Cutting the Peghead to Shape

[Steve Etter]

Builders,

I am rapidly approaching the stage where I will be cutting the peghead to shape on my bandsaw. In order to do this, I know that I need to create a jig to support the neck and peghead such that the fretboard plane is horizontal. My problem is I can't, for the life of me, figure out how to build this accurately and such that it will hold the neck securely.

In his book, Mr. Siminoff shows shows a jig under the already-profiled neck and peghead, but there is only one picture and no additional detail.

At this stage, I already have the neck roughly profiled and the peghead veneer glued in place. Obviously, any jig that I make for this, I would like it to be one I can use on future projects without having to modify it or remake it for each one.

Does anyone have a jig for this that they would mind showing and discussing?

I have considered flipping the neck upside-down for this and transfering the pattern to the back of the peghead, but I am not sure that is a good idea.

Steve

[Dale Ludewig]

Steve,

I don't have it in front of me but I believe in the original Siminoff book he has a more detailed drawing of the jig. It's really pretty straightforward. Take a side profile drawing of the neck/ headstock and then draw a form such that the bottom of the form is parallel to the fingerboard part of the neck and tall enough that your headstock will clear the bandsaw table. Bore or cut a couple holes in it so that you can clamp the neck to it. Or you can be a complete nut and just hold the neck in place on the jig while you cut it. I wouldn't recommend the last option although I have done it. One slip and you have a big problem with either the neck, your hand, or both.

Here's where you may have a problem based on your description: partially profiled. From my experience the bottom of the neck has to be flat, not rounded. Side profile as viewed from the side has been cut, ears glued on, leveled, and then the overlay glued on. If this is your first mando, I wouldn't do the inlay before you cut the headstock on the jig. If you've already started to round and shape the neck you are going to have a challenge. It will want to roll and something (you) will get damaged. Think about trying to cut a flat surface on the side of a large tapered dowel while it's lying on a flat surface. Don't go there. I hope this helps. If I can do more, please call me. 815-758-1505.

[Hans]

Exactly as Dale said. I would add that it's much easier (in my opinion) to cut the peghead shape on the veneer, bind it, and then glue it on. Then you can follow that outline, cut it a little large and finish off on a drill press with spindle sanders using the same jig.

[sunburst]

I'll see if I can snap a picture or two. The jig I use is very simple, it is a wedge shaped piece of wood that fits under the peghead with two dowels in it that go into two of the tuner holes and hold the neck/neck blank in position. That's the way we did it at the "factory" where I worked many years ago and that's the way I've done it ever since.
It's not "automatic", it requires more user input than a larger jig that clamps the neck, but it's simple and quick.

[Steve Etter]

Dale,

Yes, you understand my description of partially profiled. I have curved it already and, as you pointed out, this makes holding it on the curved surface a difficult task. Were it flat, I most likely would have muddled through this step on my own.

Since Siminoff steps through his process (as best I can remember - the book is not in front of me right now) by profiling the neck before cutting the peghead shape and it appears that he shows it in his jig that way, I assumed this was "the way it is done".

So now I need to figure out how I can do this without risking neck and hand too much.

The only reason I doubt I will take you up on your phone call offer is that I really like to see stuff like this all written on the board. I doubt I am the only one who has, or will have, this issue and I hope whatever comes out will be useful to others. Thanks for the offer, though.

Steve

[Steve Etter]

Hans - John,

Both of your posts came in while I was hunting-pecking. Thanks.

I like the idea of the wedge under the peghead. Sounds simple enough and I look forward to seeing photos. Thanks.

Steve

[austin]

This is the fixture I use. It is the same piece that I use to secure the neck for cutting the dovetail but I turn the neck around to get the angle on the headstock I want. I can shim it if I want more or less angle.

(there is another part for this with indexing pins that holds the whole fixture at the right angles to cut the taper into the dovetail)

I also use an auxiliary table on the bandsaw to give me more room to work for this job.

Oh, I should note that like Hans, I also bind and inlay the headstock veneer before gluing to the headstock. Then cut the shape and clean it up with the oscillating spindle sander.

[Lefty Luthier]

Following a number of disasters and near disasters, I came to the conclusion that one should cut both the peghead outline and dovetail before doing any shaping of the neck. Hans suggestion to cut the top veneer to shape and bind it before gluing it on is good advice. I also do any inlay work on the veneer before putting it in place more out of ease of handling than any other. If you are using a back veneer though, put it on before cutting to shape.

[Rroyd]

Since you have partially shaped the neck, you could make a jig to hold the neck that is basically an upside-down trough with the neck clamped in it with the fingerboard against the underside
of the jig, which would allow you to correctly align the peghead angle. You could cut slots in the jig on each side of the neck, and use some leather to pad it, and use hose clamps to hold it in place. As one poster mentioned, you would need to have a larger work table, but that should be easy to achieve with a piece of plywood.

[Bill Snyder]

I just don't quite understand what is wrong with cutting the peghead upside down, but then I don't build f-style mandolins.

[John Arnold]

I would not recommend any kind of fixture that does not have support underneath the peghead. There is just too much chance of the saw jerking the neck down when you have a lapse of concentration. I have learned the hard way that band saws can be very unforgiving in this regard. Never, ever do an unsupported cut.
I recently replaced the neck on an F5 style mandolin, using a Stew Mac blank with the oversize square headstock. The back of the neck had already been roughly shaped, but it didn't matter, because I have always used a wedge under the peghead, attached with two screws through the tuner holes. I transferred the bound headplate from the original neck, gluing it on before profiling the peghead.

I just don't quite understand what is wrong with cutting the peghead upside down
Three reasons.
You still need a wedge to produce a supported cut that is perpendicular to the fingerboard face. IMHO, Brentrup's method of binding the faceplate before gluing it on is the the best way. That means you need to cut the peghead from the top, using the faceplate as a guide. Finally, if you do have chip-out, it is more preferable on the back of the peghead, versus the front.

[sunburst]

Here's my "jig". I don't have a neck that has the tuner holes drilled so I can't show how it works, but as you can see, you just slip the two little dowels into two of the tuner holes and saw/sand to shape.

[sunburst]

To add to what John (Arnold) said, even with a wedge under the peghead like the one I showed, the cut is unsupported and you're likely to have a chippy "exit wound", so don't cut too close and leave plenty of wood for clean-up with sanding.
I could make a new wedge each time, sacrificial, and large enough to support right under the saw blade so that I'd cut away part of the wedge. Then I could saw closer and sand less, but it wouldn't save any time or make the final product any better.

[austin]

That is a nice setup, John. I will have to give it a try.

I do want to point out that the broad base of the setup I use is quite stable and has cut out many headstocks and dovetails quite accurately with nary a slipup and I am able to cut right next to the binding with my hands well out of the way.

Besides, losing concentration is not an option at most points of construction. ~o)

[Dale Ludewig]

Hey John,

Nice picture! I do mine almost the same except that I include the neck. But then I have to have one for each a 12 fret and a 15 fret neck (or so I think). Nice idea to have the pegs in there to keep it perfect. And I agree with Hans re: precutting the overlay and doing the binding before you cut, if possible. NOT on your first one. The angle thing can become quite a little of nuance. I think it's easier if you bind with the stripe on the side than on the top. MHO.

Now then, if you can CNC the inlay, you can do the whole overlay and then cut it out. With some clearance. And you can also worry yourself a great deal. :)

[Dale Ludewig]

I forgot-

Austin- nice article about you in MandoMag this last issue. Very nice.

Dale

[Steve Etter]

So about this cutting the peghead shape on the veneer, binding it, and then gluing it on before cutting the peghead blank to shape - shouldn't that all be done at the same angle as the peghead blank thus requiring some kind of angled jig simply to cut the veneer? My mental image shows the lines of the veneer and the binding at different angles from the rest of the peghead if you do these as two separate steps. If this is correct, wouldn't gluing first give a more uniform assembly? Maybe I am seeing this through to fine a glass.

Steve

[Jerry Haynes]

Steve, you said that your neck is partially profiled, well I did the same thing a long time ago. Here's what you do.... build your jig as in the book, then with a drum sander disc in a drill shape your jig to match the profile of the neck as closely as possible. This will let the peghead down on the angled section of the jig. Clamp it down tightly and go slow. As others have mentioned, leave a little to remove later. Your slot should look like a U or semi V. You may never use it again, but at least you can save the neck. Hope this helps. Jerry

[austin]

Thanks Dale, I think I was a bit over-caffeinated that morning....

Steve, you are correct but it is not done the way you might think. After cutting out and binding the overlay, I sand the nut end to the correct angle so it meets the nut flush at a 90 degree angle where the angle of the headstock breaks from the plane of the fingerboard gluing surface.

The point end can be dealt with by using thicker binding than the rest of the peghead and trimming some of it away when you cut the peghead shape to create the correct angle at the end. This ends up being at about the same angle as the nut end was sanded to and then the binding has an even thickness around the entire peghead.

I am not sure I described that very well, but there ya go....

[Bill Snyder]

I just don't quite understand what is wrong with cutting the peghead upside down
Three reasons.
You still need a wedge to produce a supported cut that is perpendicular to the fingerboard face. IMHO, Brentrup's method of binding the faceplate before gluing it on is the the best way. That means you need to cut the peghead from the top, using the faceplate as a guide. Finally, if you do have chip-out, it is more preferable on the back of the peghead, versus the front.

I thought of the chipping problem, but so far it has not been one. I make my cut perpendicular to the peghead and cannot think of any problems with it being this way. If there are please enlighten me. Personally I think it looks better. Like I said I, have not built any f-style mandolins (or plan on it for that matter) just flat tops and a-styles.

[Bill Halsey]

I make up the inlaid veneer, cut it to its finished outline, then glue it to the oversize headstock. This gives me a shelf to install the binding. I then spring-clamp it to a sawing fixture and just follow the binding with the bandsaw. When one side is done, I just shift the clamps to the other side and complete the job. I leave the fixture in place for touching up the outline with a spindle sander.

41768

These headstock sawing fixtures are easily made from an accurately surfaced piece of 2x4 and I keep several on hand at different angles, depending upon which F-5 I'm replicating.

[sunburst]

FWIW, I do it sort of like Bill does. I cut the overlay to shape and glue it to the headstock, then cut around it, leaving plenty of room for binding, then spindle sand almost to shape, then glue the binding, then spindle sand the rest of the way. Done that way, taping the binding in the slot is about the same as binding the body.

Bill (Snyder), there's nothing wrong with squaring the edges of the peghead to the face of the peghead, that's the tradition in guitar making. For some reason, the tradition in mandolin making is the angled peghead edge. Even among Gibson instruments, banjos and mandolins have angled cuts and guitars have square cuts. Who knows who made the stylistic decisions that have resulted in the different traditions!

[Bill Halsey]

Even among Gibson instruments, banjos and mandolins have angled cuts and guitars have square cuts. Who knows who made the stylistic decisions that have resulted in the different traditions!

I believe OHG called this shot.

[Bill Snyder]

...Bill (Snyder), there's nothing wrong with squaring the edges of the peghead to the face of the peghead, that's the tradition in guitar making.

Maybe that is why it looks right to me. I am not an accomplished mandolinist or guitarist but I did play (sorta) guitar for 20+ years before I picked up a mandolin.