End pin

[Larry Simonson]

What is the current favorite: traditional ebony tapered peg, button and screw, or combined tailpiece-end pin ?

[kestrel]

Can't speak on what the "current favorite" is, but I don't use tapered end pins at all. I turn my own buttons, and mount them on a screw post. There's just something about anything that can fall apart with temperature/humidity changes, that doesn't make any sense to me.

Gene

[Steevarino]

You know, Gene is probably right, but I use tapered violin-style end pins on my flat mandolins. I had not intended on going this way, but for neck joining reasons, I have to have a hole that is slightly over 1/4" dia. at the end pin area. If not for this, I would have gone with the simpler screw-on type of end pin.

[woodwizard]

I've always stuck with the traditional endpin. Yup ... they come out sometimes but very rarely. Out of all the mando's I've had in over 30 years and they've all had the taperered pin ... I can only remember maybe about 3 times that the pin has slipped out. I just licked around it and stuck it back in there. Guess you have to be a little more careful with this type. Never take anything for granted. I don't trust the snaps on a case that much either having the habit using an extra finger holding it shut when I'm carrying it around.

[Michael Lewis]

I really like the end pin that Weber uses. It is rubber with a metal insert that expands to tighten in the hole. It will never come loose by mistake yet is easily removable.

The most troubling problem with the tapered pin is it is a wedge, and if struck, it can cause severe damage to the area of the tail block. Granted, it is not likely to happen but I have seen the damage more than once. Split tail block and either split rim, or top and back, depending on the grain orientation of the tail block. Think, an ounce of prevention!

[Ivan Kelsall]

The only problem with the Weber end pin Michael,is that it's only short ie.it doesn't stick out far enough to take a more substantial strap. My John Brown 'wide' strap is 3/16" thick & it just won't fit the Weber. You can screw the end pin out,but as you know,there's a turned 'collar' on it which again prevents a thicker strap from being use,but it is a good way of fitting an end pin. The tapered ebony end pin on my Lebeda slipped out a few times,i just used a very tiny amount of nail varnish to hold it in,a sharp twist will be enough to break the joint if i ever need to remove it,
Saska

[Fretbear]

Just one of those two drawbacks, coming loose/falling out at an inopportune time or acting like a splitting wedge (!) is enough to make me not trust them. If you already have a tapered endpin hole, you can bypass the entire problem by just running some rawhide laces through it and knotting them off through an F-hole.
Safe, secure and adjustable.

[Jim Rowland]

Years ago, when I built a number of flat tops for give away, I would fish a tuner bushing out of the "thing box",a small washer and a nice domed wood screw to function as a strap button. Cheep.
Jim

[mandozilla]

I like violin style, ebony, tapered, with a nice pearl dot...I'm old fashioned.:grin:

As far as falling out is concerned, just use a Monkey Strap and then it don't matter if it falls out. :))

:mandosmiley:

[DougC]

As a violin repair guy, I've often wondered why a violin end pin, designed to hold the tension of a fiddle's tail piece and strings, would be put on a heavier instrument like a mandolin. I have had my end pin come out and my Mandolin go flying around the room attached to the other end of the strap. Yikes!
I love the idea of wood and traditional 'look'. But why not have a metal end pin cast into the tailpiece?

[Larry Simonson]

Thanks for everyone's thoughts on this. I believe after reading them all that the tapered end pin is not the way to go. I think I like the idea of knotted rawhide laces best, however I am used to a detachable strap and don't like a button on the neck heel or metal parts in a strap.

[8ch(pl)]

Take a look at the Weber Tail pin. It uses a straight hole. You tighten a screw to cause the rubber grommet to bind to the sides of the hole. I like mine.

[mandroid]

1/4" Jack-buttons are solidly affixed. and even if just playing acoustic , on stage,
the stomp tuner is already on the floor, so won't fall off the headstock and then hit the floor ..

any one try a DIY version of Weber's end button ? substitute an appropriate-sized tapered cork
[or rubber stopper] with a hole down the middle, a machine screw and nut .. for the wood screw ,
make so the nut wont rotate,(inside)
so as you tighten the nut inside with the screwdriver outside
and then the compressed cork will expand.

yes, bicycle fans, a wedge can do a similar job as it does in your handlebars..

[mandozilla]

substitute an appropriate-sized tapered cork
[or rubber stopper] with a hole down the middle, a machine screw and nut .. for the wood screw ,
make so the nut wont rotate,(inside)
so as you tighten the nut inside with the screwdriver outside
and then the compressed cork will expand.

Yeah, kind of like the old Thermos bottle plug thingamujigs. Now there's an idea that might be worth something.:cool:

:mandosmiley:

[man dough nollij]

How 'bout a 1/4" hole and a toggle bolt? There's no way that sucker would ever come out! http://z.about.com/d/homerepair/1/5/7/4/-/-/toggle_molly.jpg

[MikeEdgerton]

Weber's "buttons" as I recall are put together with some standard parts that readily available. I'll see if I can dig out the pictures.

[Ivan Kelsall]

Here's a pic.of the Weber end-pin & it's associated bushing/grommet. The screwed 'pin' will only go in as far as the 'collar', & it's the narrow groove between the knurled 'pin' & the 'collar' that prevents a thick (ish) strap being used,even if you screw the pin out to give you extra pin length,
Saska

[Dale Ludewig]

This may be a silly question, and I could just make a phone call, but where does one buy the Weber end pin? Go straight to Weber or is it available through a regular supplier? Thanks.

[Steevarino]

Hey Dale,

I'd imagine you can buy them direct from Weber. Sometime back, I took a close look at one, and as I recall, I found pretty much everything you would need to make them at McMaster Carr. Of course, you would only go this way if you wanted to make a bunch of them. I guess I either decided not to do it, or just forgot about it, or something. Can't remember....

[Dave Cohen]

I put one of those Weber endpins in a mandolin a while back for a customer who wanted to micromanage the building of his instrument. I didn't like it. I thought that it looked and felt cheezy. I like the look and feel of ebony endpins, and I haven't had much trouble with them. Occasionally they do come loose, but they are easily replaced. And if the looseness is persistent, it is easy to tighten them up. Put some CA either on the pin or in the hole and let it dry thoroughly before any attempt at assembly. When the CA is thoroughly dry, scratch most of it off with some of the fine (gray) scotchbrite. The pin will fit snugly again.

The cracking problem could be solved by using a laminated endblock. That would also allow a mandolin to be made with an access hatch in the endblock. Good for electronics, repairs, etc. Hmmmm.......

http://www.Cohenmando.com

[mandroid]

The Weber piece, the external screw looks like a inspection cover plate thumb screw.

a bit of cleverness could make a machine screw core inside a wooden end button ,
some T to the head to have it rotate with the outside..

and the adding of a MOP dot over the head, when completed, will make it less hardware store looking.

[Dale Ludewig]

Thanks for the replies. Steve and Dave, I kind of wondered about the same issues, and like Steve, kind of forgot about it. I usually use the standard tapered endpin or just a strap button ground to the right diameter. Personally, I've never had a problem with a tapered end pin coming out, at least that I can think of. I check them constantly on my own instruments. Maybe if nothing is broken....

[Gail Hester]

I make my endpins matching the reamer with a peg shaper for a good fit and they seem to work very well and maintain a vintage look.

[Michael Cameron]

I'm all for "vintage" looks on some mandolins;but,I have the Weber,metal,expanding, end-pins on a Kimble A5,Red Diamond F,and Gibson Monroe. Tapered ebony on the Derrington,'course. Wouldn't put one on a Loar.

Yep. I've had tapered ebony pins slip out. Have to twist them once in a while to feel safe about playing standing up. They look great.

Saska,you must REALLY like that strap!:))

[Ivan Kelsall]

Michael - The strap i'm refering to,my John Brown 'wide'strap' is unusable on either of my Mandolins,as the end pins are too short.It's strange really,that i bought the strap for my first Lebeda Mandolin & it fitted perfectly.I can only assume that the end pin on that Mandolin protruded quite a bit more that the one on my current Lebeda.Nevertheless i have 2 other beautifully made JB straps which do fit,
Saska:grin:

[kestrel]

As I mentioned in my earlier post, I turn my own end pins. That way I can change the shape or length to suit the situation. I prepared a few Ebony blanks, some time ago, and when I need an end pin, I just stick one in the lathe, turn the configuration I want, drill it for an 8-32 tap. I run a tap in, screw in a screw post, that I get at the local True Value, with a dab of epoxy, then put an MOP dot in the end. Takes about a half-hour, total, and I'm not stuck using whatever happens to be out there.

Gene

[VernBrekke]

We use a 10-32 thumb screw that is polished and plated. It connects to a 10-32 rubber well nut. The well nut can often be found in hardware stores but a thumbscrew with enough thread lenght may be a little harder to find.

The combination works well with our tailpieces because the tailpiece covers the well nut completely, the base of the thumbscrew matches our endpin hole and the tailpiece is recessed to accomodate the well nut flange. The combination may not work as well with other tailpieces.

I hope that this helps,

Vern Brekke
Sound To Earth
Weber Mandolins