Financing trip to Europe by bringing instrument(s) to sell . . .

[scgc.om]

It seems quite apparent to me (by looking at Classifieds and Store Websites from European sellers) that good quality acoustic instruments are much more expensive in Europe than in North America.

I haven't been to Europe in 30 years (used to get 4 DMarks to $! -- but now the exchange is MUCH worse -- just too expensive!) but I'd like to visit again someday.

And so I'm "putting 1 + 1 together" and wondering if it doesn't equal 3 . . . !

Has anyone here brought an instrument to Europe, played it while there, and then sold it to finance (some of) the cost of the trip?

Suggestions? Helpful hints??

[Oggy]

I live in Europe and I agree that quality American-made instruments are a lot more expensive over here, both in stores and if we order from the States.

First of all, the actual prize depends on the current exchange rates (which obviously can go up and down quite a bit). Secondly, the shipping can be quite expensive... sometimes several hundreds of dollars. Thirdly, custom fees and taxes can add up to about 30% of the value of the instrument (at least here in Sweden).

[Eddie Sheehy]

You need to have a buyer (and preferrably the payment) BEFORE getting the instrument. It will be hard to just bring the instrument and sell it - how will you find a buyer there in the short timeframe you'll be staying? Dealers won't buy from you - at least not at a reasonable price - they'll figure you'll sell it just so's not to take it back with you. It will definitely have to be a "known' brand unless a buyer specifically requests it. The buyer will still have to "trial" the instrument once you get it there and may then try to bargain you down on "perceived" shortcomings - again counting on you not wanting to take the instrument back with you and end up keeping it... I know lots of musicians in Europe and I wouldn't even offer to do this unless it was someone really close to me. BTW, whatever chance you have of bringing in a mandolin - and it's good - guitars are a "watched" item, as are golf-clubs.

[Jill McAuley]

I agree with Eddie - unless you have a buyer lined up prior to your departure, there are just too many variables that could conspire against you: the recession, desirability of the instrument you have in the locale you're visiting, bad financial timing - folks wanting it but just not having the cash at that particular time etc etc..

Cheers,
Jill

[Spencer]

Jimmy Gaudreau played here in Copenhagen a couple years back, and he had a Rigel he played that he said was up for sale. It didn't get sold here, don't know if it did anywhere else.

Spencer

[barney 59]

I tried that in Australia and it was a bust---it was hard to make connections and music stores didn't want to pay --just like here.

[Ivan Kelsall]

I've known several top players from the US bring instruments over & sell them.Tony Trishka had a Gibson "Mastertone" Banjo for sale at one festival over here a few years back, & a friend of mine has one of Doyle Lawson's 'Paganioni' Mandolins that he bought from Doyle when he was touring over here,so it does happen. I think mainly that it's a question of if you can't find a market for your instrument at home,then maybe someone in another country where instruments are more scare (good ones that is),could go for it,
Ivan

[Chris Keth]

You also might check the laws in the countries you want to visit. In most places, what you're talking about may make you an importer and subject to various taxes and regulations.

[allenhopkins]

My Sobell once belonged to a well-known English expatriate finger-style guitarist, living in Ithaca at the time, who traded it in on a Gibson mandolin to take back to England and sell at a substantial profit. I assume he already had contacts over there that made it easier for him to sell it. I remember French exchange students buying instruments over here because the tax on instrument sales in France was 30%, as I remember. Don't know what kind of duty they were liable for in bringing the instruments back to France. As stated above, just taking an instrument over there "blind" and hoping to find a buyer may or may not work. In addition, there may be duties payable on instruments bought into a country to sell, rather than for the traveler's personal use. You can always say you're going to play it and not sell it, but if you sell it, and the customs people find out, you may "have some 'splainin' to do" and some bills to pay.

[swampstomper]

In the Netherlands (probably typical of most of EU) any import is subject to duty, depending on its nature, and the seller is also responsible to pay the tax authorities the VAT, for which you have to be a registered seller. Obviously coming over you would not be the latter. So the instrument would get sold illegally and the paperwork, should it come to light e.g. in an estate sale or insurance settlement, would not be in order. A local guitar store in Enschede sells Martins at a huge premium compared to the US, but they explained to me they pay 19% VAT, and 40% of the wholesale (dealer) value as import duty. Yes, there is still protectionism over here (I am shocked, shocked...).

So when you come through the airport, you may well be asked by customs about your instrument. As a non-resident they would probably accept that you are travelling with it for pleasure, but they'd make you pay a deposit to make sure you take it out.

Having said all that, if you can manage to walk through the airport w/o getting caught -- hint, come to Amsterdam at the same time as the flights from Surinam or Curaçao, all the customs agents are working the drugs control on these -- and sell it to a willing buyer w/o paperwork, you can get away with it.

Finally, if you look at the classifieds here, you'll see instruments are not selling any faster here than in the US, maybe slower. Look at some dealer inventory (e.g. Boetzkes, New Acoustic Gallery) and you'll see the same thing. So don't expect to walk into a jam session and sell your instrument, even at a good price.

[billkilpatrick]

don't know for sure but i would imagine you won't find a market for your instrument here in italy. you'd probably do better with the finances by busking - (n.b.: if you have one, bring your cowboy outfit or something suitable for the grand ol' opry.)

[grassrootphilosopher]

If you intend to sell an instrument in Europe and you plan to finance (part of) the trip with the profit you have to do your homework very well.

Up front note what Mr. Rossiter (swampstomper) has said. But do not let that necessarily keep you from following your thought.

Do your math. How much is an instrument worth in the US and how much is it worth in Europe? It works both ways. You´ll have an instrument worth a certain sum in the US and bring it over to Europe. Claiming you´ll follow with the laws, you´ll have to ad about 3 % customs fees and (for Germany) 19 % VAT (taxes) on the instrument (and shipping and customs fees). Is it worth it? Some instruments yes, some no. Without these surcharges (so that makes it an illegal import, right) the taxes and customs fees are your gain that you can calculate with. Generally you´ll have to keep a keen eye on the market.

Keep an eye on additional laws that may concern instruments. A somewhat ambigous topic is cites. That is an international treaty that banns the import of endangered material (best known is a certain product [straight pic] that comes from a special sea turtle). If you have your average 60ies D-28 that you would like to sell, you´ll have a load of paperwork to do (according to the braz. rosewood back and sides), high additional costs (for import permits and such) or the risk (however calculable, though I know travelling musicians of reknown bother little about it), to get your instrument seized.

Do not go unprepaired. By that I mean that there is a market for instruments. Bands that travel Europe sell (part of) their instruments sometimes. If you check the cafe here, or the UMGF (unoficial Martin guitar forum - www.umgf.com) or the banjo hangout (www.banjohangout.org) you will find that people do look for nice instruments.
That is nice instruments. So what might be interesting is to find out what people are interested in, cut a deal with them and provide the goods. For example, you have a (VG to EXC, no bridge issues, non refinished) 50ies D-28, do not bother about the seizing issue and taxes and such, there are, I practically guarantee you that you will be able to cover the costs of the trip with the sale of this instrument alone. The same might go for a nice Gilchrist or Nugget (A or F style) though the market is much smaller for those and there are luthiers that give Steve and Mike the run for their money over here or in the thereabouts.

Now I think that such an operation could and would work if it would be carried out through the grapevine. That is, you´d have to be a dang honest fella that everybody in "the scene" knew or knows someone that knows you (you know, word by mouth), you´d have to have excellent knowledge about the instruments (do you know about replacement bridges or blacklighting to find out about overspray and such), and you´d have to have a network (maybe) of acquiring the right instruments for the right people (right now high scale mandos are slow in Europe while the said D-28 or most any 00, 000, OM up to 195- may move without a problem).

On the other hand, new instruments would be no-takers if you don´t have a clue about what´s hot. My speculation is that there is not really a "market" for new instruments according to the fact that the prospective buyers would not go for a (grey to "illegal") import.

But all of the above is just my opinion.