Mandolin expense as a percentage of income

[Michael Gowell]

We all enjoy discussing our first mandolin purchase, or our most recent, or the next hoped-for acquisition. But to put aside talk of models and builders, it occurred to me that it might be interesting - and a better measure of our commitment/interest - to think about the arc of our purchases.

For me, my first mandolin cost about a day's earnings. My second cost just over a week's income. My third was almost a month's worth and my last - for which I re-upped my home equity loan - was 3 month's worth of income.

My first was of no value after a couple of years of learning, my second was a partial trade-in for my third, and #3 & 4 are with me, hopefully forever.

But regardless of the acquisition strategy, the cost of your mando as a proportion of your income must measure something...

[mandroid]

Income from Gigs or your day Job?

[Nate]

My first mandolin I purchased as a student with leftover scholarship / work-study funds. It was about one month's worth of my super-part-time wage.

My most recent purchase was about one week's worth, though it was more expensive than my first purchase. I guess this is kind of a backwards pattern. Heh.

I think the most I'd be willing to spend on an instrument (barring the grand piano I'll get one day) would be about one month's income, regardless of what that worked out to be.

A month's worth is about what I paid for a digital piano (piano my main instrument) I had to replace a few months back. Piano is less of a "hobby" than mandolin, though, as I have a part-time church gig.

Unless I started playing professionally or full-time, I can't ever see myself putting more than a month of my day job into an instrument. You can get a really nice instrument at even a poverty-level one-month wage.

[Michael Gowell]

Mandroid, I was thinking total income. You know, so you can think about your mandolin's cost in the context of all of life's expenses.

[Nate]

Perhaps it would be helpful to compare it to other "life expense" percentages, like cars, wedding rings, etc. Heh.

My wife and I's rings cost about one month's worth of my grad student income. About a week's worth of what I make now. We wouldn't have paid much more.

My next car purchase will be maybe 4 to 5 month's income. Last purchase was maybe 1 to 2 current month's worth.

My most recent mandolin purchase cost almost exactly what it cost for our rings, then. If I buy another, I could see maybe paying ~15% what I would for a car.

[billkilpatrick]

does a house-hubby's allowance count as income?

- "rooster" bill

[steve V. johnson]

Good question/topic.

I often wonder about the financial environments that support a habit made of $10k mandolins.
I'm sure there are quite a few variations of those environments...

stv

[Chris Biorkman]

Please tell me what mandolin you play so that I can extrapolate your annual salary and compare it to mine. ;)

[squirrelabama]

Ever spend more on a mando than you did on your wife's engagement ring??

[Nate]

Ever spend more on a mando than you did on your wife's engagement ring??

See above. Totally. A bit more than both our rings together, and it was not an expensive mandolin. :p

[Bob Wiegers]

meh. I could buy both guitars and both mandolins I own with one paycheck. so what?

what does it measure? I'm incredibly cheap when it comes to buying stuff (which is apparently cool now), I enjoy making do with what I have and not worrying about it, and I'm probably overpaid.

[squirrelabama]

I'm not sure it measures anything. What it may symbolize or say to others about that person....? I'm not going there. I'm curious to know if the intent of this thread was to help someone justify spending an amount of money on a mando that obviously their gut is telling them is way too much.

[GTG]

I will say that my mando cost about 50% of what my car cost when I bought it (used). But my mando should still be worth what I paid for it, and my car is now worth about the same - maybe.

[Mike Bunting]

Y'all are far too focussed on money.

[GTG]

Y'all are far too focussed on money.

Well, some folks think this site is too focused on mandos, and not enough on music (see this (http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/showthread.php?t=48887) thread, post #13, eg). Assuming that buying a nice mando is a significant purchase for most people, and there is an opportunity cost (say, less traveling, a bigger mortgage) of buying such an instrument, the two are closely linked.

I agree it a bit personal - if you know the percentage, and you know the cost of one's mando, you can figure out people's salary, which is pretty personal information.

[Mike Bunting]

Well, some folks think this site is too focused on mandos, and not enough on music (see this thread, post #13, eg). Assuming that buying a nice mando is a significant purchase for most people, and there is an opportunity cost (say, less traveling, a bigger mortgage) of buying such an instrument, the two are closely linked.
It is the Mandolincafe. You call getting a bigger mortgage an opportunity? Anyhow, it proves my point. Also, I was referring to much of the general tone that I see in many posts, e.g. "If I buy X mandolin, what will the resale value be?"

[sgarrity]

In the grande scheme of things what I have invested in mandolins and guitars just isn't that much money. There are plenty of people making less money than I do riding around on a $25k Harley or spending a couple hundred every weekend at the golf course. It's all about priorities.....

[Greenmando]

Ever spend more on a mando than you did on your wife's engagement ring??

A good bottle of 18 year old scotch cost more than both our wedding rings. We bought our rings from a machinist, made in titanium. ~o)

[mandozilla]

Y'all are far too focussed on money.

Right on Mike! Being moneycentric and materially aquisitive ain't all it's cracked up to be...I have plenty of dough and tons of STUFF that I really don't care about...that's why I play music.:grin:

Music (BG mandolin in particular) takes me away from all that truly meaningless c**p. Bottom line, if you're serious about mandolin, buy the best that you're comfortable buying and enjoy the heck out of the one you've got. ;)

When the earth and worms have their claim it won't matter anyhow...no offense intended just prattling.:))

Now back to mandolin content.

:mandosmiley:

[John Flynn]

I'm not a professional musician and have no ambitions to be, so I don't consider musical instruments as tools. Also for me, they are not investments, at least not good ones. So even though I am serious about playing music, beyond having one each of a reasonably playable guitar, mandolin and harmonica to keep me sane, the rest is gravy. Beyond that it is "toy acquisition." I've never looked at the cost of instruments as a percentage of income. However, I've typically bought my instruments to "celebrate" the occasion of raises or bonuses. Over the years, and even today, I could certainly have spent a lot more than I have on mandolins, but I'm glad I haven't.

I get more satisfaction out of finding good deals on instruments, or "diamonds in the rough." If I play an expensive instrument and think, "my less expensive instrument sounds better," that is more satisfying to me than owning the expensive one. Also, I'd rather keep my focus on playing well and being realistic about my playing. At my intermediate level, a bit more time practicing will make me sound a lot better than spending a lot of money on a more expensive mandolin. Finally, I wouldn't feel right playing out with a "big nameplate" mandolin. I'd feel like I'd need to play a whole lot better to do that.

[JEStanek]

I'm with Shaun and John Flynn. My mandolin "habit" is way less expensive than other hobbies. I don't collect cars, tools, motorcycles, bass boats, or golf clubs and their requisite expenses. I have a comparatively inexpensive hobby that I can practice in all kinds of weather all throughout the year. My biggest health risk from it is a poked finger and maybe some wrist or shoulder issues if I'm not prudent.

I feel my priorities are right on for me and where my life is at for the moment. If needs required it, I would be happy to own a well set up Lone Star or my old bowlback if I could feed my kids. I've found my way to enjoy my life and I've got no regrets.

Jamie

[Eddie Sheehy]

Ever spend more on a mando than you did on your wife's engagement ring??

Yes.:redface:

[Eddie Sheehy]

My mando collecting is for "catch and release". That way I get to play expensive mandolins but I don't really "own" them. My savings are earning negative interest right now so as long as the mandos hold their "used" value I'm transferring the potential "interest" into playing experience. Unfortunately right now I need to release some to cover my taxes then I can get back to catching them again...

[mandozilla]

moment. If needs required it, I would be happy to own a well set up Lone Star or my old bowlback if I could feed my kids. I've found my way to enjoy my life and I've got no regrets.

Good for you Jamie...it sounds like you've got your priorities in order.;)

:mandosmiley:

[Mike Bunting]

Right on Mike! Being moneycentric and materially aquisitive ain't all it's cracked up to be...I have plenty of dough and tons of STUFF that I really don't care about...that's why I play music.:grin:

Music (BG mandolin in particular) takes me away from all that truly meaningless c**p. Bottom line, if you're serious about mandolin, buy the best that you're comfortable buying and enjoy the heck out of the one you've got. ;)

When the earth and worms have their claim it won't matter anyhow...no offense intended just prattling.:))

Now back to mandolin content.

:mandosmiley:
You got it!

[billkilpatrick]

this is shaping up to be an economy based - rather than mandolin based - thread and .. based on past moderation of same ... it'll be stomped on pretty soon. those who can afford to pay four or five figures for their mandolins risk being regarded as distinct from those who spend far less. call it "mando-circumspection" or "reality check" - but conspicuous consumption, as a way of life, is over. to quote fashion mogul, karl lagerfield - due to the economic crisis, so is "bling."

.. over to you damoclese!

[Mike Bunting]

That's what it was when it started.

[scgc.om]

Spend 3 months gross income on a mandolin . . . ?

"Ain't Nobody's Business If I Do!"

Having said that, it does BECOME the business of those around me at a jam . . . Fellow players in the Circle tell me they get an EARFUL of CHOP on every upbeat!

Very recently I finally took delivery of a ROCKET LAUNCHER I commissioned and paid deposit for back in Sept '06. So add to the "COST" of a fine mandolin the WAIT TIME (and anticipation!!).

Was / Is it worth the $$$$$ and t i m e ? ABSOLUTELY! I'm certain I now own one of the "1000 Best" Mandolins in existence. Sure cured my MAS . . . ! AND I'm already a better player.

My $0.02 --> If you're playing the "Back 9 of Life", why not play with the Best Clubs?

A truly fine mandolin, to one who'll appreciate it (regardless of their income), is not primarily an expense -- it's a Blessing.

[JeffD]

Compare the cost of your mandolin as a percentage of your income

to the amount of time playing as a percentage of time at work


I spend a lot more time on my mandolins than money.


My point is that our investment in money is nothing compared to our investment in time and energy.

[Bob Borzelleri]

this is shaping up to be an economy based - rather than mandolin based - thread and .. based on past moderation of same ... it'll be stomped on pretty soon. those who can afford to pay four or five figures for their mandolins risk being regarded as distinct from those who spend far less. call it "mando-circumspection" or "reality check" - but conspicuous consumption, as a way of life, is over. to quote fashion mogul, karl lagerfield - due to the economic crisis, so is "bling."

.. over to you damoclese!

And then there are those who can afford to pay four or five figures for their mandolins but who wouldn't even before the economic downturn. Nobody actually needs to pay those prices (5 figures, in particular; four figures covers from $1K to $9,999) in order to own and play an instrument that puts out quality sound. In my view, this question is one of the clearest examples of distinguishing between needs and wants.

[OldSausage]

Everybody gets the mandolin they deserve.

[Frank Johnson]

And then there are those who can afford to pay four or five figures for their mandolins but who wouldn't even before the economic downturn. Nobody actually needs to pay those prices (5 figures, in particular; four figures covers from $1K to $9,999) in order to own and play an instrument that puts out quality sound. In my view, this question is one of the clearest examples of distinguishing between needs and wants.

Yup. My needs aren't as high as my wants.

I paid about 2 hours wage for my first mandolin, and then paid ten hours wage for one that's just a little bit better. But if I made a living playing music I'd certainly pay a larger percentage.

By the way, is there a thread about how many make a living playing, how many don't make a living but play out amongst the public, and how many just play to play?

[barney 59]

The percentage of mandolinists that make a living playing mandolin ? That 's really funny-- I'd say it's just above none. When I was in my 20's and was living basically out of a truck and my annual income was maybe $3000 a year-- If you call that a living--well then,once upon a time I made my living playing the mandolin. When I had a family and bills I went to strictly amateur standing. As to the cost of a good mandolin compared to other things in life that might be considered add- ons such as movies,eating out,dvd rentals,cable t.v. the bar etc. and compared to the amount of time and enjoyment you get from it --and it will probably last your lifetime--a good musical instrument is a bargain even for a total amateur. I have 2 mandolins and 2 guitars that are forever keepers not only because they are good instruments but they carry alot of sentiment as well.I have others that I fix up and trade around but that is another hobby/advocation and doesn't really play into this thread.

[Ivan Kelsall]

Some folk on here might be thinking - 'what income ?',right now,
Saska :(

[swampstomper]

"If you're playing the "Back 9 of Life", why not play with the Best Clubs?"

>> Agreed! So when I'm coming to the 18th tee I will throw all caution to the wind....

"Nobody actually needs to pay those prices (5 figures, in particular; four figures covers from $1K to $9,999) in order to own and play an instrument that puts out quality sound."

>> Quality, yes. The kind of sound that just grabs you and won't let go... that's another thing. Or a work of art made by a master, irreproducible. Not that I own anything in that range, but I can see how a particularly instrument can be worth that (and I am not talking about collectors).

Since I moved to the Netherlands almost 12 years ago I haven't owned an automobile. After deducting my expenses for bicycle, public transportation, and the occasional rental car, I am easily EUR 2000 ahead each year. An easy choice that lets me get an instrument a year if I want. So far I've commissioned a Lebeda mandolin, mandola and a Prucha open-backed b***jo.

It's about priorities and life-style choices.

And yes I spend a lot more time enjoying my instruments than acquiring them!

[atetone]

I was talking to a builder of mandolins a couple of years ago about ordering a custom mandolin in around the $3.5 to 5k range.
Through the course of conversation I was told that the waiting list would be much longer if that builder was set up to accept credit cards, but wasn't interested in doing it.
In my ignorance of what was going on I was astounded for a brief moment.
Apparently a large percentage of new custom mandolin orders are placed on credit cards.
Borrowed money.
The revelation that lots of people would borrow this kind of money to order a mandolin floored me.
Call me naive I suppose but I didn't realize that this was so rampant and it sort of stunned me for a while. I hadn't ever thought that this was happening to this degree.
Maybe I am not with the times but I remember thinking that I would never borrow money to buy a mandolin when you can get a relatively decent one for relatively little money if your financial situation so dictated.
To me a $3500 mandolin is a luxury item. I have some that I purchased over the years but I wouldn't if I had to borrow the money.
The original topic here was about percentage of income,,,, to me I would never even consider that as part of the equation.
I don't know what my mandolins cost compared to my income and am not even going to give it an iota of thought. They were all bought and paid for according to my means and ability to pay cash at that time or I would not now have them.
This whole notion of percentage of income reeks of the old marketting ploy that the jewelry industry foisted upon the public about the pecentage of your income that you should spend on a wedding ring.
Utter nonsense! Designed to get people to spend borrowed money.
I know I am ranting a bit here but to me this whole notion is annoying,,,
Get yourself the mandolin that you can afford to pay cash for and stop right there.

[Jim]

I've one that cost me about and hour & 15 min , one that cost me about 6 hours and one that cost me 4 hours my most expensive would have cost me almost 2 days pay but it was a gift from my live in girl friend and it was more like 5 days pay for her. I'll keep her and the Mandolin. Though I like the most expensive one the most ( it sound great and was a gift from a loved one). I use them all and would be okay with any one of them.

[Hubert Angaiak]

The haves and have-nots. Judge people by the mandolin she or she is playing. Befriend a player by the quality and price of their mandolin. So the "music" festival becomes a showcase to show who is the most well off by the mandolin they have. Which mandolin will denote a street or homeless person and will the Loar owners or high priced mandolins live in the mansion?

[JeffD]

Apparently a large percentage of new custom mandolin orders are placed on credit cards.
Borrowed money.
The revelation that lots of people would borrow this kind of money to order a mandolin floored me.
Call me naive I suppose but I didn't realize that this was so rampant and it sort of stunned me for a while. I hadn't ever thought that this was happening to this degree.

I know what you mean, but I would be carefull to reach too far in finding meaning here. Do more folks buy mandolins on credit than other things they buy on credit. Some folks are just addicted to credit. I don't know if its a mandolin thing, or a music instrument thing, as much as its just a general social phenomenon fairly common these days.

[Jim Kirkland]

In the grande scheme of things what I have invested in mandolins and guitars just isn't that much money. There are plenty of people making less money than I do riding around on a $25k Harley or spending a couple hundred every weekend at the golf course. It's all about priorities.....

I am one of those harley guys. Don't golf, too busy playing music and ridin the harley. I can say that I didn't do the harley until I was 59 yrs old. Had some type of string instrument since I was 7 yrs old. I made sure the mando would fit into hard saddle bag before the harley was purchased. It is sorta neat to ride the harley to a playing engagement. The vibration wakes the mando up, and helps with the tremlo.
All joking aside. It is a personal thing. The family always came first thru the yrs. Wouldn't trade it for the world. If I had of know that I would be the caretaker of a 6 yr old, while my daughter goes to Iraq for 18 mo, the harley would still be on hold. I have a desire for a really nice mando, but don't need it. I don't have expensive instruments, but I have a lot of them, and they are mine.

[Mike Bunting]

The revelation that lots of people would borrow this kind of money to order a mandolin floored me.
Call me naive I suppose but I didn't realize that this was so rampant and it sort of stunned me for a while. I hadn't ever thought that this was happening to this degree.

I'm surprised that you're surprised! Don't narrow it down to mandolins, have you noticed the state of the economy today? You don't think it mght have something to do with people spending more money that they have?