No sad mando

[Mandotorious]

Here's a thesis I've held for a long time. I welcome challenges, criticism, and objections. (Agreement is also fine!) I love this instrument dearly, and I never get tired of thinking about what makes its personality unique.

The mandolin is an inherently happy instrument. In and of itself, it is incapable of sounding sad.

Why? Two things come to mind. First, obviously enough, is the mandolin’s high register. Poets frequently use high vowels (e.g., words like quick, bite, fast) to create light, cheery effects. Lower vowels (e.g., lawn, bowl) are more sonorous and work better for slow, solemn subjects. But a mandolin has no way of pronouncing low vowels. It simply can’t moan.

Second, the mandolin lacks sustain. (As do most high vowel sounds, for that matter.) A violin has the same register as a mandolin, but it is capable of producing a more mournful sound partly, I think, because notes can be drawn out with a bow. A mandolin pretty much has to be picked, which means a sharp attack and relatively quick decay. A tremolo is not really sustained sound; it’s rapidly repeated sounds. It’s ironic that the only way to seriously slow a note down on the mandolin is to pick ridiculously quickly.

It’s a vivacious instrument that is just not built for sad sounds.

Of course there are sad songs featuring the mandolin, and it’s possible to make the instrument sound plaintive. (I’m thinking of some of Chris Thile’s slow, melodic solo work.) But in all of these cases, I think the sadness is in the music rather than in the instrument.

In fact, I think the overall cheeriness of the mandolin tends to work against the sadness of such songs. “Wayfaring Stranger,” for instance, features weary sounding verses and a contrastingly warm, strong chorus. But when I play it on the mandolin, even the verses sound somehow sunny. I love that. Even when the song is sad, a mandolin will always sing it with a smile.

Mandotorious

[Chris Baird]

Haven't you hear Grisman play. Try playing some old russian tunes like dark eyes and make sure you use a minor key and lots of blue notes. Its gets sad, mighty sad.

[John Flynn]

Curtis Buckhannon has a saying on his website:
"If you can feel sad playing this music, the Devil's got your soul."

[John Bertotti]

I think that musically in America this is true. The type of music we are used to hearing makes it so. Move on to Europe with the bowl back instruments and the more classical music and you may think otherwise. My Vega has an incredible sustain and some of the practice pieces I'm working on can be quite sad just not in a depressing way. I can feel sad without the depression and I think its also true of the mandolin. But I do agree that it lends itself to happier, more fun tunes. John

[John Rosett]

" as a rule, mandolins don't have much fun, 'cause somebody's always pickin' on them."
-jethro

[gdae85]

I love how the mandolin is able to be so sad and melancholic

[grandmainger]

Mmmm... Try playing Beethoven's Moonlight Sonata on your mando. You'll be crying by the end, and not because it's difficult...

I fundamentally agree with you though, mandos are happy, but I agree with others that the main reason for that is more likely to be the style of music.
Hating to have to admit it, but I consider banjo to be happier, albeit 'stupider'...

http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Sellars]

A large proportion of the italian repertoire are real tearjerkers!

I think that it is indeed more the style you'd play on a mando, not so much the thing in itself. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif

[duuuude]

I just think the mando is very easy to voice emotion through, whether happy or sad, which makes it perfect for adding that extra feeling musically. Upbeat bluegrass, low-down blues, romantic European ballads, jumpin' swing, it's got it all!
http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif

[mancmando]

I prefer to use the word cheeky to describe the sound of a mandolin rather than happy, being cheeky is more fun than just being happy to my mind

I agree that the mandolin can also sould mighty sad - flatbush waltz by andy statman i think is a good example of a sad tune. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif

[grsnovi]

This whole thread reminded me of that old Steve Martin comedy routine - the one where he claims you can't sound sad playing the banjo. He starts in with a set of really depressing sounding lyrics then goes into a really snappy, happy (typical) banjo roll.

[Mandotorious]

Thanks for the feedback, folks. I'm reminded that it's been at least four years since I've played "Dark Eyes" on my mandolin, and that I've never even thought of trying out Beethoven's "Moonlight Sonata." It's (almost) time to stop typing and start picking.

I stick to my original thesis, although I think I'd now replace the word "happy" with "cheeky" because it is excellent (Thanks, mancmando!).

Of course the mandolin can play a sad song--and can sound sad playing it. My original point (clarified in my own mind after reading everyone's replies) is that the sadness in those situations comes more from the song than from the instrument. A scale with a minor third will sound somewhat sad on any instrument--it's not my mandolin that's triggering those tears.

In fact, if I played that sad song on another instrument, I think it would sound more purely sad than it does on my mandolin. Play "Dark Eyes" or "Moonlight Sonata" on your mandolin, and then on something else. Take a violin, for instance--same range, similar size. But even this very close cousin lacks the cheekiness built into a mandolin. It can wail; a mandolin cannot. What I like about mandolins playing sad songs is precisely this: there is a complexity that happens when a cheeky instrument sings a weepy tune. There's something fighting against the sadness built into the harmonic logic of the song.

Olo Chubb-Baggins said it well: "sad, just not in a depressing way."

That--to me--is the beauty of the mandolin.

Mandotorious

[Emmiemando]

I would have to agree with you on that one. I mean, like you said, there are some songs on the mando that can seem a little saddening (Chris Thile and Sinai to Cannan Part 1). But the saddness comes from the soul of the musician that plays it. The mandolin itself is relativley happy. The music can be sad-but the mando will always be eternally a joyful thing.:D

[Moose]

johnny-mando: Your above post is one the most profound - and true - statements I've ever read - or heard. I've 'been there..., done that. Perhaps "those in the know...,know"- Thanks to Mssr. Buckhannon...and yourself for posting. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/coffee.gif

[Arto]

Interesting thread. I wholeheartedly agree with those of you saying that mandolin really can sound sad, mournful and melancholy. But somehow I feel it´s easier to sound good on the mandolin playing happy tunes, than playing the sad ones. IMHO, it requires more from the player (in technique and good tast) to play sad tunes well. Playing a slow, melancholy tune with a drawn-out tremolo is easily not melancholy but just whining.

It´s interesting, WHAT is the quality that makes some insrument feel "sad" and another "happy". The usual repertoire for a given instrument in a given time and place is most important, I think. Is fiddle/violin a sad or happy instrument? I think you´d get opposing opinions asking on Irish or Texas fiddler, or a Eastern European gipsy.

I suppose that higher register easily lends to "happy" character, but the reverse is not always true. A sad tuba? Low wind instruments like tuba and bassoon often sound "comical". On the other hand, Vivaldi has written a lot of concertos for bassoon, and the slow parts... I was once listening to one and my wife commented: "sounds like a bear weeping". (I liked that!)

I was wondering what instrument would be most melancholy-deprived, unable to sound convincingly sad? I´d say ukulele and 4-string banjo. A 5-string can sound really brooding, especially with clawhammer style and a suitable modal tuning - nothing happy here. But a 4-string?

And is there an instrument that can´t sound happy, at all? I can´t imagine one. (Maybe it´s the nature of music! :-)

greetings, Arto

[mandodebbie]

It is not the instrument that portrays feelings, but rather the artist playing it - in respect for the type of song played. An experienced musician can play a melancoly piece to sound cheerful or even "sarcastic". This is almost along the lines of "Guns don't kill people! People kill people!" but more complicated. Since I'm a lover not a fighter, I'd rather make someone cry while playing my mando...umm... skillfully, that is. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif

[John Bertotti]

Hey Mandotorious I'm not sure how this works into your thesis but when I play my wife laughs, for about the first 30 mins after that she crying. Happy, sad, tormented yea thats it tormented wheres that fit in. John http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Songbird]

I can relate to the tone and sustain of a mandolin being far from great. I was listening to one of Bach's cello pieces and tried playing it on my mandolin and it just didn't sound right, it didn't have that swaying feel to it. But maybe it's a good thing, that a piece will sound different on a mandolin (or any other instrument). It gives it a new angle, a new side to it.

[mandocrucian]

It is not the instrument that portrays feelings, but rather the artist playing it - in respect for the type of song played.

It's the player, but the the (baseline) personality and mood profile of the player is a big factor in regards to the choice of instrument that they end up playing (most). It's not that certain things can't be done a particular instrument, it's just that it may be easier, and/or more commonly heard, on a different instrument. #And this tends to siphon off players of a particular bent to those other instruments, whether it is fiddle, electric guitar, slide guitar, flute or whatever.

The institutionalized conventions of various genres can be rigid about tolerating unusual voices/instruments within the particular style, so one is faced with the choice of continual hassle or a) moving to a genre in which your instrument is more acceptable, or b) switching to an instrument that is more accepted within the style you want to play. #

There's definitely cause and effect in action, but it may difficult to determine which is the cause and which the effect. Or can it be both the cause and the effect simultaneously? #I think it's more like feedback effect where they reinforce each other.

Niles Hokkanen