Hammer on and off on CBOMS?

[Tavy]

Folks: I spent about 30 minutes today trying to get some sound, any sound, out of my waldzither from hammer-ons and pull-offs, and failed miserably. I don't have any problems with these on my mandolin (other than the usual "coordinate your hands issue"!), so I'm wondering if it's the instrument?

I know, I know, never blame your tools etc.. :grin:

But I was wondering what effect a lower string tension, longer scale and a higher action, have on hammer-ons and pull-offs?

Do others have more issues with these on CBOM's than on mandolins as well?

Thanks, John.

[John McGann]

If your setup is 'hard' (lots of string tension, heavy gauges etc.) it will be harder on your fingers, sure...I use slurs (hammers/pulls) all the time, so they are doable. Most CBOMs allow this just as easily as on guitar.

[Steve L]

John, what gauges do you use on your Sobell? I see a lot of posts here from octave players using what I would consider very heavy sets but i don't know how much single note playing they do. Just really curious what you like for yourself.

[Tavy]

John, what gauges do you use on your Sobell? I see a lot of posts here from octave players using what I would consider very heavy sets but i don't know how much single note playing they do. Just really curious what you like for yourself.

Sobell? Ha, I wish! :grin:

It's a vintage Germain waldzither, with not the greatest action (or frets) in the world: http://www.johnmaddock.co.uk/waldzither/html/index.html The task I've set myself for this year is to level the finger board and refret the thing... probably redo the finish as well while I'm at it.

String wise, they're pretty hefty strings due the short scale length and tuning I use (.014 - .054" on the main courses as an octave mandolin, and a bit of ships cable... sorry I mean a .070"... on the single low D). I mainly use it to play melody or arpeggio backup - if you start strumming it gets a bit overpowering - in fact I think someone got arrested for assault last time they started strumming something similar ;) Those gauges were the lightest that gave me a satisfactory attack and "positive" feel to the sound BTW: shouldn't be any greater tension than most OM's though.

Looks like I'll just have to keep trying... thanks, John.

[danb]

You should be able to do pull-offs even with heavy gauges. The feel is not unlike snapping your fingers. Hammer-ons dont work great with very high action, but again even with pretty stiff strings they are doable

[foldedpath]

In my brief experience playing an OM, I think it's easier to do hammer-ons and pull-offs compared to mandolin. The other day I was experimenting with playing Morrison's Jig, which starts with a fiddle roll (at least I think that's a roll?). I was surprised that I could actually sort-of fake it on the OM, with a combination of hammers and pulls. I haven't been able to do it on mandolin. I think it might be a combination of things:

The strings are thicker, and the A strings are roundwound (compared to plain steel on most mandolin string sets), so there's more "meat" there to grab for a pull-off. I have trouble getting a strong pull-off tone on lighter gauge, plain strings. There might also be something about the string tension being a little softer, but it's not by much -- 182 lbs. total tension with J74's on my mandolin, and 178 lbs. with J80's on my 22.5" scale OM.

An OM usually has a lot more sustain than a mandolin. It helps the flow of notes in a hammer-on/pull-off sequence when notes aren't decaying so fast. My OM is is also louder than my mandolin (at least for a hammer-on without a pick), which doesn't hurt.

For some great examples of hammer-on and pull-off technique, get John McGann's book on the OM, and listen to the tracks on the included CD. I don't think I'll ever be able to it with that effortless-seeming sound, but it's something to shoot for.

[Gerry Cassidy]

Sure it can be done. I do it on my Basses. Practice it a few times and it'll come along jus' fine. Great little trick to have in your gig bag.

[John McGann]

John, what gauges do you use on your Sobell? I see a lot of posts here from octave players using what I would consider very heavy sets but i don't know how much single note playing they do. Just really curious what you like for yourself.

.012 .020 .032 .047 which are the gauges Stefan shipped it with in 2000. Very happy with the setup and haven't had to change anything, not even a neck tweak, in 9 years. Really fantastic and perfect for me. My favorite CBOM on earth (that I've tried, anyway).

Some of my OM opinions etc. here. (http://www.johnmcgann.com/om.html)

The waldzither setup sounds pretty rugged to me, and so the difficulty in getting slurs going is understandable. I've always liked instruments with bigger/rounder frets and radiused fingerboards for the way that I play; the old vintage style frets just feel wrong for my way of playing.

[Steve L]

Thanks Mr McGann.

Tavy, I didn't notice your name was John as well or I would have quoted John M's post to avoid confusion. Thanks for the info on your Waldzither gauges though...i like to know what other players use. I use the standard GHS set on my Flatiron 23" scale.