Are you ready for the big stage?

[Woody Turner]

Tearing a page from rock's stagebook, some trad music bands have been adapting their acts to the BIG stage, including stadiums filled with tracking lights and smoke. Who knows, this may have been going on for decades and I missed it, as I almost never watch TV or attend rock concerts. Anyway, having just encountered the Irish supergroup Teada on YouTube at such a venue, I started thinking about how far we've traveled from five chummy pickers bobbing around a single mic. Rock introduced choreography to performances long ago, so I guess it was just a matter of time before trad players followed. It was a little eerie watching Teada as the robocameras rolled in and out among the freewheeling musicians. (A robot like one of those almost ran me down once in a studio.) Why not go the whole distance and put everybody on rollerblades?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eLpfPEdWYQw

[Woody Turner]

failed embed

[Woody Turner]

failed embed

[Greg H.]

The link seemed to work fine to me. ... .you were wanting 'Téada in Nantes France' correct?

[foldedpath]

They look a little lost on that huge empty stage, sort of randomly wandering around. I like seeing musicians interact with each other a little more. At least the music was good.

Presenting Celtic music in big stage productions probably started with "Riverdance." The commercial success of that show and its successors then spawned things like the "Celtic Woman" series, complete with synchronized hair-tossing. Those Téada guys need to practice their dance moves and hair flips while playing. :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-wzMfSiOkMQ

[Woody Turner]

"'Téada in Nantes France' correct? "

Exactly. I had hoped to import the video directly rather than use the link, which I added after my aborted attempts at embedding.

[mandomania7923]

embeded(hopefully)

[steve V. johnson]

I've read of some of the early Irish bands on big festival stages, the Bothy Band, Planxty, that generation of bands. I think they did the big outdoor festivals in Ireland, Britain and Europe.

I've seen Teada a number of times but never on a full-on modern 'show biz' stage like this. I've seen Danu on some pretty big stages; Cherish the Ladies; Green Fields of America and Patrick Street.

I'm pretty sure that the biggest Irish acts (well... the trad ones... Celtic Women and Leahy, maybe, and certainly the "celtic rock" bands are exceptions) don't carry their own staging, a big PA and lights and other visual effects. So they may be at the mercy, so to speak, of the promoter, tour package and venue with regard to how elaborate, or how simple, the staging and tech presentations might be. I am sure that they have "contract riders" for their shows, addendums to the basic contract that tell the promoter/venue just what they need to do their show, and this usually has to do with PA and lights, sometimes with amenities and transportation.
These riders are the stuff of rock legend, of course. "Only green M&Ms", "orange carpet in all the dressing rooms", and such... lol!!

I've only seen a couple of contracts for big Irish touring bands, and that was long ago, before I was really involved in Irish trad music. As I recall, those looked like any acoustic folk act, with a good stage plot and microphones and monitors specified, transport and lodging and not much more. Nothing was at all extravagant.

But I don't usually attend the really big rooms, or ... stadiums ... for any sort of show, so Irish trad bands being staged this way is as foreign to me as to you, Woody.

Am -I- ready for the Big Stage? Ahhhh, no. I don't -think- so.
I remember that Ged Foley said once that (I paraphrase) 'professional' means being able to deliver a really good time, a full experience, to your audience -on demand-, no matter what else is going on with you. That's a big job.

But if the Big Stage calls ... we'll talk. ;)

stv

[man dough nollij]

That is a very strange clip. I had no idea there were any concerts where Irish Trad band would play a stadium, and have a football-field-sized stage to play on.

Is ITM big in France? That seems odd.

I didn't see any IEMs on them, and they looked they were at least 20' away from the monitors. It must have sounded very odd from their vantage point.

They did a good job of playing, anyway. I couldn't really see the stands-- were there crowds huge enough to justify playing such a monster venue?

:confused:

[Woody Turner]

Thanks for delivering the goods to our door, mandomania.

[allenhopkins]

Played the Hunter Mountain Celtic Festival back in 1989-90, with my former band Thistledown. We were small potatoes, playing one noon Friday main-stage set to an audience of several, otherwise relegated to the beer tent -- though we had a good time alternating with Woods Tea Company.

I stuck my head into the "big tent" after our last gig Saturday, and saw some tenor banjo player billed as "All-Ireland Champion" doing his stuff with his band, and there were strobe lights and a fog machine and the sound cranked up to ear-splitting. (By the way, he played very very fast.) Looked like Grand Funk Railroad without Farner playing bare-chested. Crowd whooped and hollered and pogoed. I thought, "My gracious, doesn't meet my preconception of Celtic traditional music..." Then I grabbed a slice of pizza and went back to the motel.

[Mike Bunting]

I'm pretty sure that the biggest Irish acts (well... the trad ones... Celtic Women and Leahy,
Leahy is a Canadian band.

[foldedpath]

I didn't see any IEMs on them, and they looked they were at least 20' away from the monitors. It must have sounded very odd from their vantage point.

They all had IEM's, they were just well-rigged so you need a very close look to see it. Check out the flute player's left ear, early in the clip.

It's a nice demo of how to make the wireless gear a seamless part of the presentation. It's only noticeable with the fly-by cameras, and only if you know what to look for. From the audience perspective it must have looked like magic. There's something to be said for making the technology disappear like that, if you can deal with the cost, and have expert sound people running the PA.

On the other hand... look at how they're not really interacting, often playing with their backs to each other. No eye contact. Maybe that's necessary when you have a wrap-around stadium audience like that, but I wonder if something isn't being lost here.

On top of everything else, in a production that big, I automatically start wondering how much is live and how much is a recorded "safety" playback. Once things reach a certain scale, with the number of tickets sold for a performance that big, you'd be nuts *not* to have a fall-back if someone's mic or pickup went out.

I don't like having to wonder if it's the real thing or not (ref. Itzhak Perlman, Yo-Yo Ma, and the recent Presidential inauguration). So I guess I'll stick to listening to music in the smaller venues. :)

[steve V. johnson]

Yeah, Mike I know they're Canadian, but I've only seen them at Irish trad festivals (and on tv) and they've mostly done Irish material when I've heard 'em. And They were one of the few acts whom I thought might be carrying their own staging stuff.

No insult meant to the great nation of Canadia.

stv

[groveland]

'Téada in Nantes France'

I think this topic might actually recall other discussions about that blurred line between Art and Entertainment.

That's one BIG room. I suppose the medium is the message.

I've played a theater or big room or two... I'm NOT "ready for the big stage" if this flea circus is what we're talking about :) ...not as a performer, nor spectator!




Wow, that's a big room.

[Stephen Lind]

the larger rooms and bigger stages require higher volumes
and suck the life right out of acoustic music

the exception being the concert halls designed and built for that purpose

heck it most often doesn't even work with loud electric instruments

been there
done that
now-a-days
it's too loud
and i'm too old

[Bertram Henze]

I can't understand what the audience get from such a venue. You can hardly see the musicians from that distance; of course, there are big screens, but if I want to watch TV I stay home. The band might as well play in a spaceship orbiting the planet (towels ready!) The core fascination of acoustic music - maximum effect with minimum technology, delivered by real people you could touch with your own hand - is lost.

It is different with rock music, where technology and gigantomania is part of the concept - showcasing King Kong. But that would not apply for ITM.

Oh, and I predict that someone here will argue that this helps to make these instruments more popular...

Bertram

[Woody Turner]

"The core fascination of acoustic music - maximum effect with minimum technology, delivered by real people you could touch with your own hand - is lost."

Precisely.

Last night I saw Tim O'Brien in a cavernous barn filled with 100-150 people. Yeah, there was a sound system, along with a few stage lights, but the production was still pretty low tech--almost like a house concert. Setting and singer blended perfectly. After the show, our performer hung around outside with his lingering admirers.

[farmerjones]

20,000 people. Each want to have around 75USD worth of fun. What would i do?

I'd acknowledge the expense, and do all within my power to accomodate.
No one spends that kind of money blindly, so they'd be on my side, and into what i've been doing. So whatever it was that made them spend the money, that's what i would do. 20,000 people upset? Yikes! ! ! :grin:

[foldedpath]

Last night I saw Tim O'Brien in a cavernous barn filled with 100-150 people. Yeah, there was a sound system, along with a few stage lights, but the production was still pretty low tech--almost like a house concert. Setting and singer blended perfectly. After the show, our performer hung around outside with his lingering admirers.

Last summer, Tim O'Brien was one of the workshop/band leaders at the Centrum Festival of Amercan Fiddle Tunes, out in northwest Washington state. Early in the week there was a concert series for festival attendees only, in a small theater that sits 275 people.

On the night we went, Tim's solo act was one of the three performances. There was no amplification at all, just standing on a stage and a packed house. It does help that at a festival like this, with pretty much 100% other musicians in the audience, you can hear a pin drop in the theater. He gave a knockout performance. The high point was that "singing while playing the fiddle" bit that he does so well. Performance-wise, it was the highlight of the festival for me.

The concluding weekend of the festival, there was another concert open to the public in a huge converted blimp hanger, with a big PA system. Tim played again, with some guest artists, but it didn't have the same impact. I still enjoyed it, but there's something that just gets lost when things scale up past a certain point. And this wasn't even that large a crowd, maybe only two or three times the number in the smaller theater. It was more an effect of the size of the stage and the venue, more separation from the audience, poor viewing angles from a lot of the seats, and so on.

I have conflicted feelings about the whole thing, because as an audience member I'd always prefer house concerts or intimate shows. But from the artist side, I understand the seat-to-dollar ratio too. It's a lot of work for an artist to constantly be on the road, doing the smaller venues and trying to make that pay.

[mandomania7923]

Thanks for delivering the goods to our door, mandomania.

no problem;)

[grassrootphilosopher]

I started thinking about how far we've traveled from five chummy pickers bobbing around a single mic.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eLpfPEdWYQw

Just give me five (or six, or even seven [think about Monroe tripple fiddle]) people around a single mic and it looks like a classical ballet piece to me if carried out right. Nothing brings action more to an acoustic concert than moving around a single mic.

If you fast forward that to a stadium audience, you might even put up video screens and with a good (mostly unavailable because of deaf sound engineers) sound the acoustic band with the single mic might tear the house down.

As far as I´ve heard there was the Flatt & Scruggs band playing for a college audience in the psycodelic rock days. They encountered the long haired audience, dressed in leather garb, shades and all, probably swallowed hard and performed their best. The following bands that were billed as top acts gave up, because of the audience cheers. I´ve heard this, so it might belong in the section of urban legends, but I like to think about it as truth. On a much lesser scale I have experienced similar situations because of the directnes of the music and the amount of action on stage that is directly musically related/oriented and not just some backside shaking, hair throwing, running on stage like the rock "stars" do.

[Dagger Gordon]

It can also work the other way, to be fair.

There's a Scottish band called Peatbog Faeries who are really made for that big, open-air festival atmosphere.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4BMNF6CGOA

[Bertram Henze]

It can also work the other way, to be fair.

There's a Scottish band called Peatbog Faeries who are really made for that big, open-air festival atmosphere.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4BMNF6CGOA

Yeah, there is that element of blood, sweat and testosterone so often associated with highland pipes (designed to frighten away English armies, weren't they?). And it fits with a music style bordering on heavy metal, where the big stage and kilowatts rock the floor. In between, one highland piper in a small pub can have a similar effect, sending the audience through windows, ears a-bleed. Somewhere in that spectrum is also Heather Alexander (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCrnF844_ww).

Bertram

[Dagger Gordon]

You have to admit, though, that the Peatbogs are really great for the job. It clearly travels well - that clip was recorded at The Rainforest Festival in Indonesia!

They're very good players who know exactly what they're doing. I'm not sure if you've watched it all, but after about 5 minutes they get into some traditional reels which really get the crowd going. The guitarist has spent time in Africa and I believe studied with Ali Farka Toure. Check out his African style guitar at about 8 mins into it.

There are several other videos you can watch. A more local one to where I live is at Belladrum Festival.

[Woody Turner]

For me, I'm afraid the Peatbogs are a case of You Had To Be There. The fuzzy audio and video really didn't rally my armies, not at least the way that the Battlefield Band does here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TX5RbEXjdPI even with the fog machines.
As for Heather, well... I guess you need to be in gothic mode to get the full benefit.

[Dagger Gordon]

You probably do have to be there with the Peatbogs. Nonetheless, they do excel on the big stage, which is the point of the thread.

I've got to admit I've never heard of Heather Alexander. Where does she come from? Not really my kind of thing, I'm afraid.

[man dough nollij]

Thanks for the Peatbog clip-- they rock!

I saw the Battlefield Band in a small venue ten years or so ago-- they were great. Also saw Ashley McIsaac in a bar once-- he's pretty awesome, too.

Sorry, no big stage content. I think arena shows are stupid. When you get the Stones or Elton John, it makes some sense to have a mega-huge venue, but not from any music appreciation standpoint. Nope.

[fredfrank]

I saw a clip of Mountain Heart all plugged in with wireless gear at a festival somewhere. They were wandering around the stage like they weren't sure what to do with all this freedom. And, from what I've heard from people who were actually there, they were way too loud.

I'm with some of the posters above in stating I like the small venues where you don't need rock 'n roll sized pa's, and musicians who gather around a single mic. I don't even mind them using more than one mic, but it's just cooler when they are close enough to interact with each other and the audience.

[catmandu2]

...Looked like Grand Funk Railroad without Farner playing bare-chested...

:mandosmiley::))

[Bertram Henze]

I've got to admit I've never heard of Heather Alexander. Where does she come from? Not really my kind of thing, I'm afraid.

Nor mine. American female singer and fiddler with arms fit for weight lifting. Not the kind of person I'd like to meet in a dark back street.

Bertram