Collector's Items

[chordbanger]

I recently got an instrument that may be a collector's item. It is a guitar, probably 50-60 years old, in mint condition, tag still on it. It was given to me by a friend. He told me it might be a collector's item. I need to know if I should continue to play it, or leave it in the case. If you have an instrument that is a collector's item, what should you do with it?

[Jim Garber]

Instruments are meant to be played. if it is so valuable that you are afraid to play it it is not an instrument -- it is a burden and you should sell it.

Why not find out what you have and figure out what to do, then. Considering there are oplayers who play some Loars worth $100,000-200,000 or Strads worth more, i am not quite sure what the question is.

[MikeEdgerton]

I'm with Jim but then again, it's always a little easier to determine what it is you have if you post a picture or at least give some brand and model information.

[JEStanek]

Three may be a crowd but I also have the same sentiments as Jim and Mike. Post a photo or if you're very curious consider having George Gruhn do an estimate on the value. It may be a sentimental collectible or it may be a real collectible. I believe it should be played... or donated to a museum (nice tax break).

Jamie

[chordbanger]

It would not bug me so much to play it, but the price tag is still on it, and there is not one scratch on it. Should I keep it looking brand new, or should I play it? It is a vintage instrument, collector's item, not worth thousands, but it is worth a few hundred dollars anyway. Not interested in having it appraised, donated, or any of that. I just feel uncomfortable playing something that old that has been kept immaculate for so many years. I put it in the case, until I decide what to do with it.

[JeffD]

You have to decide are you an owner/user, a collector, or a dealer.

You can't be all three. I own and play all my instruments, and have no interest in their value as collectables and have no intention of selling them. Same with my bamboo fly rods, which I understand may be worth some money. I use my stuff.

Some folks are collectors, and some are (or try to be) savvy investors / dealers, hoping to sell the instrument for a profit down the line.

I agree with others here, either play it and enjoy it, or sell it.

[allenhopkins]

"Worth a few hundred dollars" ≠ "collector's item." You have a decent, unplayed instrument. Unlikely a vintage collector would be after it if it's not anything special. Hey, they were made to be played; someone's got to put the first scratch on the pickguard, if it's ever going to make the music it was designed to make.

[Nate]

What, exactly, is this guitar?

[Rick Schmidlin]

I would play it, I had a 63 Hummingbird in that condition one and loved it to death.

[Paul Hostetter]

If you have an instrument that is a collector's item, what should you do with it?
Take it to a reputable appraiser and find out what it is and if it's worth anything.

Until we know precisely what it is, this is a pointless conversation. If it's dead mint '51 Telecaster (Broadcaster) with the tags still on, it would be insane to do anything but sell it to a collector and go buy 4-500 other Teles (or other instruments) with no tags with the proceeds. If it's a Harmony Sovereign, well, there's not a big collector's market for them.

In the world of collecting, condition is everything, and the tags are important lagniappe.

Either say what it is so someone here can make an intelligent remark, or take it to someone who really knows (Gruhn, Werbin, Mandolin Brothers, for starters), and see what they say.

Not all instruments have to be played. Just because you can doesn't mean you should. Many are much better off in collections and behind glass. They last a lot longer that way and their value to future generations is preserved.

From the Smithsonian:

http://invention.smithsonian.org/centerpieces/electricguitar/images/03-01_full.jpg

[Tobin]

You have to decide are you an owner/user, a collector, or a dealer.

You can't be all three. I own and play all my instruments, and have no interest in their value as collectables and have no intention of selling them. Same with my bamboo fly rods, which I understand may be worth some money. I use my stuff.

Some folks are collectors, and some are (or try to be) savvy investors / dealers, hoping to sell the instrument for a profit down the line.

I agree with others here, either play it and enjoy it, or sell it.

I don't mean to be contrary, but why can't he be all three?

I run across this subject a lot in firearms circles. People claim you can't be a shooter, collector, and dealer at the same time. Well, I'm an avid shooter of anything that goes 'bang', as well as a licensed collector of historical firearms. And for the life of me I can't see why it's any different for musical instruments.

Each instrument should stand on its own merit. If it's an older instrument with no flaws or wear and he has others that he does already play, there ain't nothing wrong with simply preserving this one for posterity. Just because it isn't worth tens of thousands of dollars doesn't mean it isn't collectible as a piece of history or a reminder of days gone by. Once it has been scratched or worn in, it will never be pristine and original again. There's something to be said for collecting things in their original state for no other reason than just to preserve them as a reminder of their moment in time.

Of course, it will be a personal decision on his part, as it should be. Personally, being a sentimental kind of guy, I'd probably stash it away and let it continue to be pristine as long as I had other comparable instruments to play. *shrug* Just my 2 cents; it's worth exactly what you paid for it!

[JEStanek]

She certainly can be both but I think collectible and valuable are often used synonymously and in this instance (worth a few hundred) that may not be the case. To keep it pristine but in the case begs the question why have it? It's not on display in your home and you're not using it. What is the joy or use it provides you? A future monetary return? The music it can make? The joy it could give to someone else?

You can certainly save the tag and all of the original stuff that came with it and give it some use while maintaining much of it's value. Could you tell us how or why it is collectible? We might be wrong in the advice we're offering as we have little information to go on.

Jamie

[Paul Hostetter]

...why can't he be all three?
Any person in a genuine position to sell or buy a dead mint with tags instrument will tell you exactly why: any sign whatsoever of wear devalues the instrument tremendously. As I already mentioned, condition is everything, and those little tags mean a lot to certain collectors. In a choice collector's guitar, it would mean the difference between $4500 (slight signs of wear) and $45,000. If you play it, it's not dead mint anymore. The degree of perfection that translates to dollar value is really tied to tiny details when you get to the top of the market.

One of my clients has a '63 Strat (sunburst, rosewood board) that would be worth $15K more if he hadn't had someone put in a tiny mixing switch, which was fashionable back then. It would be worth another $70-80K more if it was mint with tags. As it is, it's well worn but awfully nice, if you fancy old Strats, and still worth a pile.

I'm not promoting or excusing it, but simply noting how the collector's market works. And as I also already mentioned, there are dealers and brokers who will say the same, and that's who I recommend see this mystery instrument before any determination is made.

Of course, in today's bizarre economy, all bets may well be off for awhile. :whistling:

[mandozilla]

Yo! Chordbanger! What exactly is it ? :confused:

:mandosmiley:

[jeff mercer]

Chordbanger,
As Jamie said, it's difficult to give you ANY advice when we know little or nothing about the guitar in question :confused:

There are many very knowledgable people on the Cafe who could tell you in 2 seconds flat what your guitar is, what it's worth & probably when it was made,too..so..what is it :) ?

As to what Tobin wrote, yeah, I agree..
I actively COLLECT vintage Hawaiian-made koa ukuleles, I also PLAY professionally, yet many of my "working" instruments would definately be considered collecters items ( '66 Tele, '65 Epi Casino, '59 J-50, '40 Ricky Lap Steel etc. ), & I've been- privately- BUYING/SELLING/SWAPPING old instruments as far back as I remember..and my hobby, if I could call it that, is researching vintage string instruments..

So I guess I'm a Collector/Player/Dealer and..er..Vintage nerd :) !

[JeffD]

Any person in a genuine position to sell or buy a dead mint with tags instrument will tell you exactly why: any sign whatsoever of wear devalues the instrument tremendously.

I have a friend who can't decide if he is a gun collector, a shooting enthusiast, or a investor / dealer.

He often buys two examples of a particular hand gun, one to shoot and the other to never even remove from the its original packing.

I grew up with several comic book fans who did the same thing.

Another friend of mine lives in a large beautiful house full of gorgeous antique furniture. Well actually, he lives in the kitchen of the house, which is done in reasonably priced nothing special furniture. He is fond of telling me how savvy an investor he is, that all his antiques are worth so much more than he paid. But nothing ever gets sold. Ever. I told him once that the several retirement facilities are looking forward to the "profits" he has made.

If I came across a guitar or mandolin that was a very rare example of a real special instrument, I would sell it to a museum, and with the proceeds have a replica made that I can enjoy.

If it was not that special, I would play the potatoes out of it. OK I might not take it camping, but I wouldn't let any dust accumulate on the case either.

[mandozilla]

If I could afford to own a Lloyd Loar, I would. And, I play the H**L out of it and I would derive great pleasure in doing so. :grin:

If I finally got a rarified mandolin like that and locked it up in a safe or what have you, the next day I would probably get run over by a bus and then my wife and kids would enjoy the money derived from it's sale but I would still be dead! :))

Life is for living...you may not be here tomorrow. I wouldn't own it if I couldn't play it. Besides, even if it gathered a handful of little dings and what not from playing it, I'll bet, being an original Lloyd Loar, it would greatly appreciate in value anyhow. ;)

Food for thought. :confused:

:mandosmiley:

[JEStanek]

All of my advice is certainly worth what it cost you and I will humbly defer to Paul Hostetters knowledge of the collectors market. He brings up some very valid points. If I were a great investor, I probably wouldn't be posting here so much! :grin:

Jamie

[JeffD]

If I could afford to own a Lloyd Loar, I would. And, I play the H**L out of it and I would derive great pleasure in doing so.

A slight diversion from the main topic, but still relevant.

Were I to find a 1925 Gibson Loar signed F5 under my bed or in the attic (don't think I haven't checked,) I would sell it.

With the proceeds I would sign contracts with several high end luthiers for five (5) $20,000 mandolins, buy a medium sized fifth wheel RV and drive around country going to festivals, living off the money left over for a couple of years.

But that's me.

:mandosmiley:~o)

[MikeEdgerton]

If I found one I'd sell it and just keep on playing mandolin professionally till the money run out.

[jeff mercer]

An oldie but a goodie, Mike..

[MikeEdgerton]

An oldie but a goodie, Mike..

You can't expect "A" material all the time, some have to be recycled. :)

[Timbofood]

Nothing wrong with the "Re-use " of previously used material, take my wife...Please!
Sorry, but it was just sitting there waiting to be picked up.
Speaking of picking up, OP just needs to decide where in the "arsenal " of instruments this belongs for her. But a picture or some information might help the rest of us understand what she may be going through. I agree "they should be played" but, if the use would cause an owner distress, then (were it mine) I think I would have to decide if it was (no matter how collectable) to be ensconced as an Objet d'Art or sold, so others would get some enjoyment out of it too.
I have a buddy that has been hoarding scores of those old black topped Harmony dreadnaughts! I believe he has almost all of them...that is a collector, I don't know how he'd ever be able to sell them for any price. People will do the strangest things!

[Tobin]

She
Oops, my apologies.

[GTG]

(Looks like the OP has left the building....she finally did figure out that the ol' pre-war OM-45 is worth more than 'several hundred' dollars)

[8ch(pl)]

John Paris Lee lived in my hometown. In 1878 he patened a rifle with the first Box Magazine. Almost all firearms today use this feature. This rifle became the prototype for the Lee Metford, Lee Enfield and the Lee Winchester (used by US Navy and USMC at the time of the Spanish American War).

The original Rifle stayed in the Lee family in the town until recent times, it now resides in the Municipal Museum. It is the only one exant. What is it worth? Is it where it should be. Whichever family member who wound up with it did a pretty generous thing it giving it to a small town museum in the place where it was test fired. There is a historic placque beside the Lee Boatyard site, where the Lees had their home in the 1960's. I don't know if there is a Lee on the property now.

[David Newton]

She went back for more bait.

[GTG]

I'm guessing (based on not much....) an immaculate '50s Kay.

[lmartnla]

how cruel to read all of this and still not know what we're talking about. Curiosity is killing me.

[Jim MacDaniel]

...I need to know if I should continue to play it, or leave it in the case. If you have an instrument that is a collector's item, what should you do with it?

Since you don't plan on selling it, my vote is to play it -- especially if the alternative is keeping it in its case and stowed away in a closet somewhere.

[mandochic]

Dear Chordbanger:

I'll have to disagree with the rest. It is wise of you to want to know the value of your mando, especially if you don't know much about its history. If it is only 50 to 60 years old, it would only be a collectible, though. If you have a serial number and know the maker, you might be able to determine the exact age of your mando, and get a better idea of its value. An appraiser may be able to do this for you from several photos for a small fee. Check with :mandosmiley::grin:GRUHN Guitars. You might even be able to find a similar model to yours online from vendor photos of mandos for sale, to determine the market value.

If you have a cherry Gibson or Martin, et. al., it may be worth protecting, whether or not you decide to play it.

[Adam Tracksler]

the most expensive instrument s the one you dont play.

[chordbanger]

I appreciate all the advice. The guitar is a Silvertone Spanish guitar, with nylon strings, real pretty guitar, in the original case, and in perfect condition. Put new strings on it, since the strings on it were the original ones. I own many guitars, but this one is different. It is light, and has a gorgeous sound. Action on it is perfect. I am going to play it at a classical guitar recital in a few months. It is not be worth a lot of money, but it has become my favorite guitar, due to the sound, action, it's vintage, and real pretty. I just bought a classical guitar from Brazil, and paid a lot of money for it, but it cannot compare in sound to this Silvertone guitar.

[MikeEdgerton]

Are there any numbers stamped inside that Silvertone guitar?

[David Newton]

Looks like Dan P. hit the nail...

Enjoy your beauty chordbanger...

[DryBones]

something like this?

http://http://www.rubylane.com/shops/calamityjanes/item/INSTR-324

[chordbanger]

something like this?

http://http://www.rubylane.com/shops/calamityjanes/item/INSTR-324
Almost identical to that one. Mine has some red trim around the sound hole, and color is lighter, like maple. Real pretty. I will get the number off the inside of it, and see if I could find out what year it was made. I love playing it. The back of it looks just like the guitar shown.

[MikeEdgerton]

Almost identical to that one. Mine has some red trim around the sound hole, and color is lighter, like maple. Real pretty. I will get the number off the inside of it, and see if I could find out what year it was made. I love playing it. The back of it looks just like the guitar shown.

Please see if there are numbers stamped inside, they may be faint and there may be two sets. One may be in a circle or square.

[MikeEdgerton]

Here's (http://www.rubylane.com/shops/calamityjanes/iteml/INSTR-324#pic1) a link that works. You probably have two sets of numbers. One should be XXXXXHXXXXX with more or less digits on either side. The other should be a shorter number with an W, S, or F in the number like F68 or W64.

[DryBones]

thanks Mike. Didn't even realize I doubled up on the http's! :)) :redface:

[MikeEdgerton]

It happens quite often Jason.

[mandozilla]

It is not be worth a lot of money, but it has become my favorite guitar, due to the sound, action, it's vintage, and real pretty.

That's all that really matters chordbanger...play the heck out of it and enjoy! :grin:

:mandosmiley:

[chordbanger]

Are there any numbers stamped inside that Silvertone guitar?

4972S1235 and I am not sure about the other stamp, but it looks like it might be P-68 ? with Made in USA under it but it is too faint for me to see it. The 8 might be a B, and there is another number after it, but I don't know what it is, it almost looks like a 4.

[MikeEdgerton]

The P is most likely an F and if it is your guitar was made in the fall of 1968 by Harmony of Chicago. The S in the middle of the model number indicates it was made for Sears.

[chordbanger]

The P is most likely an F and if it is your guitar was made in the fall of 1968 by Harmony of Chicago. The S in the middle of the model number indicates it was made for Sears.

I am happy to find out this information about the guitar. I thought the guitar was older, possibly made around 1960, but with your help, I believe you are right, the guitar was made in 1968, and sold for around 15.00 at Sears. You have educated me greatly in learning what to look for in order to identify the year an instrument was made. In order for a Silvertone to be a collectors item, I think it has to be made before 1960 according to some research I have done. Harmony is the maker of my Silvertone guitar. Interesting!
Thanks so much for all your help.