American Idol

[Dfyngravity]

A mandolin sighting on American Idol on the song written by Steve Martin. Steve played the ba*&o.....but there was a mandolin!

[Santiago]

Now Rod Stewart's out there singing Maggie Mae. Big night for mainstream mandolin.

[Mark Robertson-Tessi]

Someone told me earlier it was Scott Gates who was supposed to be playing.

Cheers
MRT

[frankmsu]

I have an Ovation MM68 and was thinking about selling it, then I saw one tonight on American Idol being played on Maggie Mae. Now I might have to keep it, even though I was going to use the funds to pay for a Breedlove I just bought. That is the danger of buying before you sell. Oh well.

[Jim Garber]

It looked like John McEuen playing mandolin unless Scott Gates has a white beard.

[Jim Kirkland]

It looked like John McEuen playing mandolin unless Scott Gates has a white beard.

I think John McEuen.

[Dan Adams]

I believe that was John McEuen. He and Steve have been friends for years due to those Colorado ties. I also noticed tha Martin is about to undertake his Opry debut, I wonder if that was the band he will take the stage with at the Opry. Anybody know what mando John was playing? That thing was almost as worn as Monroe's Loar. Dan

[journeybear]

I never watch this, though now I almost wish I had. Tape and scan, that's the way ... Wonder if we can expect something similar in his appearance tonight on PBS' Tavis Smiley's show, or on Ellen Degeneres' show next Monday? More likely the latter, though sometimes there are performances on Tavis' show.

[Mattg]

Steve Martin just released a bluegrassish album called The Crow: New Songs for the Five String Banjo on Rounder. It's OK. Real heavy on the 5 string . Got some good mandolin.

I'm thinking the Idol thing was part of the promotion scheme. Sure we will see him on Letterman soon.

[journeybear]

Actually, he's already been on Letterman, back on Groundhog Day. Also SNL 1/31 (as host) and Regis and Kelly 2/3. I think "The Crow" came out in the winter, and this seems to be a second round of appearances, just a couple of them. BTW, it was a solo appearance on Tavis Smiley, mostly talking but there was a bit of demonstration showing the difference between fingerpicking and frailing. They showed some footage from an earlier concert in LA at the end - no John McEuen, some other mandolinist I didn't recognize.

[PaulO]

Ok let's stay open-minded, ok let's stay open-minded, ok let's stay open-minded

AMERICAN IDOL being discussed on Mandolin Cafe!!!!!!!??????!!!!

Ok let's stay open-minded, ok let's stay open-minded, ok let's stay open-minded

Now I feel better...

Paul

[Mike Bunting]

I have an Ovation MM68 and was thinking about selling it, then I saw one tonight on American Idol being played on Maggie Mae. Now I might have to keep it, even though I was going to use the funds to pay for a Breedlove I just bought. That is the danger of buying before you sell. Oh well.
Why would that be a reason for keeping it?

[NickAlberty]

I don't know about you, but I'd bet that they were just acting out their playing to that song last night on American Idol. They didn't seem to fall in line with the music.

I think they faked it! Kind of like "lip-sync" on their instruments.

What do you think? It didn't look real at all. Great song though and nice look.

Plus they had no mics or pickups in sight. Funny how we "heard" them playing without that.

[chip]

I thought the Rod Stewart and Steve Martin appearances were pretty lame...Could barely hear the mandolin with Steve and Rod just didn't sound very good IMO...Steve Martin didn't appear all that thrilled to be there either. And what's up with Lambert not winning??? No matter what you think about the guys looks,lifestyle, etc. he was by far the best vocalist. between the two finalists. I picked Danny G. as the best and was surprised to see he got booted. Saw the Greencards the other night and spoke with Kym for a while. Different thread for this at some point.

[Chief]

That was John McCuen. He usually plays a vintage, well used Gibson. I didn't get a good look last night. Actually, I never watch that show, but was flipping channels during a commercial. and had to watch that thang!

[chip]

It looked like a F4 to me but I couldn't get a clear look at it..nor hear it...

[sgarrity]

That was John McEuen on the mandolin. The appearance is even listed on his tour calendar on his website. He was playing some kind of beat up, well played F5. I think he's played that one for years. Not sure if it's a true vintage Gibby or a copy.

[GRW3]

Anybody notice Cyndi Lauper playing mountain dulcimer while doing a mostly acoustic version of Time After Time?

I think the reason that Steve Martin is out promoting his album again is that it is going through a general release now. I believe it was an Amazon exclusive to begin with. I think the volume issue is that the performance was balanced to totally emphasize the singers in what might be their last national appearances.

It's entirely cool that they recognized the power of the mandolin solo for Maggie May. Of course Rod Stewart singing about an affair with someone older is just creepy now...

I was satisfied by the result. I voted for Chris. I thought he looked like he was in his element when he did the duet with Keith Urban. Could be he follows Carrie into popular country.

I did prefer Danny of the final three but any of them would have been fine. I'm sure Adam has a big future ahead of him but there was a certain 'perfection' to his vocals that made him a little less appealing to me. It's what makes it a horse race.

The power of American Idol is real. While not every winner has become a major star some have and it seems most are doing pretty good. Also a lot of the other finalists have found careers.

[Danny Clark]

John use to be seen with a Givens F-5

[mcH]

That was John McEuen on the mandolin. .....

Anyone recognize who was playing fiddle?

[mcH]

...And what's up with Lambert not winning??? No matter what you think about the guys looks,lifestyle, etc. he was by far the best vocalist. between the two finalists.

I definitely would agree. Talent to talent, he had it!

[mando.player]

All things being equal, I think the voting result turned out best for both of them. While i think Adam was the better singer/performer, if he had won he would have had to put out a cheesy first CD dictated by the Idol execs. Now he can put out anything he wants.

I think Chris on the other hand had less of a chance at success if he had lost. Now he has a better shot.

[Wesley]

Charles is right. The way it turned out is better for both of them. Although Adam had the "better" voice { fewer missed notes, ect } it got a little screechy for me sometimes. I've never cared for any rock singer who tried to work with the very top of their range.

Oh - and Chris scored points with me when he changed from using a Taylor guitar to the Gibson Hummingbird. Not that it matters.

[Stephen Lind]

Ok let's stay open-minded, ok let's stay open-minded, ok let's stay open-minded

AMERICAN IDOL being discussed on Mandolin Cafe!!!!!!!??????!!!!

Ok let's stay open-minded, ok let's stay open-minded, ok let's stay open-minded

Now I feel better...

Paul

i feel your pain:disbelief:
and am also trying to keep an open mind

Danny called it
John was playing his Givens

[Mattg]

I think they faked it! Kind of like "lip-sync" on their instruments

Wow! Steve Martin is the Milli Vanilli of the Banjo?

[MikeEdgerton]

Wow! Steve Martin is the Milli Vanilli of the Banjo?

Actually Steve Martin is a decent picker.

Steve, Bela and Tony (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jn3KCZEqxc)

Steve and Earl (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrlqQ1_vZVE)

[Santiago]

John played with Steve Martin, but it was someone else playing the Ovation on Maggie Mae.

[Martin]

I believe that was Brian Nutter from Keith Urban's band playing the ovation on Maggie May

[NickAlberty]

I know those guys can play for real. I've heard all of them. It was funny though that the chord changes and their motions didn't always go together. Also, somtimes they'd hit a high note on their instrument, but be in a lower note position.

Just my thoughts.......I'm not putting them down. I enjoyed the song and was glad to see bluegrass/acoustic music on the show, it's just something I noticed.

[journeybear]

Wow! Steve Martin is the Milli Vanilli of the Banjo?

Steve can actually play pretty darn well. He can hold his own with Fleck and Trischka - they wouldn't play with him just for promotional purposes.

I didn't watch AI, but what people are saying it sounds like their performance was taped earlier in the day so the show would have a reliable audio track to broadcast - heaven forbid there be a glitch in a live performance - and then they had to "play along" with that recording for the show. This happens more often than you might think, or like to think, and personally I think they should just broadcast live performances, warts and all. It would eliminate this kind of doubt that perceptive viewers have.

[jefflester]

... Wonder if we can expect something similar in his appearance tonight on PBS' Tavis Smiley's show, or on Ellen Degeneres' show next Monday? More likely the latter, though sometimes there are performances on Tavis' show.
Look in your own thread about heads up for upcoming mandolin on TV possibilities. Scott Gates says he is playing with Steve on Ellen's show on Monday.

[man dough nollij]

Wow! Steve Martin is the Milli Vanilli of the Banjo?


Earl Vanilli.

[Ransome]

I think the give-away might have been that there were no instrument mics or cables hanging out of them either. I also noticed that the timing was off. Def a backing track

[journeybear]

Look in your own thread about heads up for upcoming mandolin on TV possibilities. Scott Gates says he is playing with Steve on Ellen's show on Monday.

From the Dept. Of Redundancy Dept.: I know - I saw that - didn't see any reason to be redundant - I know - I saw that - didn't see any reason to be redundant - I know - I saw that - didn't see < BEEP!!! > :))

Well, people were conversing here, seemed like a good place to (conversationally) mention the aforementioned, esp. since you already mentioned it over at the other thread (http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/showthread.php?t=50252)... :)

[reverhar]

From the Steep Canyon Rangers website:

Hey folks! A new show with Steve Martin has been announced in Los Angeles at Club Nokia. Tickets are available NOW through Ticketmaster via the Club Nokia website. The show will also feature an interview by writer Dave Barry and an appearance by John McEuen.

The show in L.A. will mark the first of 4 shows in May featuring Steve Martin performing with Steep Canyon Rangers. The 6 musicians will present songs from Martin’s new CD ”The Crow” as well as material from the Rangers’ upcoming CD (to be released in the Fall). The following 3 shows will take place at the Rubin Museum of Art in New York City, for which tickets are sold out

[mcH]

>>While i think Adam was the better singer/performer, if he had won he would have had to put out a cheesy first CD...I think Chris on the other hand had less of a chance at success if he had lost.<<

Somewhere I read a prediction that Kris would win it, but Lambert would have a career from it.

[Mark Robertson-Tessi]

Scott Gates says he is playing with Steve on Ellen's show on Monday.

Ooops, maybe that's what I was thinking of when I said he was supposed to be on AI!

Cheers
Mark

[chip]

I received an email from John McEuen today and he said it was his 1975 Givens F5 that he played last night on American Idol...:)

[fishdawg40]

I really have trouble enjoying any Idol vocalists. And it hurt to have the cool tune Steve Martin and gang were doing being mauled by those two. Too much flash and polish. Yes I know it's American Idol but.............

My wife got caught up in the Lambert craze, someone please put a dagger in my heart.....

Sorry for the negativity, I mean this in the lightest way.

[Randi Gormley]

I've never watched idol, so I can't comment on that, but we own an old LP (yes, THAT old) that's one side Steve Martin being a comic and the other him picking his banjo. I think the title was the Two Sides of Steve Martin or something, and I've watched him perform on his five-string off and on over the past few decades on tv. fwiw

[journeybear]

I'm not 100% sure, but I think Steve was playing banjo before he got into comedy.

OK, here we go, from wikipedia: His first job was at Disneyland, selling guidebooks on weekends and fulltime during the summer school break. That lasted for three years (1955–1958). During his free time he haunted the Disneyland magic shop, Merlin's Magic Shop, where tricks were demonstrated to the potential customers. By 1960 he had mastered several of the tricks and illusions, and took a job there in August 1960,There he perfected his talents for magic, juggling, playing the banjo and creating balloon animals frequently performing for tips.

By the way, he was born in 1945 - so he started working at ten! Playing banjo by no later than 15, and then got into comedy after high school.

At any rate, he's been playing going on fifty years, and he's no slouch. The way he showed Tavis Smiley the difference between fingerpicking and frailing, and the ease with which he changed between the two styles, was very impressive, and in a subtle, understated way, showed his mastery of the instrument.

And lastly, from the wiki: Martin released his first all-music album, The Crow: New Songs for the 5-String Banjo exclusively to Amazon.com on January 27, 2009, with a wider release scheduled for May 19, 2009.

[MikeEdgerton]

I'm not sure about that, I know that when he was writing for Glen Campbell back in the Smother's Brothers days he wasn't all that good. I saw a video one time that had John Hartford and a bunch of other banjo players on it and Steve Martin was really playing real basic stuff.

[journeybear]

I have a feeling he mixed comedy into the act because he was better at that than banjo - got a better reaction with the comedy, even the balloon animals. The banjo became more of a prop. But it's not like he couldn't play. He surely saw the writing on the wall, though, and knew it was a much tougher road to success as a banjoist than as a comedian playing banjo with a fake arrow through his head! :))

Still, if he's been at it for going on fifty years, he's bound to have learned a little something. :)

Then again, this is his first album entirely of music. He wrote or co-wrote all the songs, and he's got some good help on it - Dolly Parton, Vince Gill, Earl Scruggs, Bela Fleck, Tim O'Brien and Mary Black. There's a rather gushy piece on it by David Amram at amazon.com. (http://www.amazon.com/Crow-New-Songs-Five-String-Banjo/dp/B0026IZR3E/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1242961756&sr=1-3) There's also a long interview with John McEuen. (http://www.amazon.com/gp/mpd/permalink/m23LXVRFES8C85:m226LTL7Z21QRN)

[Stringnut17]

I only watched AI for the Steve Martin spot. I saw John McEuen a couple of years ago in a small venue and it turns out that he and Steve Martin went to high school together and Steve wanted to buy a banjo like John's so they went and found one that was a year older or newer I think. Anyway McEuen's was a 1929 Gibson I think and John taught him is first songs. Anyway, after the show, John let me take some pictures of his instruments where he left them on the stage for a while. Here is a picture of his Givens that I took that night. I believe it is the same mando he was playing on AI. It is quite worn with broken scroll and all. - Dan -

[Womandolin]

I saw the mandolin!! I yelled about it and my roommates just did their usual eye rolls.

[f5loar]

In that email from John McEuen did he say he was actually playing the mandolin or just holding it and looking like he was playing it? I too went back and looked at it several times in HD on a '72 inch TV and I'm pretty sure they were playing to a tape however they appeared to be trying to play along. You can hear high banjo notes when Martin was low on the neck. Nobody was baring down on their instruments as they were too much into swaying back and forth with the song. No mics except the singers and noticed they didn't have ear monitors so it had to have been a pretty loud monitor there on them.
Still a nicer exposure to new people of bluegrass music verses Deliverence,Bonnie&Clyde or Brother where art thou.

[Stephen Lind]

so let me get this straight...

some of you are
a bit chagrined

that real professional musicians
are not actually performing in real time
on a tv show about people
who aren't real professional musicians
who do perform in real time on said tv show?

gosh
it's getting really, really weird out there

[Ted Eschliman]

I believe that was Brian Nutter from Keith Urban's band playing the ovation on Maggie May

Story on Brian Nutter (http://www.wtap.com/news/headlines/45797392.html). "Nutter says he was asked to play with Rod Stewart the day before the concert because Stewart wasn't happy with how the concert master violinist was playing the mandolin without a pic."

[onassis]

It's sort of creeping me out seeing AI discussed so seriously on MC. I think I need another cup of coffee!

[chip]

In that email from John McEuen did he say he was actually playing the mandolin or just holding it and looking like he was playing it? I too went back and looked at it several times in HD on a '72 inch TV and I'm pretty sure they were playing to a tape however they appeared to be trying to play along. You can hear high banjo notes when Martin was low on the neck. Nobody was baring down on their instruments as they were too much into swaying back and forth with the song. No mics except the singers and noticed they didn't have ear monitors so it had to have been a pretty loud monitor there on them.
Still a nicer exposure to new people of bluegrass music verses Deliverence,Bonnie&Clyde or Brother where art thou.

No, I just asked him what mandolin he was playing Wed. night.:mandosmiley:

[Perry]

that real professional musicians
are not actually performing in real time
on a tv show about people
who aren't real professional musicians
who do perform in real time on said tv show?


I don't get it.....what's so bad about people singing to a live band on national TV? A TV show about music that the whole family can watch? It may not be everyone's cup of tea music-wise but hey it's music; the stage band is pretty tight IMHO and it sure beats some of the other stuff on TV.

[actaylor]

I don't get it.....what's so bad about people singing to a live band on national TV? A TV show about music that the whole family can watch? It may not be everyone's cup of tea music-wise but hey it's music; the stage band is pretty tight IMHO and it sure beats some of the other stuff on TV.

I agree. Once they get to the final 12 contestants, it's fun to watch. Better than most of the stuff on TV.

[Jim MacDaniel]

American Idol is a guilty pleasure of mine when I am in couch potato mode (would that make me an American Idle? ;) ). I with agree 14strings that the stage band is pretty good, and on occassion there is a contestant on that show who has some serious vocal chops and who is also engaging or entertaining -- but I especially enjoy the audition episodes at the beginning of each season, for both the very good and very bad auditions.

However, what I find is most anoying about the show are when A) all of the contestants sing together, B) they play those stupid Ford commercials, C) the votes seems more often to be based upon how cute someone is rather than talent (I guess that's what you get when you give teenage girls text phones ;) ) and D) when they have musical guests on the show. In the case of this episode, though they had mandolin content, I was no more engaged by either the Steve Martin or Rod Stewart performances, than I am by most other guest performers on the show.

Now that Idol is over, our household is actually enjoying its dancing counterpart much more so. IMHO, So You Think You Can Dance is far more entertaining, since most of its contestants are serious dancers, whether they be formally trained, or experienced performers of the stage or street.

[journeybear]

I avoid it like the plague, mostly because I can't stand the kind of singing I hear on these and similar shows. I call it the "Star Search school of singing," which is more about vocal gymnastics than, I dunno, singing from the heart, maybe? Now I KNOW it's a singing competition, and I KNOW the contestants have to impress the judges (and in this case, the audience), but in the meantime, these vocalizations really grate on me. I think this vocal approach has seeped into the general population as well, for now just about every time you hear someone sing the national anthem before a game, they feel they have to embellish and melismize to such a degree it detracts from the performance. That's just one example; this stuff has been showing up all over. Also, so many pop singers, from Mariah Carey to Beyoncé and beyond, sing like this. Those two get away with it because they are extraordianarily talented and that is just one weapon in their vocal arsenals; lesser talented singers fail in the attempt because they don't have something to back it up. Having great vocal chops is one thing; overusing them to show that you've got them is another. Ella Fitzgerald could sing circles around most anyone else, but usually chose not to, because she was using her voice to serve the song, not the other way around. :cool:

All right, I'm climbing down off my soapbox - for now - having given my 2¢ worth. ;)

The thing that puzzles me about AI winners is how few go on to have real careers, making music that has any real value (OK, according to my tastes). I'm not too surprised with how well Carrie Underwood has done, just the level she's reached - millions and millions of sales, CMA and ACM awards - and really quickly. I think she deserves it all, though; she's actually really good. The big surprise for me, though, is Kelly Clarkson. I didn't really care one way or another, until "Since U Been Gone" just blew me away. It's entirely possible anyone could have had a hit with that song, but she did such a good job with it, really dug into it, she made it really resonate, beyond itself. That's not easy to do.

Jeepers, what does any of this have to do with mandolins? Maybe there's one on some of Carrie's songs ... :whistling:

[chip]

We also enjoy AI. We find it a show that a family can be together and enjoy without the use of off color words, violence, etc. that are so prevalent on cable and other shows. The show reminds me some of the L.Welk variety show appeal of the 50's.
Whoever indicated that the contestants weren't "real musicians" is totally off base in my opinion. It's a singing contest and a good one. Even though some of the show seems lame to some it's producers, etc. want it to have a broad scope so as to appeal to all in some regard. Maybe down the road they will embrace some bluegrass artists songs and incorporate this genre into the show.~o)

[CES]

While I don't disagree that Adam is amazingly talented, and I think I preferred Danny's voice to the others, I told my wife about 6 weeks ago that if I were going to pay to see any of them it would be Kris...I like his voice, but the fact that he can actually play multiple instruments is cool and makes him more versatile than the other 2 finalists.

At any rate, I was excited to see the MM-68 close ups and thought it sounded good...I'm partial to those little kayak paddles for some reason, though I have no reason to own one at this point..

I, too, was disappointed in the Steve Martin spot, b/c it appeared recorded but more so because the 2 folks singing oversang in my opinion. BUT, I can't sing a lick anyway, so don't mean to really be casting stones. They did better than I could, but that's not necessarily saying much. I just thought more instrument and a little vocal understatement may have been more appropriate for the song, though not necessarily the venue.

[jefflester]

Still, if he's been at it for going on fifty years, he's bound to have learned a little something. :)
Well, using the 10,000 hour rule... that's only about 4 hours a week of practice. :grin:

[Manzolin]

Hey there everybody,

Scott Gates's Dad here. Scott has taped the Ellen show which will air on Monday Memorial Day May 25th, 2009. You will really hear the instruments this time for sure! As I understand it he has a nice break on the tune they are playing called Pitkin County Turnaround which is a straight bluegrass instrumental. :mandosmiley:
The Idol show was so hard to hear those great players and it was sad.
Nathan McEuen was playing guitar on Idol (son of John) and Scott's current bandmate. The fiddler was Craig Eastman. Matt Carsonis on Dobro, John Sr on Mandolin.

the Ellen show will Be Steve on banjo, John Sr on guitar, MAtt on Dobro, Craig Eastman on fiddle and Chris Caswell on Accordian. The setting and treatment was all about the sound. Should be a blast to watch, so Monday afternoon on Memorial day, set your TIVO's and DVR's...:popcorn:

[Manzolin]

pics from the backstage, rough but cool... These are from the Ellen Show, First is preshow sound check, second is Steve chilling back stage

[journeybear]

Well, using the 10,000 hour rule... that's only about 4 hours a week of practice. :grin:

Ha! :))

To hear him tell it (the Tavis Smiley interview was great, really informative; keep an eye out for repeats), he started with it as a teenager, learned some basic music stuff from John McEuen but mostly taught himself with a book and by slowing down records and learning songs note by note. He learned enough soon enough that he was playing it at his job at Disneyland. He's kept at it over the years, and one thing that helped was that he's picked up a few instruments over the years, so he has/had one in every room - easy access is indeed a help. He's also humble, and said he didn't feel he was ready to play for paying customers until recently, and then only until after he played a benefit concert for the LA Public Library, backed by the Steep Canyon Rangers (that's the footage at the end of the TS interview).

What was really clear in the interview was how much he loves the instrument, and respects its heritage, and has really applied himself to learning it. I have never seen him so serious as he was for this entire 25 minutes; it obviously means a lot to him. One funny story: He played on an Earl Scruggs record a few years back, along with some other guest artists, taking a run on FMB. The album won a Grammy, so everyone who participated got a Grammy, including him. So now he gets to tweak his more accomplished friends with this Grammy for "Best Country Instrumentalist!" :mandosmiley:

[Stephen Lind]

I don't get it.....what's so bad about people singing to a live band on national TV? A TV show about music that the whole family can watch? It may not be everyone's cup of tea music-wise but hey it's music; the stage band is pretty tight IMHO and it sure beats some of the other stuff on TV.

i didn't say it was bad

as far as the family watching a tv show together
i suppose that's good thing
i guess it took the place of sitting around the hearth
perhaps a bit less interactive;)

wouldn't know
i don't have a tv
and don't miss it a bit

[signtalkmg]

Someone told me earlier it was Scott Gates who was supposed to be playing.

Cheers
MRT
That was John McEuen of the Nitty Gritty Dirt Band playing mandolin on Pretty Flowers on the Idol finale. Scotty's on the Ellen Show on Memorial Day Monday 5/25, also with John McEuen. Gotta love them McEuens!!

[Jim MacDaniel]

i didn't say it was bad

as far as the family watching a tv show together
i suppose that's good thing
i guess it took the place of sitting around the hearth
perhaps a bit less interactive;)

wouldn't know
i don't have a tv
and don't miss it a bit


Stephen -- you probably missed this on the TV news, but computers and the internet have replaced television as the biggest time-waster in the western world (with texting rapidly closing ground), so watching TV together is nearly as quaint as sitting around the hearth, or huddling in front of the family radio. ;)