Pretty Fair Maid in the Garden - meaning

[David M.]

Any take on the meaning of these lyrics? The version I know is from Tim O'Brien. So, is the guy who's having the conversation with her actually her "true loving soldier", so it's kind of a joke between them? Or is this a true stranger and she forget about her lover when this guy brings out a ring? Or is he playing a trick on her since she doesn't recognize him? Beautiful song and our bass player asked about the meaning at last practice. We're gonna sing this at our next gig, it seems, so I started thinking about it and can read it a few different ways. Maybe I'm reading too much into it (or not enough...).


Pretty Fair Maid In The Garden
From Fiddler's Green
(Traditional, Arrangement Tim O'Brien)

Pretty fair maid was in her garden
When a stranger came a-riding by
He came up to the gate and called her
Said pretty fair maid would you be my bride

She said I've a true love who's in the army
And he's been gone for seven long years
And if he's gone for seven years longer
I'll still be waiting for him here

Perhaps he's on some watercourse drowning
Perhaps he's on some battlefield slain
Perhaps he's to a fair girl married
And you may never see him again

Well if he's drown, I hope he's happy
Or if he's on some battlefield slain
And if he's to some fair girl married
I'll love the girl that married him

He took his hand out of his pocket
And on his finger he wore a golden ring
And when she saw that band a-shining
A brand new song her heart did sing

And then he threw his arms all around her
Kisses gave her one, two, three
Said I'm your true and loving soldier
That's come back home to marry thee

Pretty fair maid was in her garden
When a stranger came a-riding by
He came up to the gate and called her
Said pretty fair maid would you be my bride

[Fred Keller]

This is an old theme right out of the British Isles and the Childe Ballads. Dervish does a song called "There Was A Maid In Her Father's Garden" that's essentially the same as this.

Back before cell phones it was not unknown for people to be separated for long periods of time. If a man and a woman promised themselves to each other and then one had to go away (the man going to sea, often for years, is a common motif) they would often give each other some token to both remember them by and to recognize each other when they met again. Keep in mind, sea voyages could be years long and it's not too far beyond understanding that physical changes could make people difficult to recognize.

Another common gift of this sort was the broken coin--the couple would split a coin in two and would know each other when they matched the coin again.

[mrmando]

Let me guess: You have the sort of bass player who plays a flatted fifth instead of a root every once in a while, just because it seems to fit.

The dude is the true loving soldier, whom the maid doesn't recognize after seven years. You can pretty much take a lyric like this at face value.

[swampstomper]

I've always thought that she recognized him all along, but pretended not to, so that when he tested her faithfulness by pretending to be someone else, she could really lay it on thick "I love the girl that married him", come on!

BTW I far prefer the Stanley Brothers version to Tim's. They learned it from New Lost City Ramblers, IRIC.

[acousticphd]

Essentially the same theme and similar verse content as "John Riley", which was covered by the Byrds, among others.

I always thought the motives of the soldier/sailor character were a little dark, but maybe he figured she'd have been taken in his 7-yr absence.

[Eddie Sheehy]

I went over it with my Da Vinci codebreaker but I couldn't find the Holy Grail... take it at face value...

[JeffD]

Its a classic theme that shows up in many ways in human culture. In the movies there was "The Return of Martin Guerre" and its American take called "Sommersby", with Richard Gere and Jodie Foster.

Technology has probably eradicated the need for the worry, for the most part, but the roots of it run deep in all cultures.

[evanreilly]

I always thought it curious that Bill Monroe recorded both "Pretty Fair Maid" and another very similarly-themed ballad ("Midnight on the Stormy Deep") on the same Album, Decca DL7-4896, the famous "Blue Grass Time".
Rosenberg writes that: "...Bill's version , which came from his mother, the Napoleonic-era soldier of the original broadside [ballad] had changed to a cowboy."
I always thought both songs expressed a very similar content. Almost close in feeling.
And both featured Peter Rowan on guitar, whom I believe was instrumental in having Bill dig back into the historical ballad collections.
Unfortunately, the only studio recording of Rowan and Monroe singing together is on "Midnight", an unfortunate result of a minor disagreement between Bill & his guitar-man.

[David M.]

Let me guess: You have the sort of bass player who plays a flatted fifth instead of a root every once in a while, just because it seems to fit.


No. She plays a washtub bass :)


Anyone know which Stanley Bros. album this was on? I'd love to hear their version.

I still struggle with the reality of not recognizing someone after only a few years.

[allenhopkins]

One of the broad category of "broken token" songs, in which one of a pair of lovers is going (to sea, to war, to be a cowboy) for an extended period, and takes some token from the other. In many cases, a ring is broken in half (hence the title), and each lover keeps on half. When the roving lover returns, he (it's usually the man) is unrecognizable, so the tests the other lover by saying, "Marry me -- your sweetheart's never coming back." When the other lover refuses, saying she'll stay true to the absent one, he reveals himself, shows the broken token, and of course they live happily ever after.

Besides John Riley and the various versions of Pretty Fair Miss In the Garden, there are Claudy Banks or Banks of Claudy (Fairport Convention, Young Tradition), and even a Canadian version called, oddly enough, The Broken Token.

Both Art Thieme (That's the Ticket) and Mike Agranoff (also The Broken Token) have written parodies on this theme. So has my friend Joanne Davis, now of Woodstock, who made the token a broken bagel.

[mrmando]

I've always thought that she recognized him all along, but pretended not to.
Yes, that could be ... they might be bantering a bit, each pretending not to know the other. But I think it unlikely that he actually was a stranger for the sake of whose gold ring she threw over her soldier-boy. I don't see any support for that interpretation, either textually or contextually, as they teach you to say in seminary. Besides, that sort of thing happens in real life, not in ballads.

No. She plays a washtub bass :)
Ah. So all her roots sound like flatted fifths!

[man dough nollij]

I really like the theme of this song, and the song in general. It may be old hat, but it's cool.

The idea is that an engaged couple, separated by a few years, see each other out of context.

The girl sees her betrothed in unfamiliar garb, with maybe a beard or other disguise. She knows it's her guy, but she plays coy.

He coughs up the proof (the ring, or whatever), and she blows her cover.

Kind of sweet and innocent, yet proof of true love. Sickly sweet? Maybe. Likely? No. Classic? Yes, of course.

[swampstomper]

Anyone know which Stanley Bros. album this was on? I'd love to hear their version.

I still struggle with the reality of not recognizing someone after only a few years.

It was from one of the King records in the early 60's with George Shuffler picking the lead guitar; this is available as a single CD Don't cheat in our hometown (http://www.countysales.com/php-bin/ecomm4/products.php?category_id=&product_id=3642&prev_id=5445&next_id=5484). It's been reissued on The King Years 1961-1965 (http://www.countysales.com/php-bin/ecomm4/products.php?category_id=&product_id=3484&prev_id=4966&next_id=3536) which covers all of the last years of Carter Stanley.

For another but Stanley-related take on this, try the Queen of Mountain Soul, Patty Loveless (http://www.countysales.com/php-bin/ecomm4/products.php?category_id=&product_id=2674&prev_id=5708&next_id=4780). There's also a nice duet with Ralph and Alison Kraus on Clinch Mountain Country (http://www.countysales.com/php-bin/ecomm4/products.php?category_id=&product_id=1707&prev_id=4780&next_id=740) double CD (which IMHO is crucial listening throughout).

When you are looking for a particular song, just go to County Sales and search by song title. In this case there are lots of old-time versions as well as the one's we've mentioned in this thread.

[auteq]

Back before cell phones it was not unknown for people to be separated for long periods of time. If a man and a woman promised themselves to each other and then one had to go away (the man going to sea, often for years, is a common motif) they would often give each other some token to both remember them by and to recognize each other when they met again. Keep in mind, sea voyages could be years long and it's not too far beyond understanding that physical changes could make people difficult to recognize.

Another common gift of this sort was the broken coin--the couple would split a coin in two and would know each other when they matched the coin again.

There is the Martin Guerre case. Several years after he had left his family, a man claiming to be Guerre took his name and lived with Guerre's wife and son for three years. After a trial to figure out if Guerre was the original, which 200 people testified on both sides, the real Martin Guerre returned,(Doh!) the impostor, Arnaud du Tilh, was discovered and executed.

NYTimes story 1874 of Guerre and another similar case, appartently as a comment on a third English case about Tiehborne.

http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?_r=1&res=990CE4DC143BEF34BC4F53DFB066838F669FDE

[JeffD]

There is the Martin Guerre case. ]

You left out one particular. The woman's true husband, before he left for the war, was not a particularly attentive lover. In some versions of the story he ignores her, in other versions, he is mean or even cruel. This adds to the drama, because the fellow who comes back from the war is usually a wonderful lover, and it is ambiguous whether the women remembers him, or prefers him.

[auteq]

You left out one particular. The woman's true husband, before he left for the war, was not a particularly attentive lover. In some versions of the story he ignores her, in other versions, he is mean or even cruel. This adds to the drama, because the fellow who comes back from the war is usually a wonderful lover, and it is ambiguous whether the women remembers him, or prefers him.

True, the article I attached dances around this by calling MG-1 a non-devoted husband and MG-2 a kinder one, but it is from 1874.

To bring this back to smooth taste of Mando-country, being such a famous 16th century case, is there a "Martin Guerre" reel, hornpipe, or jig. I mean, it seems you could do a whole Old Time set on Bonaparte’s escapades around Europe. (..crossing the Rhine, Retreat, (his wife) Madame B, Waterloo reel, Napoleon's Charge, etc.)

[Landgrass]

Reminds me of Wesley and Buttercup, but then again, he wore a mask.

[acousticphd]

There is the Martin Guerre case.

Wasn't there another twist, at least in the movie w/ Gerard Depardieu? The two men had met one another (maybe in the army or in prison or at some occupation), and in the course of things, the imposter got enough of the back-story from the real Martin, so that when he showed up in the girl's town telling people he was Martin returned from afar, he was able to convincingly fool nearly everyone. It seemed in this movie the girl soon realized it was not her true husband, but she preferred his replacement.

[TinaBee1]

I first heard the song by Bill Monroe on a CD I think is called "Live at Newport". Mr. Monroe plays the mandolin and there is a guitar. A friend of mine brought it to me because he plays the guitar and I play the mandolin. He wanted to sing the song as a male/female duet. I then heard the song on a Good Ol Persons CD with different words. I took verses from both and made my own version which I ended up singing by myself because my friend couldn't get the timing. I really like the song.

[JeffD]

Wasn't there another twist, at least in the movie w/ Gerard Depardieu? The two men had met one another (maybe in the army or in prison or at some occupation), and in the course of things, the imposter got enough of the back-story from the real Martin, so that when he showed up in the girl's town telling people he was Martin returned from afar, he was able to convincingly fool nearly everyone. It seemed in this movie the girl soon realized it was not her true husband, but she preferred his replacement.

Zactly.

I don't remember how that plot element was handled in Sommersby.

[Chris Keth]

Reminds me of Wesley and Buttercup, but then again, he wore a mask.

Which wasn't exactly much of a disguise. It would be inconceivable of her to really not recognize him.

[kestrel]

Might I toss in another possible consideration?

It wasn't really all that long ago that the average human lifespan was half what it is now, and it was common that people courted and married in their teens - after puberty, but long before mature stature had been reached. It was also common - as it, unfortunately, still is - for children to be sent off to war. A clean shaven fourteen or fifteen-year old going off to sea, or battle, back in the 19th, 18th, 16th... Century, would be subjected to harshness and privation which would take a great toll on the physical form of a still growing boy, in seven-years time. It was quite common, throughout most of history, for men to wear beards, and a returning twenty-two, or twenty-three-year old, sporting the ravages of the sun, starvation, disease, physical and emotional scars of battle, and quite likely a full beard, would be a far different looking person than the child who had gone away.

Gene

[JeffD]

It was quite common, throughout most of history, for men to wear beards, and a returning twenty-two, or twenty-three-year old, sporting the ravages of the sun, starvation, disease, physical and emotional scars of battle, and quite likely a full beard, would be a far different looking person than the child who had gone away.


With your drums and guns and drums and guns, hurroo, hurroo
With your drums and guns and drums and guns, hurroo, hurroo
With your drums and guns and drums and guns
The enemy nearly slew ye
Oh my darling dear, Ye look so queer
Johnny I hardly knew ye.

[allenhopkins]

...Johnny I hardly knew ye.

As I remember, Johnny "hadn't an arm, and hadn't a leg," was "an eyeless, boneless, chicken-less egg.."

Wasn't just his beard that made him hard to recognize.

[man dough nollij]

No, that was Humpty. TOTALLY different song!

[ApK]

I, too, immediately thought of Princess Bride.


Which wasn't exactly much of a disguise. It would be inconceivable of her to really not recognize him.

You keep using that word....:)

Well, he had a mustache, too. And when they were together, he was a stable boy and usually covered in horse manure.

Also, I think it's sort of nice in the idea that for MOST of the time they knew each other she paid no attention to him at all, and later, she fell in love with his 'inner-self,' not his physical appearance, so what he looked liked what not what she was preoccupied with for the intervening years.

And swampstomper...talk about being suspicious of a woman's motives!! Geesh!