[Barbara Shultz]

I would say that trying to find another musician or so, to PLAY with, not necessarily a true JAM, would be the way to go. I do play in a band, but we don't have THAT many gigs.... however, we DO get together about twice a week, for 'practice'. It's a social/practice thing...complete with snacks, libatations, and then usually, Donna feeds us dinner, as well!

[Mike Bunting]

My comments were not about jamming or not but about the importance of playing with others. Lotsa jams I'm not interested in and just because B.B, King and Tony Rice don't jam, I'd bet my bottom dollar that they play with others.

[Tim2723]

At least you got a sandwich. I got arrested. I'm not kidding.

[journeybear]

OK, but did you get at least a baloney sandwich in the hoosegow? :confused:

Actually, I'm not sure Rick got a sandwich - he was just offered one. Or did he accept the deal? I've been given food as a "tip" while busking, which is nice, but weird. I'm clearly not in danger of starving. :grin:

Once, though, I did get paid in food. After spending two weeks stranded in a truck stop in the Sierras (I'm sparing y'all from a really long story) during which time I wrote my first and only bluegrass song about the place and the colorful characters for whom this was a social center, I played this song for the owner, waitresses, cook, and regulars the night before we left. They loved it, and one of the regulars bought me a burger deluxe, pie and coffee. That was the birth of my professional songwriting career! :mandosmiley:

We now return you to our regularly scheduled programming, already in progress ...

[CES]

At least you got a sandwich. I got arrested. I'm not kidding.

So, did you have your clothes on, or was this one of those...oh, never mind! :grin:

In all seriousness, I've always found it odd that in some places free live music is considered a nuisance along with skateboarding, loitering, etc....not that I generally mind those guys, either...

I generally don't feel my skills are up to really jamming with folks who've been at it for a while, or who just have "it" (For the record, I don't have the proverbial "it." I'm a scrapper, but the talent ain't there, ya'll). Everytime I do it I have a light bulb type moment with something or at least leave really motivated to improve as a player, but I primarily play alone or to the dogs...wife and kids tolerate me except with the banjo (which the kids like but the wife scorns). The dogs'll put up with pretty much anything except the banjo (should be taking a hint somewhere in there, I guess) and lots of distortion if I plug in...


Anyway, Rick, I primarily play for a release (with the hours I put in at work a couple hours at the gym isn't happening), to learn something new outside of what I usually do, and just cause it's fun. Most of my friends know I play, and some even think I'm pretty good (even a couple of the ones who've heard me), but most haven't heard me play yet. It'll happen eventually, but I'm content playing for my own enjoyment most of the time as well...

[Ivan Kelsall]

If i had the cahnce to,i'd jam all day - no problem !. BUT - there are times when i want to sit down,listen & learn,either to put the finishing touches to a tune i've been teaching myself or to learn 'new' stuff. Either way,i only do that so that if these tunes come up in a jamming situation,i can play them. Everybody's different, & it's 'different strokes for different folks'. If you really don't care to jam at the moment - that's fine - it ain't compulsory,maybe over time,you'll change your mind,that's fine too. Personally,when jamming,i think of it a pitting my musical wits against the other players ( i DON'T meant taking over !!),just to see what i can come up with.As an aside to this,i've always thought that to 'fully' develop as a player,you need other musicians ie.a band,to bounce off of (Oh boy ! - my 'Americanisms' are working ok today i see :grin:),that's why i love to jam,just to 'stretch' myself musically,
Ivan ;)

[Soupy1957]

Absolutely agree with the others in this thread who express a value in playing at home........I call that "practice." Whether by playing along with a CD of some favorite artist of mine, or by playing along with the music on the radio.........or maybe just working some scales in.......I try to keep my mandolin in my hands whenever possible this time around. I have it in an unzipped case, on the couch by the computer.........and every day I see it, .......pick it up..........and play.

(One of the biggest mistakes I made between my beginnings with the mandolin in 2006, and 2007 was NOT keeping the instrument in front of my nose).

[billkilpatrick]

i almost always play in the company of others - dogs are fab'. can you sing? any reticence i have about performing in public or in a group goes away when i'm singing with others. don't know if singing is permitted in a jam situation but if it isn't, i'd go somewhere where people are more relaxed about making music.

[Bertram Henze]

When people ask me "don't you feel like an alien sometimes?", my answer is always "In fact I am from a small planet near Betelgeuse - no problem at all"

But seriously, there is nothing wrong about being the odd man out. However, it should not keep you from playing with others. The experience to play together is just too good to be missed.

But bear in mind: you only have to integrate your playing with the others' playing, you do not have to integrate your personality with any esprit d' corps. You don't even have to know anybody's name to have the pleasure of playing, in fact it is sometimes better not to know what people think. It is ok if your mandolin is your best friend in the room.

It does not have to be a jam strictly organized, any kind of get-together and playing some music together will do.

Bertram

[SternART]

I "do" enjoy the meditative quality that playing alone provides. I'd guess 80% of my playing is practicing solo. I use it to get into he art making mode (my gig)........sometimes it is hard to be creative "on demand" and I use playing music to focus my energy.

[fishdawg40]

I can understand the apprehension about a jam. Sometimes they're really unorganized and your "voice" will get lost. The best advice I heard about playing with others is to find one person to play music with and that will make your playing better exponentially. It's better focus that way.

As for my experience; I never liked jams so I've been an on/off mandolin player for about 9 years. But a year ago I joined a band and their could have been nothing better for my playing. We practice twice a week. When I practice at home now its for a bigger cause than just me. People count on me to get better. It's a driving factor. Also, you want the songs to sound good. And finally you don't want to look like a fool on stage.

So my advice is if you can, get out there and play with anybody as long as it's focused. I believe that's where the beauty lies; communicating with others musically. I can't honestly say that I would keep playing mandolin much longer if I stopped playing with others. My history says it won't happen.

Now, if only I could play what I play at home in front of others.........that's the problem.....

[Steve L]

If you're doing what you want to do, why worry about it?

[journeybear]

Absolutely agree with the others in this thread who express a value in playing at home........I call that "practice."

I dunno, I usually think of practice as being somehow goal-oriented. Learning scales to become more familiar with fingering, learning songs to get ready for performance, learning chord progressions to improve songwriting ability - that's practice. Playing just to make music, or to find inspiration, or to get in touch with your muse, or to reduce the gap between what's in your head and what's in your hands (see below) - that's fun! :mandosmiley:


.......I try to keep my mandolin in my hands whenever possible this time around. I have it in an unzipped case, on the couch by the computer.........and every day I see it, .......pick it up..........and play...

That is such a good idea! My mandolin is about two meters from me as I write this, but I'd have to stand up and reach to get it. Having it right at hand, handy to access at a moment's whim, is a great idea. Though I might find it a bit distracting, and could take me even longer to write or do research than it already does ... not that there's anything wrong with that ... ;)


... Now, if only I could play what I play at home in front of others.........that's the problem.....

No foolin'! I remember reading something Jimi Hendrix said once about being able to play what he "heard" in his mind. I think that's one of the points of practicing as much as some people do, as much as he certainly did - to minimize the gap between thought and sound. :mandosmiley:

[mandocrucian]

Wait......(to paraphrase those DirecTV ads... "Jim, that's just the bluegrass(ers) talking!")

All the recurrent "Jerks at the Jam" threads (i.e. Anger... Whatayado?) provide plenty of reasons to just stay/play at home. Sooner or later, you'll probably "outgrow" the jamming as it becomes a replay of a replay of "been there, done that", as you become more and more of a detached observer with your instrument still locked in the trunk (rather than eager participant) watching some Felliniesque film. It's Thomas Hart Benton fused with R Crumb (and without any drugs). Exagerate some of the overheard conversations and you start thinking about how it could be script dialog for the next John Waters (or Terry Zwigoff) film. Hey...there's Edith Massey sucking on a Bud with a paper plate with giant heap of ketchup soaked french fries, hollering "Hey - MisterBanjoMan, MisterBanjoMan, oh please, please, oh please play me that 'Daybreak In Dixie'."... And sure enough, there he is - the dead ringer for Mister Egg Man straight out of Pink Flamingos, with a dadburned banjo strapped on while some geezer does his 'old-prospecter-dance'. (Note to director: change musical selection for scene to "You Gotta Get Behind The Mule")

It doesn't surprise me that ToneMonster isn't into going to jams. Making the scene?...been there, done that, albeit in the capacity of touring bands' tech/lighting crew. You don't need to be Nigel Tufnel or Derek Smalls to have experienced plenty of Spinal Tap moments. :grin: You've racked up your creds, met/worked with a lot of pro players in various capacities - there's no impetus to prove anything with a recreational pursuit(s) - as he says, it's his own personal sanctuary/mediational alcove/....

And music doesn't have to be a "band pursuit" to have just as much musical validity. All those blues fingerpickers... MS John, Rev Gary Davis. Or folks like Martin Carthy, Tommy Potts, Pierre Bensusan, Roger Nicholson (pioneering UK mt.dulcimer player). And there are a lot of musicians who may be in bands which are essentially "solo player + added rhythm section" - they really just continue to do what they do solo but with some support players to fatten up the sound (or to add some solos in another "voice"). There are a lot of "band" context players who are totally lost and inept at playing in a solo situation - without the band to provide rhythmic momentum, cover up and mask the deficiences of their tone and dynamics, as well as the quality of their lines (gloppy finger pattern trash licks can sound good when you've got chords and a good groove under them but reveal themselves as mere digital diarrhea in isolation). Playing solo (or practicing solo) requires a different mindset and the acquisition of a different set of priorities and skills.


journeybear: No foolin'! I remember reading something Jimi Hendrix said once about being able to play what he "heard" in his mind. I think that's one of the points of practicing as much as some people do, as much as he certainly did - to minimize the gap between thought and sound.

No, That is the WHOLE POINT! (imo) And what's the difference between Hendrix's acoustic solo 12-string version of "Hear My Train A Comin'" and the band versions?...... nothing really, it's just the same thing.


http://people.hsc.edu/faculty-staff/tomv/RodneyDangerfield_Album_no_respect.jpg

Niles H

[journeybear]

Good lawdy! You do have a flair for imagery. :)) I think I was at that jam ... it sounds awfully familiar ... ;) or it could have been any other similar surreally experiences that fall into the "been there - done that - I'm outta here" category. That's why I've gotten more selective, and why there is that 90/10 split between solo and group activities I mentioned. That 10% is an allowance for when curiosity (or these days, longing) gets the better of me.

I don't think my notion of minimizing the gap between thought and sound is the whole point of practicing - it's probably the main point, but in practical applications it is a somewhat esoteric concern. A lot of times, as in the goal-oriented situations I mentioned, it's not necessary to attain that level of intuitive interaction with your instrument, if all you want to do is play a song well at a gig. But it is indeed a worthy goal, and if you do manage to achieve it, a lot of more mundane concerns will be a lot easier to manage.

[Rick Schmidlin]

OK, but did you get at least a baloney sandwich in the hoosegow? :confused:

Actually, I'm not sure Rick got a sandwich - he was just offered one. Or did he accept the deal? I've been given food as a "tip" while busking, which is nice, but weird. I'm clearly not in danger of starving. :grin:


I just had lunch, so I declined. I told this story to the Dean of the University I am at and she loves to tell it to other faculity members in my presence, even the music department,

[Jack Roberts]

My playing time is:

90% on my own
5% practicing with other people,
4% in front of other people on stage
1% in Jams.

I like the 4% on stage best, followed by on my own. I go to jams to learn new stuff and meet new people (which is where I met my friend Tone Monster) and I practice with my group so we can play in front of others.

[Michael Gowell]

I go to four jams and each has its own personality and taste...sometimes you accept an offbeat musician or cliques within a jam for the sake of the practice, sometimes the negs outweigh the pos and you move on. My arc as an eternally beginning musician has been a progression of learning/home practice/playing with others. On banjo I went thru the arc in 2 years, guitar took more than 40 years. So many variables...

sign in local Turkish Coffee Shop window: "Unattended children will be given an expresso and a free puppy."

[HddnKat]

.... however, we DO get together about twice a week, for 'practice'. It's a social/practice thing...complete with snacks, libatations, and then usually, Donna feeds us dinner, as well!

Hey, I wanna' come play with YOUR band! LOL

[Rick Schmidlin]

[QUOTE
It doesn't surprise me that ToneMonster isn't into going to jams. Making the scene?...been there, done that, albeit in the capacity of touring bands' tech/lighting crew. [/QUOTE]

One of the reson I am learning in the way my ol' friend McCoy Tyner told me, practice ,practice , practice (three hours a day) , and that is the way Bud and Richie Powell told him. Practice till you areready to play with others. Which I am not ready yet after three hours a day for five years. Also because over the years my friends Frank Zappa,David Bromberg,Ray Manzareck,Robby Krieger,X,Los Lobos,Steve Berlin, The Cramps, Dave Alvin ,The Blasters,The Go Go's and many others ,all have been friends and musical mentors and all levels I have seen them play I will never achieve. I worked with most one or another with my tech skills.In the future I may develope a skill that a can share with others and thank you all for your comments.

[mandozilla]

Tone! It's not a bad thing to want to play without all the annoyances that come with jamming. For me jamming is a love/hate thing. What I enjoy is picking with my friends and coming up with new material so the jam doesn't get stale, which it can easily do. However, I don't like not being able to hear, unwieldy numbers of jammers, the same old material, show offs, jamhogs, percussionists (I'm a B'grasser), endless fiddle tunes...

I've been in bands before and while I enjoyed the polish that comes with practicing and performing with the same folks for a long period of time, I found that the band (at least the ones I was part of) tends to get lazy and rely on the same old material, polished though it may be, so it becomes the same old, same old.

I think, at least for me, the best scenario is a jam band. You know, playing with people you like and not necessarily to perform in public. You seem to get the best parts of being in a band and the best parts of jamming. I'm fortunate to have landed in that situation and I'm as happy as pig in ****. I do still attend jams though, I guess I'm a glutton for punishment. And BTW, I do spend a lot of time playing solo (practicing at home) and enjoy the heck out of it. :grin:

~o):mandosmiley: