Keeping Time

[chordbanger]

I am having trouble keeping time. I read sheet music, and those dotted quarter notes, followed by eighth notes, are the ones I am having trouble with lately. I am getting it, but it is taking hours of practice. Anyone else have trouble with timing?

[John Flynn]

I'm struggling with the same thing. I started a thread on it while ago and got some good advice. It is linked below.

http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/showthread.php?t=46951&highlight=values

I followed up on the advice I got and so far, the most promising thing I've come across is the book "Sight-Read Any Rhythm Instantly" by Mark Phillips, which is distributed by Hal Leonard. Phillips has a non-standard approach to teaching this subject. It is kind of the opposite of the way it is usually taught. In his preface, he says traditionally, students are taught note values (durations) and then they have to fit those values into each measure. He says this works for simple rhythms, but a lot of students have trouble with complex rhythms.

He does the opposite. He teaches students to think in terms of dividing each measure into beats, such a four beats for 4/4 time, and then learning to see what notes need to occur within each beat. So instead of the traditional note counting, like "one-and-a-two, etc." for each beat it is "play, don't play, play twice, etc." For people who know how to do this well, I'm sure Phillips' approach seems like unnecessary semantics. But for those of us who are struggling with this concept, so far it is striking me as a better approach. But I'm still working on it.

This should go without saying, but having a good metronome and learning how to use it well is an absolute essential for working on this, no matter what approach you take.

[chordbanger]

I get frustrated with it, because I should know this stuff by now, but have to keep going over it, and over it. I tap my foot, and also (this sounds strange) click my tongue when playing the dotted quarter note, which gets 3 half beats. I will stop clicking my tongue once I get the beat of those dotted notes.

[Man of Wax]

Try practicing with a metronome. They are cheap and helpful.

[Nate]

Try breaking down the entire tricky passage into the lowest common denominator value note, then use accents (play louder!) rather than actual note durations to keep time. Do this very slowly, making the accents louder every time and the in-between time-keeping notes softer every time, until all you're playing are the correctly timed notes.

For example, if you're playing dotted-quarter > eighth > dotted-quarter > eighth, play this instead:

BANG bing bing > BANG > BANG bing bing > BANG

Then:

BANG bing bing > BANG > BANG bing bing > BANG

Then eventually:

Note silence silence > Note > Note silence silence > Note

It won't help with your phrasing or your fingering at all, but it will help you feel the internal pulse of the rhythm. It can be easier for many beginners to play a constant rhythm with accents to indicate the beginning of new notes, rather than trying to feel the unaccented "invisible" beats in their head while they're playing the correct rhythm. Go crazy slow.

[EggyToast]

Try practicing with a metronome. They are cheap and helpful.

This. And remember, a metronome just ticks when you tell it to, essentially.

If you're having trouble playing in time, a metronome set at 80bpm will get you in the right spot. A metronome set at 40, that requires you to keep time around the click, will get you to learn your own internal rhythm. Playing the song at the same tempo, of course, just with half the ticks.

And a metronome set at 20 will really burn your butt if you're not in time ;D

Conversely, doubling the tempo gets you 8th notes.

I mentally do both -- a note lasts for a duration, but that duration is a division of a measure. I usually do a rough sketch of a piece in my head, playing it as it would sound in general, and then do it to a metronome a few times to see how it fits.

[Bertram Henze]

Two cents from my experience:

1 - learning is not a steady growth, it jumps. When there frustratingly seems to be no progress for a long time, that indicates that the next jump is right ahead. Frustration is just another way of looking forward to achievement.

2 - the things I had to put the most effort in are the ones I do best in the end. What came easy will fail just as easy.

Bertram

[Dfyngravity]

Practice is key, and it does take does take a while sometimes to get something like this etched in your head.

If I am struggling with the rhythm of a tune here is what I do.

1. Put down the instrument.
2. Start counting the beat out loud, or tapping your foot.
3. While keeping the beat, clap the rhythm.

My high school music teacher had us do this, and it works very well. Sometime when you are working with a tough rhythm, it becomes even harder when you are trying to learn the melody and the rhythm together. So you simply just take the melody out and work on the rhythm first, once you get that down you can start working on the melody.

[T-Reds]

Metronomes can from inexpensive to expensive. The one my music teacher had was the presesessor of this one http://www.bosscorp.co.jp/products/en/DB-90/
It is a great teaching/learning aid. You can program rhythms, subdivisions etc into it and it will give you the beat at the same time. It's not cheap but it is a great tool.

[chordbanger]

Try breaking down the entire tricky passage into the lowest common denominator value note, then use accents (play louder!) rather than actual note durations to keep time. Do this very slowly, making the accents louder every time and the in-between time-keeping notes softer every time, until all you're playing are the correctly timed notes.

For example, if you're playing dotted-quarter > eighth > dotted-quarter > eighth, play this instead:

BANG bing bing > BANG > BANG bing bing > BANG

Then:

BANG bing bing > BANG > BANG bing bing > BANG


Then eventually:

Note silence silence > Note > Note silence silence > Note

It won't help with your phrasing or your fingering at all, but it will help you feel the internal pulse of the rhythm. It can be easier for many beginners to play a constant rhythm with accents to indicate the beginning of new notes, rather than trying to feel the unaccented "invisible" beats in their head while they're playing the correct rhythm. Go crazy slow.

I am doing this, and it is helping me a great deal, Thanks!!

[John Flynn]

It's personal preference, but I much prefer an acoustic metronome, even though I have a couple of electronic ones. I have a Wittner Taktell Piccolo and I recommend it. I find the beat noises on electronic metronomes annoying after a while, even if they make a sound that's trying to imitate an acoustic metronome. I also like the swinging arm as a visual cue, better than the displays on the electronics. For me, electronic metronomes are OK for short uses, but if I'm going to use a metronome for long practices, I prefer the old-fashioned kind.

[mandozilla]

Metronome, Metronome, metronome, Metronome!. :))

:mandosmiley:

[JeffD]

Hey use the fruit method.

pear pear pear pear apple apple apple apple pineapple pineapple pineapple pineapple watermelon watermelon watermelon watermelon

[chordbanger]

Hey use the fruit method.

pear pear pear pear apple apple apple apple pineapple pineapple pineapple pineapple watermelon watermelon watermelon watermelon

Strawberry, strawberry, strawberry, Mississippi hot dog, Mississippi hot dog.

[chordbanger]

One ta ta, two ta ta. :redface:

[Randi Gormley]

and if those don't work, you might try to listen to the piece being played by someone else who does it right. sometimes it helps if you can hear it instead of trying to count it out in a vacuum.

[sunburst]

While keeping time is a challenge for any musician, and even the best have to practice and count, my ability to read rhythms and play in time have been helped a lot by my past life as a drummer. If you can easily and conveniently take a few drum lessons it can help. I think every musician should play drums at least long enough to learn to play a solid rhythm.

An amusing story:
I was in a Bluegrass jam session (playing banjo) with some guys I'd never met before, and after a few tunes one of them looked at my picking hand and after the tune said something like "this guy is like a metronome!". I said "I used to be a drummer". He said "that doesn't mean anything, most of the drummers I've played with couldn't keep time.".
To be honest, my timing is not that great, I'm not like a metronome, but I do concentrate on timing and try to keep an even rhythm.