What defines wood quality?

[Andrew Reckhart]

What are the determining factors in grading wood. #I see #Flamed/Quilted/Birdseye maple sold in AA grade, AAA grade, and Master grade distinctions. #What seperates one from the other? #Are there exact parameters, or is it 'subjective' opinion of the broker? #Try to give me some photographic examples to show the differences. #I want to learn.

[Chris Baird]

In my experience each supplier has their own subjective system and is not transferable to other suppliers. Ebay is a place where you will see all kinds of As for all qualities of wood. It is a purely asthetic quantification and has no bearing on suitablity tone wise.

[Mark Seale]

That's a good question, because you can't really know all of the defects or potential defects in the wood until you start carving. Is the grading just based on any visible defects and the amount of figure?

[Spruce]

I dunno...

How would you grade the piece of maple in the back of this mandolin in the photo?

It wasn't big enough to cover the left side of the mandolin, so it's AA, right?

But the flame is pretty nice, so it might be AAAA?

But a master built a mando out of it (kudos to Mr. Monteleone), so it's (man, I hate this term) Master Grade, right?

I don't do a lot of grading around here....
It's either good, or I cut the price in half...
Works for me...

[thistle3585]

So, the width of a board enters into the grading factor? I never would have thought that.

[Andrew Reckhart]

I asked because I'm considering a venture into my first build that's not from a kit. I just want to know as much as possible before I start purchasing materials. A couple of the supply companies offer different grades of maple, rosewood, koa etc. etc. and I would like to know if the better grades are worth it. Cost/Value type thing.

[Chris Baird]

If I were you I'd buy from a supplier like Bruce Harvie or some other reputable dealer who knows musical instrument needs. Many hardwood supplier will send you unseasoned wood that will be unreliable in species and figure.

[Spruce]

See that staining in the back of the Montleone....?

That would discount it 50% around here (even if it were full-size)....

If I were buying wood for building sunburst F5 copies, I would buy heavily discounted wood that has a bit of color in it, but that is otherwise sound and well-milled wood....
Why pay for something (clear, unblemished wood) that you are going to hide anyway?

"So, the width of a board enters into the grading factor? #I never would have thought that. "

Sure....
That set of wood in the back of the Monteleone is basically unsellable due to the lack of width in the left lower bout...
15 bucks, maximum...

[Michael Lewis]

Hey Bruce, send me some of that wood! Outstanding shimmering figure. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Spruce]

What kind of maple do you think that is, Michael?

I'm guessing maybe Silver Maple cut on the quarter?

It's a dead-ringer for some of the (supposedly) Chinese maple I've seen on some of the new Eastman blonde F5s I've seen recently...

It's a lovely look...

[Rob Grant]

"Staining"

Jeeze Bruce, around here we call that "character" and sell it for twice the price!<g>

Attached is a photo of an unmatched back of Scented "Maple"
("NOT") or Flindersia laevicarpa with some of that expensive "character."

Rob, FarOutNorthQueensland,Oz.

[Michael Lewis]

That Grand Artist looks to me like it is made of some eastern european wood. It's hard enough to tell what kind of wood when you have it in your hands, but from a pic on the net I'm just guessing. It looks similar to some euro stuff that I'm finishing up. Hopefully ready for IBMA. Also have some big leaf that is similar in growth ring pattern but not the figure.

Rob, you folks down under have quite an array of interesting woods. Have you used many of them? What do you think about them?

[Rob Grant]

"Rob, you folks down under have quite an array of interesting woods. Have you used many of them? What do you think about them?"

My favorite local timbers are Flindersia brayleyana and F. laevicarpa. Both are rainforest timbers. F. brayleyana is very stable and reasonably light (great neck material). F laevicarpa is a good timber for bending and makes excellent sides. Both are called "maples," but are not in any way related to the true maples of the northern hemisphere (Acer). A great back timber is our local Queensland "Walnut" which is actually closely related to the avocado.

All of these timbers have become difficult to obtain in the last twenty years because much of the habitat they are found in is in the World Heritage listed Wet Tropics of North Queensland. Luckily, mandolins are small and my timber needs are easily supplied by a small private mill and old timber getters who stashed a few planks away for retirement. Occasionally I salvage material from house wreckers and stumps.

[Rob Grant]

Bit amazed at the back used for the Monteleone in Spruce's photo. It's a fantastic looking timber. I'm sure the instrument sounds great and is beautifully crafted, but why use a back set that is not wide enough? Seems a bit strange for a pro builder like Monteleone.

[Michael Lewis]

Rob, I would guess that Mr. Monteleone used that piece because it looked so good. I would have. Hey, it already has a joint in the center of the back, why not one more little joint to make up the neccssary width? You as a luthier will notice something like that but most folks wouldn't notice unless it was pointed out to them.

[Rob Grant]

I hate to be "picky," but even the missus' (who is a player, not a builder) reckons the added splice is a bit slack for a top-of-the-line instrument. One spends almost a hundred hours creating a beautiful piece of craftmanship such as the mando shown. Why detract from it's beauty and perfection by using an undersized book matched back? In reality, the wood, compared to the hours of labour, is often the cheapest part of the project. The join at the center serves to mirror the two halves. The added bit actually takes away from the beauty of that symmetry.

[Spruce]

I hate to be "picky," but even the missus' (who is a player, not a builder) reckons the added splice is a bit slack for a top-of-the-line instrument. The added bit actually takes away from the beauty of that symmetry.
The 3-piece back in that GA just reeks of confidence to me...

I robbed that photo off the Cafe classifieds, where I'm sure the instrument sold on the day it was posted...

I emailed John, and he doesn't know the species, but thought it was North American maple...

Nice looking wood and mandolin, IMO...