session etiquette...

[kickapooviking]

I am annoyed often at our local session, when the regulars do not listen to tune settings. That is, I may start a jig slowly, to warm up early in the evening, or if I'm in such a mood, but they take off with it, and by its second go round it is racing away! They play by rote, they don't listen, and do you think it is OK to say something to them at the end? (Actually I have, and most are in denial).

[allenhopkins]

The others aren't particularly considerate, but unfortunately, once you throw a tune out there, it's fair game for others who want to "play it their way." Some sessions are like ship convoys "in reverse"; a convoy proceeds at the speed of the slowest ship, session tunes seem to end up at the tempo of the fastest player.

You can speak to the others if you want, or you can say, as you start a tune, "I'd like to take this one slower, 'cause I'm just getting hold of it, or I have some ornaments I'd like to try, or some such." Playing jigs and reels slowly is something a lot of session players can't get used to. I assume when you say "slowly," you don't mean waltz time, but just a somewhat reduced tempo?

Impossible to legislate good taste, and nearly impossible to evoke consideration where none exists. If it's a friendly, supportive session, though, you should be able to get some cooperation.

[Bertram Henze]

For tunes that everbody knows, starting them is like dropping a match on a puddle of gasoline.

Having once been a slow, ornamentic player, and being a fast player now (what is ornamentation?), I know both sides of it. What I did was identify one or two cooperative players and learn tunes they know and the others don't - this way I could have a few short moderate sub-sessions the others would respectfully listen to and maybe ask the names of those tunes afterwards.

I still have some of those moderate tunesets today, but apart from that I am part of the gasoline (it is virtually impossible to resist the drag of speed from one strong player). How did I do that (and with an OM)? The trick is to play smarter, not harder. I don't play all the notes faster, Instead I play a smaller percentage of the notes, employing double stops instead; if you listen closely you'll find out that's what fiddlers do as well. There's no magic in speed, just a cunning way of being lazy. For a comparison of different techniques on the same tuneset, you might want to refer to this thread in the Song-a-Week Group (http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/group.php?do=discuss&group=&discussionid=246), where you can hear me playing the fast way, and Barbara playing the right way. :)

As for denial - perception of speed is off when you're fast (like in a car), so of course everybody will honestly say "that was not fast at all"...
Bertram

[grassrootphilosopher]

It mostly has to do with the participants proficiency wether they can stick with the way a tune is started or not. Good players are able novices are not. If you have a couple of good players on your side you may dominate the jam sessions and give the novices a nice learning experience. Other than that you may just have to go with the flow or leave the jam alone (done that more than one time).

[wormdiet]

I am annoyed often at our local session, when the regulars do not listen to tune settings. That is, I may start a jig slowly, to warm up early in the evening, or if I'm in such a mood, but they take off with it, and by its second go round it is racing away! They play by rote, they don't listen, and do you think it is OK to say something to them at the end? (Actually I have, and most are in denial).


This might be a weird suggestion, but start a tune that won't be known by the whole session (at your own tempo) and THEN go into the chestnut. That way, you've

1) Played a new tune, which is a good thing, and
2) established the tempo for your set. It's much harder to hijack a set after the tempo has been established.

[Frank Johnson]

I've not considered that, but know it's true with guitar pickers. As a beginner, I've played the few tunes I know at an impromptu session at a family gathering and, looking back on the experience, the people I was playing with were very kind and slowed their own playing to my speed. I was even told (afterwards) that I was on the right track because I was playing a bit slower and learning how the tune should be played as compared to trying to bluff my way through. If they had blistered their way through the tunes after I started them off I would have been forced to sit and watch because I couldn't have kept up, so I learned more by their consideration than I would have otherwise. Sounds like I happened to be with a special group!

[Bertram Henze]

This might be a weird suggestion, but start a tune that won't be known by the whole session (at your own tempo) and THEN go into the chestnut. That way, you've

1) Played a new tune, which is a good thing, and
2) established the tempo for your set. It's much harder to hijack a set after the tempo has been established.

I have done that also. In that situation, it is important to have one or two good accompanists who are quick finding chords to make it sound gregarious (what a session is supposed to be all about) and to thereby prove that your contribution fits in, or else everybody might just stare at you voodoo-style, patiently but urgently waiting for you to stop and making you feel it.
There is a fine line between a superstar bringing new music and a troglodyte picking on his own and ignoring everybody else. It takes courage.

Bertram

[steve V. johnson]

In our sessions it's not rare for someone to say that they'd like to play (or start) a tune but that they'd like to play thru it at their own tempo, usually slower than the veterans' or the 'usual' session speed, and it's common for that request to be honored. (There's a lot to be learned from playing a familiar tune or set slowly, I've found.) This sort of thing has happened in our sessions and, to their credit, one of our veterans will usually notice and ask, 'Did you want to play that thru more slowly? We really ran off with it... We can do it again slowly if you like.'

I wish all sessions were 'open' enough for folks to talk about what they'd like to do and for others to listen and value comments and participation.

So I guess, from your original post, that just starting a tune/set at your tempo isn't getting it done. I hope you can just ask straight out to play the tune thru at your tempo, and that the session can accept it.

If your session folks aren't open to that, perhaps you can ask some other willing players to meet
outside the regular sessionk time/place to play tunes in ways that the rest of the session won't.

stv

[kickapooviking]

Lots of nice thoughts and suggestions. Thanks alot!

[Hastyman]

I feel like the Trogdolyte with a hand full of thumbs waiting to mess up the tune at any given moment. As a neophyte, I practice constantly and can play at session tempos when I'm at home. However, when someone starts with me I start listening to what they're playing and I mess up.

Ironic since I was a jazz musician in a former life many many years ago. Maybe it's because we're all playing the same thing (basically) and I can't get used to that. It amplifies my doubts and mistakes.

You could always get the loudest instrument in the group. That seems to work in some circles.

[Bruce Evans]

I very often announce a tune with the addition, "at my tempo." Then I shake out my hands, blow on my finger tips and start playing at about half the common tempo. If someone trys to speed it up I call just loud enough to be heard, "at my tempo," with a smile on my face. Usually the coments afterward are, "Ya know, it sounds nice that way."

[steve V. johnson]

Hey Bruce, that's great! Well done there, that'd work for me!

Hastyman sez, "However, when someone starts with me I start listening to what they're playing and I mess up."

Me too. Sometimes it's a lot more fun to listen when there's some brilliant stuff going on. I have to be careful when there are only a few of us cuz if I just |stop| it can break the groove too much, folks snap a look over at me... 'where'd 'e go?!?'.

stv

[Gerry Cassidy]

I've recently discovered another type of etiquette, here in Virginia, that I had not experienced before. It's a good mix of player levels: beginner, mid, to old salts. New tunes are first played slow, or medium speed by all. If one of the salts wants to play it again at 'Seisiun Speed' they will request it, then all the salts stand up and play the tune at speed.

This format seems to be enjoyed by all, especially the folks that are there to listen.

I find the camaraderie quite refreshing!

[steve V. johnson]

Wow, they -stand up- to play at speed ?!?!? Wow, that's impressive!

Kids, buy the old folks a round when they've done all that!

stv

[Harlan_55]

Gerry is right, though he is talking about ba session that is by design and agreement meant to be a slow session to learn the tunes. Most of the sessioneers at that particular session are classically trained orchestra members who can read up to speed....... YIKES !!! However, they are kind enough for us less advanced players to slow it down a . Then, as Gerry says, the gloves come off..... lol. What is amazing is that the patrons who are there to eat, will applaud for both versions !!!

We are lucky here in Central Va to have two regular session/jams that cater to beginners and novices that want to learn both Irish and Old Time music. There is an active supporting cast of experienced musicians who attend and provide the backbone for those of us just learning. As I have watched and learned, I also watch the pride the experienced musicians have when us novices start getting it !!!!

I feel lucky to have lucked into such a community. I can only hope that I will be able to give as much as I have recieved. To me, that is what makes the music truly sing !!!

[Rick C.]

Learn to play accordion-- you can shout them down and keep them at your tempo. Done it many times. : )

[kristallyn]

ugh I used to go to sessions in a village nearby where a melodeon teacher lived, he used to take his students to the sessions for practise, so there I was, with my guitar, singing a sad folk balad..with ten melodeons squeeking their way through my song ....I wouldnt have mind 1 melodeon, maybe a fiddle and a mandolin..but TEN melodeons..
that is waaaay over the top:D