Best top wood for an A5 mandolin? [Archive]

Matt B

Apr-15-2009, 8:12pm

What wood would builders or experienced players recommend for the top of an A5 mandolin. I've seen the sitka spruce on a Kentucky KM1000 and red spruce is common also. Anyone have experience using Englemann Spruce? Everyone seems to like spruce but is there any spruce that is clearly superior? Thanks all! :mandosmiley:

JEStanek

Apr-15-2009, 8:48pm

Matt B, Welcome to the Café!

Wellllll, they're all kinda different and have strengths and weaknesses on their own. Are you looking for a particular tone? Is there a particular style of music the instrument will be used for mainly? I would hesitate to call any one the Best. Our builders (and tonewood supliers) may have opinions on which, when carved properly, will give the best tonal response for a specific sound you're after.

Jamie

Bill Snyder

Apr-15-2009, 9:25pm

...Everyone seems to like spruce but is there any spruce that is clearly superior? Thanks all! :mandosmiley:

NO. Since not everyone is after the same sound there can never be A superior species. What you like may not be what I like.
Of course assuming you have a good piece of (insert tonewood name here) the builder makes a big difference in the sound.

Spruce

Apr-15-2009, 9:46pm

...there can never be A superior species.

I disagree...

Picea koyamai--the infamous Koyama spruce--is by far the species of spruce that is clearly superior for the top of an A model mandolin....

(Unfortunately it's not so hot in an F model)... :redface:

Bill Snyder

Apr-15-2009, 9:54pm

Bruce, you keep a lot of that on hand do you? :)
Do you go to Japan to harvest it yourself?

sunburst

Apr-16-2009, 12:49am

JEStanek

Apr-16-2009, 6:41am

John wins the Best Post of the Morning award. :))

Jamie

D.E.Williams

Apr-16-2009, 8:14am

The best is West Virginia red spruce, and to narrow it down further, there's one particular piece of West Virginia red spruce from one certain tree that is the very best of all time. It just so happens that I have that piece of wood right here...

Yeah John, you may have *a* piece, but I have the rest of that tree....

:disbelief:

:whistling:

;)

Lefty Luthier

Apr-16-2009, 9:02am

I have used many types of spruce and cedar for soundboards and found that most worked quite well if properly tuned. My favorite is spruce from Kamchatka Island which is very similar to Sitka but usually lighter in color, sometimes nearly white. The difficulty is finding a piece that does not have sap streaks or tiny knots. I weighed two F5 soundboards, one from Red Spruce and another from Kamchatka and found that it was 15 grams lighter than the Red. This makes a significant difference in high frequency response.

Spruce

Apr-16-2009, 9:09am

The best is West Virginia red spruce, and to narrow it down further, there's one particular piece of West Virginia red spruce from one certain tree that is the very best of all time. It just so happens that I have that piece of wood right here...

Hey John...

I've heard what that wood of yours would sound like in an A model, and it just simply doesn't compare at all to what Koyama would sound like...

So there... :mandosmiley:

Darryl Wolfe

Apr-16-2009, 9:24am

Spruce

Apr-16-2009, 9:32am

"wood butcher" I love it SPRUCE

I wonder what Gibson did with the rest of the tree that Monroes 73987 F5 came from? They couldn't have used it because none of the others sound like it. Oh wait, the rest of the tree was used for A2Z's..that's it!!

I think you're on to something, Darryl...

That distinctive curved grain on the bass-side half of 73987 is a dead giveaway, and something that (as we all know) we see in every A2Z in the Archive...

Wow..
Why didn't I ever notice that?? :redface:

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee22/e_stamp/73987_frank_ray_1.jpg

billhay4

Apr-16-2009, 11:14am

Well, Matt,
You see what happens when a bunch of luthiers get hold of a topic that has been discussed for literally centuries with no satisfactory conclusion being reached.
If you're going to have an instrument built, trust your luthier to find a top wood that will match the sound you want in an instrument. Anything else is a guessing game.
If you're buying an instrument used or off the shelf, trust your ears, or the ears of someone who is knowledgeable about mandolins (it IS helpful to hear someone else play an instrument).
If you're trolling, you're in productive waters.
Bill

Bruce Clausen

Apr-16-2009, 11:25am

Good advice, Bill. Interesting to notice on Wikipedia that Koyama Spruce is characterised by "scattered pubescence".

BC

squirrelabama

Apr-16-2009, 12:14pm

curved like this? ;)

Matt B

Apr-16-2009, 6:34pm

Yes I am having an A5 built and he usually uses red spruce. He has some englemann spruce which is considerably lighter but he has never used it before. I don't want to take a chance on something that I may regret. I like to play bluegrass, jazz, dawg music, classical, old time, etc... so I guess I want a responsive versatile wood that has a nice tone and sustain but also can be heard when playing with other instruments. Am I asking for too much?! He also has some 100 year old wood from a violin maker. Is old wood better than new?

Spruce

Apr-16-2009, 6:48pm

He has some englemann spruce which is considerably lighter but he has never used it before.

Don't go there...
I speak from experience.

In an attempt to turn a good friend--and well-known maker--onto Red Spruce, I had him build me a mando out of the stuff...
He wasn't used to it, and we both agreed it wasn't one of his best efforts....

But he sure dialed it in later... ;)

He has some englemann spruce...

It's "Engelmann"...
Spelling will help when folks search for info on the species somewhere down the line...

Is old wood better than new?

Not necessarily...
Good wood is good wood, and if it's old that might be a plus...

But I see a lot of bad old wood too... ;)

Bill Snyder

Apr-16-2009, 8:54pm

Matt, just in case you have not figured it out yet, Bruce (Spruce) is highly respected on the board as a tonewood dealer.

mandomania7923

Apr-16-2009, 9:02pm

Do you think something like carpathian, German, or italian would be good for him spruce? I haven't dealt with these woods but I heard they are great.

sunburst

Apr-16-2009, 9:29pm

Wood that the builder is familiar with will probably be best.

mandomania7923

Apr-16-2009, 9:38pm

May we ask the who the builder is?

JEStanek

Apr-17-2009, 7:25am

I'm a fan of letting a builder do some experimenting on a custom build for me. Things like design shapes, finish colors, tail piece design but when it comes to the tonewoods, I wouldn't ask a builder to take that kind of experimental risk on an instrument I was commissioning. I would prefer if the builder at least had a couple of instruments built with their wood options and understand how that wood differs from what they've used before.

I wouldn't want my contractor using a new concrete mix for the foundation of my house without their having tested it out before, nor would I have wanted my cake baker to use some new type of flour on our wedding cake!

Listen to the smart builders here (of which I'm not one but have trusted some).

Jamie

Spruce

Apr-17-2009, 11:34am

Wood that the builder is familiar with will probably be best.

+1...

Unless you can get your hands on a good chunk of Koyama... ;)

sunburst

Apr-17-2009, 11:51am

I said that because I have the best piece of wood, and I ain't lettin' it go(!), so the builder will be stuck with using the familiar...

Lefty Luthier

Apr-17-2009, 12:20pm

Familiarity with a particular type of soundboard wood is vital to repeatable results. For this reason, I generally buy the largest piece of spruce possible from a select tree. I never experiment with a commissioned mandolin but do so frequently for speculative instruments. If one can find a good chunk of Kamchatka spruce my advice is to grab it for in all my years I have never found a better soundboard wood.

mandomania7923

Apr-17-2009, 6:18pm

I know you guys are joking about the koyama but has anybody used it?

Spruce

Apr-17-2009, 8:34pm

I know you guys are joking about the koyama but has anybody used it?

:mandosmiley:

mandomania7923

Apr-17-2009, 9:18pm

come on Bruce!

Matt B

Apr-17-2009, 10:08pm

May we ask the who the builder is?

Yes, he is Mike Otis from NY. Well known in the Old Songs Festival and a great luthier according to the professional players that have his instruments. I am commissioning # 10. He makes maybe 2 a year and I have waited 5 years for my number to come up! He also is an excellent fiddle player and repairs all types of string instruments.

He specializes in A5 reproductions. email him at a5-mando@att.net

Last question - 22 frets is a good choice, or is that too many?

mandomania7923

Apr-17-2009, 10:27pm

That's what the original had, go for it. Also, if he could, I would do the original body style, not the contemporary modified version. You get alot more volume out of the older style(i think so)

barry k

Apr-17-2009, 11:04pm

I have gained access to spruce boat paddles used exclusively in the rivers around Venice Italy. These paddles are made from the very same spruce that noted 17th century Italian violin builders used. It was harvested from the highest peaks in Europe and brought down to the low elevation by Hannible's elephants. Paddles are exactly 11 inches wide and 5/8 inches thick....the only wood I would use for a "A" model. I will be listing some for sale soon....$4000.00 a top, a real bargain. lol