Solvents for French Polishing

[herickson]

I've just about completed my #1, and am thinking about finishes. I'm drawn to french polish techniques because of the envionmentally friendly aspect. I've heard that the best kind of solvent to use for the shellac is pure grain ethyl alcohol, the purer the better. My question: is it better to use everclear (190 proof / 95% pure) with no harmful additives, or something like a 200 proof denatured alcohol? I know the denatured alcohol is much cheaper, but I'm a bit concerned about the additives used to 'denature' it. On the other hand, is 190 proof everclear going to give me problems due to the 5% water content? Anybody have any experience with using either of these (or other) solvents? Thanks.
-- Herb

[Chris Baird]

Everclear works best for me. Some denatured alcohols are nearly as good as grain alcohol and some are terrible. The group of chemicals that fall under the term "alcohol" are wide and varied; some are not even related to eachother save the namesake. Most alcohols are not suitable for french polishing. You might try some denatured that is available to you but I think you will find grain alcohol works the best.

[Jim Hilburn]

I just did some research on this and what Shellac.com sells is called anhydrous alcohol with less than 5% denaturing.

[Darryl Wolfe]

I use Everclear pure grain alcohol. It seems to give a quicker, harder, drying property to it.

[Lynn Dudenbostel]

I'm a Golden Grain man myself. It's just a bit cheaper than Everclear in a large bottle and I can't tell the difference in tas.... uh, the end result. There are about a dozen ways to "denature" alcohol, and some have benzene in them. Not good for something you will have your hands in for hours. I buy Crown brand from Lowes and it's denatured with other alcohols, probably methanol since it metions blindness as a possibility after consumption. Some, I believe denature with isopropyl. I use denatured only for clean-up.

Lynn

[herickson]

Thanks all, for the replies. I saw the 200 proof stuff at Shellac.net (in case anyone was looking its .net, not .com for some reason), and I wasn't sure what they denatured it with. Good to know that Everclear works well; that's probably the least harmful to your body. I'll have to look at the Golden Grain as well; I guess you're saying that if it's denatured with other alcohols (methanol or isopropyl) then its not too dangerous to work with (either fumes or absorption)?

Can't wait to get started. I'll be doing a lot of testing on scrap wood, especially since I would like to figure out how to do both FP and a sunburst. Not sure yet how to go about this. If anyone has ideas, I'd love to hear them. Thanks again.

[sunburst]

I have Golden Grain too for the same reason, price. It's the same product as Everclear, just a different brand.

In college, in the organic chemestry lab, we had 200 proof absolute alcohol. It has to be chemically separated from the water that remains after distilling, that's what anhydrous means; no water. It might be available from a chemical company, but it's very expensive, and at least in the college lab, had to be inventoried and every ml. accounted for.

I understand that most of the time ethanol (grain alcohol) is denatured with methanol, but whatever is used, it's toxic. That's the whole reason to denature - to keep you from drinking it without serious health damage. Methanol, and probably other denaturing poisons can be absorbed through the skin, so I don't want to use it other than for clean up like Lynn suggested.

Does it seem strange to anyone else that the law requires that alcohol be made poisonous so that it can blind or kill you just to keep you from getting drunk without paying the tax? Ah well, must not get too political.

[sledge]

Another reason to use everclear is the ability to pour a bit in your tea/oj/coke/sprite. Makes for a warm finish and a warm luthier as long as you don;t over do it. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[WoodyMcKenzie]

What's wrong with just buying shellac already mixed up? I just looked at the zinsser.com site and it appears that they sell it as pure lac with only alcohol added. I can buy their Bulls-eye brand at the local hardware store. Seems too easy...

Woody

[Michael Lewis]

Woody, it is too easy. Once mixed there is a shelf life. You can store shellac flakes forever if you keep them dry and cool. I doubt you will find any violin makers that use pre mixed shellac, but they do use pre mixed oil varnish.

[Rob Grant]

FWIW, I use what they call "Methylated Spirits" here in Oz.
The label says 96% ethanol. Here's some advice: work in front of an exhaust fan and wear light rubber gloves when laying on F.P. using any of the denatured alcohol solvents. The stuff is absorbed by the skin and nerve damage is a possibility.

Hey,I thought "Everclear" was a rock band from L.A.!<G>

Rob, FarOutNorthQueensland,Oz.

[WoodyMcKenzie]

Michael--

Thanks! Yes, I had read about it having a shelf life, but still, how is it that the Zinsser company successfully sells their product premixed? Maybe it doesn't matter so much using it on furniture. They sell it in a spray can-- I had thought I might use this as a sealer, since I am just a hobbyist and don't have spray equipment.

Rob (and others)--

Just FYI, methyl alcohol is indeed a good bit more poisonous than ethyl alcohol. Breathing it is a very quick way to kill some brain cells. Since denatured alcohol may have other even more nasty chemicals in it, it just makes better since to use pure ethyl alcohol to dissolve your shellac. Someone mentioned earlier that there may even be benzene in some denatured alcohols. I don't know if this is true, but benzene is a known carcinogen. It is also found in traces in gasoline. Don't smell gas fumes either!!

Woody

[Bill Snyder]

For what it is worth Fank Ford gives a review of the Zinsser Bulls Eye shellac. He concludes that it seems to be a premixed shellac worth using. See his review Here. (http://www.frets.com/FRETSPages/Luthier/ProductReviews/Materials/Zinsser/zinsser.html)
Note that the product he is reviewing is Zinsser Bulls Eye Seal Coat Sanding Sealer. Zinsser also sells Bulls Eye Shellac. The Seal Coat Sanding Sealer has been de-waxed but the Bulls Eye Shellac has not been de-waxed.

[P Josey]

During the Mando Builders Super Summit on the Co-mando site, Charley Derrington mentioned Zinsser Bulls-eye Seal Coat Universal Sanding Sealer. He stated he used to mix his own flakes but now, thanks to Frank Ford, he uses this product. It has a 3 year shelf life.

[douglas2cats]

During the Mando Builders Super Summit on the Co-mando site, Charley Derrington mentioned Zinsser Bulls-eye Seal Coat Universal Sanding Sealer. He stated he used to mix his own flakes but now, thanks to Frank Ford, he uses this product. It has a 3 year shelf life.

My Aug 04 Fine Woodworking mag showed up yesterday and they seem to be echoing the exact same sentiments.