Teaching

[Mike Bunting]

For students and teachers out there. What do want, as a student, want or need from your teacher and teachers, what kind of demands do you place on your students? I have a few students and am pondering my methods and goals with students.

[man dough nollij]

I want an immediate, inexpensive and painless infusion of limitless talent and power.

Silly question. :mandosmiley:

[Mike Bunting]

Guess you won't be studying with me! :)
Like the man said, there are no silly questions, just silly answers.

[mandolirius]

It all depends on the student. 15+ years of teaching and the one thing I've learned is that every student is different. The one thing I need from students is a story...what kind of music are they into, what have they listened to, how did they get into music/mandolin. Do they play any other instruments. What type of music do they hope to play and in what sorts of situations/groupings.

Adult students can also help you out by telling you what they know in terms of how they learn. What is their learning style? I always ask what kind of work they do. I often find that if I can use analogies that pertain to their day jobs, the ideas get through faster and more deeply. I also advocate having a menu of practice goals. I don't spend several lessons on one thing, then move on to another. I encourage them to be working on several areas at once.

As for demands I make, they are very few. I recognize that students don't always have as much time to practice between lessons as they had expected or hoped to. Therefore, I ban the word sorry. I don't want students to feel like they are letting me down, boring me or trying my patience. They will put enough pressure on themselves as it is. I usually talk with them about that and make certain they know that the pressure they put on themselves comes from their own goals, it doesn't come from me. For those that don't immediately grasp this, I tell them bluntly that I don't really care if they learn to play mandolin or not. If I can help them learn, I'll do anything in my power. But ultimately, I can't afford to care. That draws me in emotionally and that doesn't help anything. I tell them that I understand their frustration but I don't share it. I'm perfectly content to teach them the same lesson as last week, if that's what it takes. I let them know their "responsibilities" are to themselves, not to me.

There's a lot more I could say, but I'll leave it there. I'm sure others will have different ideas. My teaching style is a bit unorthodox, as I mostly teach improvising. I don't teach tunes unless specifically requested and I don't use written music. I do tab some things out, but not much.

[R. Kane]

If I wasn't a continent away, I'd study with you M'lirious!

I don't want to be taught far beyond my possibility of understanding or ability. I know that as I work at this my abilities do accelerate, but I don't want to spin my wheels. And I have enough trouble spinning my own wheels with broad interests and goals.

I want a teacher to listen to what I say and play, probe my understanding of how theory works, evaluate my tone and technique, and demonstrate new ways to connect the fittings and improve my output. I want a checklist of things to work on as time allows between lessons, and a recording to help me remember (old storage chips being as they are).

And it always helps to be shown tips that can be remembered and drawn upon. My best workshop experience was Joe Walsh showing how the scales and I, IV, V chords lay out when the index finger is on the root note of the tune key almost anywhere on the neck.

[barney 59]

In my very limited flirtations with teaching I found that in order for me to teach something to someone I had to stop and understand what is that I'm actually doing in order to convey it. I'm quite sure that I learned alot more from it than I actually taught.

[mandolirius]

In my very limited flirtations with teaching I found that in order for me to teach something to someone I had to stop and understand what is that I'm actually doing in order to convey it. I'm quite sure that I learned alot more from it than I actually taught.

I'll second that. Teaching has taught me more about my own playing and understanding of music than just about anything else.

[Boy Howdy]

As a student, I think one of the most important things for me is to first learn enough chords so that I can accompany myself on some songs in a few different keys. This, for me, gives me a jump start and keeps things interesting. Then I can start learning scales so that I can begin to play some melodies and improvise leads/breaks. I'm self-teaching right now and this method seems to be working for me. Now if I can just make my fingers work right...

[Jon Hall]

I teach 20 guitar students and 2 mandolin students a week. I spoon feed a little music theory with every lesson. I think it shortens the learning curve for a student to understand what they are playing.

I take a different approach to teaching mandolin than I do guitar. A beginning guitar student has to concentrate on learning 3 or 4 chords before they can even begin to play much rhythm but with the mandolin I begin teaching simple songs using 2 finger chords, single note melodies and basic rhythm. I also begin with a slow tremelo on open strings and a little theory.

[ApK]

I want an immediate, inexpensive and painless infusion of limitless talent and power.

Silly question. :mandosmiley:

Can be arraigned. And inexpensive, heck, won't cost you a thing but one paltry little soul.
http://tbn1.google.com/images?q=tbn:EoERYC7ce11XcM:http://www.istockphoto.com/file_thumbview_approve/5194261/2/istockphoto_5194261-devil-with-guitar.jpg

[John McGann]

From my teaching perspective, by far the most fun students are the self-motivated.

We are all our own teachers in the long run.

[ApK]

John, that reminds of John Houseman's quote as the professor in the Paper Chase: "You will teach yourselves the law, I will shape your minds."

[JeffD]

I want an immediate, inexpensive and painless infusion of limitless talent and power.

Silly question. :mandosmiley:

Yea! And without much practice too.
:))

[Mike Bunting]

From my teaching perspective, by far the most fun students are the self-motivated.
Ain't that the truth, I had one young fellow who didn't say much during the lesson, but every week he came back having learned what I taught the previous week and had applied it to tunes we had worked on and his own rock tunes. Those kinds of students are inspiring.
To add to my original post, I'm constantly searching for ways to likewise inspire others, some of whom barely play between lessons. I prefer to teach music so that the student can branch into whatever style they wish (I seem to teach mostly beginners) and am quite clear as to my methods and expectations from the outset, explaining my bluegrass background. I do use tabs and much that I have gleaned from this list. Thanks to all for that.

[woodwizard]

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Quote; From my teaching perspective, by far the most fun students are the self-motivated.

I couldn't agree more on this statement. Good teachers remind me of playing with good pickers consistently. It will make you a better player.

[mandolirius]

John, that reminds of John Houseman's quote as the professor in the Paper Chase: "You will teach yourselves the law, I will shape your minds."

I hadn't heard that before. It definately hits home, though. I often tell my students that what I'm really teaching them is how to think about the mandolin. I can show them things - chords, scales, patterns, tunes etc. I can demonstrate and offer advice and guidance, but they're really teaching themselves these ideas and techniques. What I'm doing is helping them establish a useful filing system in their brains that will help them access this stuff.

[Kay Kirkpatrick]

I've been a beginner for 41 years and recently decided to get better. My instructor is very similar to Mandolirious. I spend my own time on theory and techniques (from books and web resources) plus a lot of playing. When I see him each week he answers my questions and clarifies points, then we play. Of course he always throws me a bone or two that requires more investigation on my part during the following week. This arrangement is great for a self-motivated adult.

While I could accomplish most of this on my own, I never did. There's something about paying someone to assist me that helps me focus on improvement.

MandolinCafe and the members have definitely been helpful to me during my past several months of lurking.

[Dfyngravity]

With the amount of information in theory, techniques, and songs out there in books and the internet it is certainly possible for an individual to become an excellent player. Both teachers can be invaluable to your playing.

Personally I have take lessons from two different individuals. The first was a classical mandolinist. And the second was Pete Frostic of Old School Freight Train. Obviously they taught two very different styles but the one thing in common that the taught was efficiency. Learning little tricks in fingering that turned wasted motion into effortless efficient motion was tremendous to my playing.

[Mike Bunting]

Good stuff, thanks. Keep it coming.

[OldSausage]

I was thinking the other day that I wish my mandolin teachers had explained to me the importance of practicing technique. One liked to show me the many licks he knew, and another explained a lot about music theory, all of which was very useful. But until I started to learn how to make my fingers obey me, neither the licks nor the theory were a great deal of use, especially in a jam or performance situation. It's understandable, teaching basic technique must be rather dull.

[mandolirius]

One of the best things a student can do to make lessons pay off for them is to be clear about what they want. It helps them and it helps the instructor. If they don"t, it leaves the teacher guessing.

Having said that, if you were my student, I'd ask what you mean by "practising technique" as opposed to "playing technique".

[OldSausage]

Having said that, if you were my student, I'd ask what you mean by "practising technique" as opposed to "playing technique".

I simply meant incorporating the development of "playing technique" into my practice routine, specifically by doing exercises designed to improve playing technique. My teachers certainly gave me what I believed I wanted, and what I asked for, and I had very good experiences with them. But this was something I needed, though at the time I did not know it myself, so could not ask.

[Mike Bunting]

http://taterbugmando.googlegroups.com/web/Technique.tif?gda=XIJOBT8AAABGx_gucb2tc0OlviU9aM6U 5PvWHKZUrQdhd2afE06PG2vlVDNvxdyFLnOEQ3nBjAGccyFKn-rNKC-d1pM_IdV0

[mandodan1960]

I was thinking the other day that I wish my mandolin teachers had explained to me the importance of practicing technique. One liked to show me the many licks he knew, and another explained a lot about music theory, all of which was very useful. But until I started to learn how to make my fingers obey me, neither the licks nor the theory were a great deal of use, especially in a jam or performance situation. It's understandable, teaching basic technique must be rather dull.

I had very similar experiences with my first two instructors neither of which considered the mandolin their primary instrument. I'm very satisfied with my current instructor (six weeks) light on the theory (so far) and very heavy on the technique and mostly right hand technique at this stage. My understanding of "right hand technique" up to this point was pick angle and making sure I was hitting both strings. Well, I now have a very different understanding of the importance for a good loose wrist (not that everybody has to play that way) and being vigilant about pick direction and I'm starting to gain a feel for how to play and give it that "Bluegrass sound" as opposed to a series of eighth notes.
It was a little slow in the beginning getting to know each other and what not but I'm now encouraged that I'll be able to make real progress with this guy. At first my ego was bruised and he wasn't all that impressed that what I had been doing for the past three years and wanted to start from scratch but Hey, thats why I went to him for a honest assessment of what I was doing and how to get better. Its tough to find a good instructor but a good one is worth every dime.

Mandodan1960

[OldSausage]

I now have a very different understanding of the importance for a good loose wrist (not that everybody has to play that way) and being vigilant about pick direction and I'm starting to gain a feel for how to play and give it that "Bluegrass sound" as opposed to a series of eighth notes.

Yes, exactly, after 5 years I had learned to play many tunes and improvise in different styles in any key, but I did not learn how not to sound dreadful.