Weber Fern

[Shawn Gambrel]

Who has played both standard Weber Fern and Weber Big Sky. Which did you like best. Which one has the louder one. Which one seems to be the best mandolin.

[Kevin Briggs]

Shawn,

These are good questions to ask, because they have a clear answer.

The Fern and the Big Sky are potentially great mandolins, the same way any mandolin by a conscientious builder can potentially be great. The mandolins you are asking about will maintain a level of high quality on a consistent basis. In other words, most people will be satisfied and/or impressed with the Fern or the Big Sky, most of the time. The only definite differences between the two are cosmetic. There is a thinking that the Ferns tend to have a bit more complex tone, but this is hard to measure with facts.

The Fern and Big Sky will typically have equally impressive volume because STE (the Weber company) builds for and almost always gets impressive volume in every mandolin. If there's one thing almost everyone who plays a well setup Weber can say, it's that Webers have great, if not superior, volume.

It is a very good time to buy a Weber because they are working with an excellent batch of tonewoods, so anything you buy from them will be most likely be great. Do no regret buying a Big Sky, it is one of there best models, and will perform well with the best mandolins out there.

As for me, I have a moderately customized Fern. It has a red spruce top, a one-piece back, a custom neck, and a pearl nut (the nut is not a structural customization, but potentially adds some brightness to the open strings). I had a highly customized Bitteroot with the same appointments plus more, but I just lusted after the cosmetics of the Fern and also after a 2008 Weber as opposed to a 2005 Weber (my Bitteroot was a 2005). I almost got a Big Sky instead, with a varnish finish, which would have been about the same price as my custom Fern.

You made a great choice. There is most likely no reason why your Big Sky cannot be your lifetime cadillac instrument.

[Dan Cole]

I have a Weber Big Sky. I've had it since new in 2001. It is a loud and good sounding mandolin. Very well built. When I bought mine the major difference in the 2 mandolins was tone bar (Fern) versus X-Bracing (Big Sky) and the inlay was dots and fern (Fern), or diamonds and Weber knot (Big Sky).
Other than that they were identical.

[J.Albert]

Hello Shawn,

I believe that if you do some further investigating, you'll find that the Fern and Big Sky models really "aren't that far apart", model-wise.

The Fern seems to be Weber's answer to the Gibson Fern - that is, a high-end mandolin that pays respects to the traditional appointments of the old Ferns, binding-wise, color-wise.

The Big Sky is more Weber's "own". Notice though that while the Fern is "top bound", the Big Sky is a "side-bound" instrument, by design. Whether one binding style or the other is more appealing to you, only you can answer. Also, the Big Sky has a different finish concept, as well as coloration, that more reflects Weber's own style (again, the Fern tips its hat towards "tradition").

The Ferns seem to be getting Red Spruce tops as standard these days, while the new version of the Big Sky comes with a Cedar top. When you get down to it, I think this is the significant difference between the two models.

I'd suggest you spend some time browsing the net trying to find sites that have posted not only pics of the various Big Skys and Ferns available right now, but sound clips as well.

Dennis Vance' "mandolinstore.com" is one.
Greg Boyd's shop is another: "gregboyd.com".
You might also keep an eye on Danny Clark's site, "mandodan.com". Now and then he might have a Weber.
There may be a few sites that include sound clips as well. Does anyone reading know of them?

With the advent of low-cost good-quality handheld recording devices such as the ZOOM H2 (amongst others), this can be a good way to compare sounds. Personally, I think nearly all online acoustic shops worth their salt should start posting sound samples, or at least providing them via email on request - but's that's just my opinon.

- John

[Kevin Briggs]

Those are some good points, John. The Big Sky is definitely not as traditional looking as the Fern, and it reflects a Sound to Earth specific color-scheme. The real point here is that the cosmetics are what truly set the two models apart, except for the top woods.

The Ferns come standard with a sitka spruce top. Red spruce is a customization and it adds something like $150 to the price. The cedar top on the Big Sky models is attractive because STE has had great success using cedar as a top wood. STE is also responsible for the sudden widespread awareness of how good cedar can be as a mandolin top. Luthiers always have always known it, but Joe Shmoe's like me didn't until two years ago when STE started using them so expertly. Some say the best Webers are those with a cedar top. Naturally, for obvious reasons, I say the best Webers have a red spruce top.

Either way, once again, you should be happy with your purchase. Have no regrets. You did not buy an inferior mandolin. The Big Sky is top of the line. You'll see.

[Dan Cole]

I actually bought mine in 2002, not 2001 like I said earlier.

I'm almost certain that my Big Sky the top is Spruce. I believe it was spruce on both the Big Sky and Fern back then. Unfortunately, the brochure doesn't say and the online specs are now different. I'll call over to STE on Monday and confirm. Now that my curiousity is up!

I'll post a picture of my Big Sky tomorrow. I did add a Cumberland Acoustic bridge since I liked it better than the original Brekke that came on it. I also added a pickguard.

Cheers,

Dan

[Rob Powell]

Shawn,

I think Kevin, Dan and John would agree with me that it's very dependent on the individual instrument. Like I told you, I have played a Fern with a cedar top and a Big Sky with a cedar top, both from 2006. I liked the Big Sky better. But as I also told you, I liked my Yellowstone better than either one of them. Before I bought the 2008 Yellowstone, I asked Rick B. some questions about that particular Yellowstone. One of the things he told me was that the sitka top on mine is really old wood. He also mentioned what a hoss it was.

So what I told you about the Big Sky being louder in the beginning but over time the Fern would drown it out was a generic statement regarding the fact that the current batch of Ferns get this old sitka as a standard and the current batch of Big Skys get the cedar as standard.

It's generally accepted that cedar starts out more open and changes less over time than sitka. I can say from first hand experience with this old wood that it's much louder than the cedar ones I've played. Loud isn't everything though :cool:

All that said, it really depends on the individual instrument. I've played another 2008 Yellowstone that was built to the same specs and mine kicks its butt. That's not just my opinion, it's also the opinion of the dealer who has the Fern, the Big Sky and the other Yellowstone. I went in there one day looking to upgrade and when I was leaving he asked me if I found what I was looking for and I said, yeah, it's home in the case. He said he knew I was going to be disappointed because mine sounded so much better than anything he had in stock.

Now, I'm not telling that story to talk about how great my Yellowstone is, in fact, I think Kevin's Fern sounds better and Sierra Hull's Fern sounds better than both of them (no offense Kevin ;) )

As I also told you, I almost bought a custom Bitterroot they had because it sounded so good. What I can tell you from my experience is that I've never played a bad Weber, they all sounded great and they all have enough volume to carry themselves well in a jam.

Every instrument is a little bit different and some sound better than others to me. There are those who might not like the sound of my Yellowstone as much as another instrument but no one would disagree when I say it's really fine mandolin.

If I were you, I'd concern myself less with the cosmetics and get a varnished, distressed Big Sky instead of a custom inlay and one piece quilted maple back (although, I have to say that quilted maple looks REALLY nice).

Both the distressing and varnish have what I believe to be a positive effect on the tone. Your mileage may vary.

In any case, best of luck to you with your new Weber whatever it turns out to be. Don't stress over it, just enjoy it!

[Dan Cole]

Here's my Big Sky. It's nothing fancy, been well played and distressed in the process!

[Ken Olmstead]

Cosmetics and top wood.

The Big Sky also comes standard with tone bars, which I was suprised when I just learned this from the STE website (I thought that old site was going to be updated. They had some announcement around the first of the year. They really need to.) I thought that the Big Sky was still x-braced standard, not that it matters as they will do either for the same charge.

So it really comes down to look and top wood. You will get every bit the instrument with a Big Sky as the Fern. Actually, most of the Yellowstone Fs are made with same level of care and materials as the top line instruments. I like to think there is a little extra something in my Fern but they all have a very similar sound and are at different stages opening up which accounts for the major differences that I have heard. My Yellowstone was a well broke in mandolin that absolutely killed my Fern when it arrived. My wife thought I was nuts and if I had not wanted the look of the Fern, I would still be playing it today. However, I wanted to stand behind a Fern and I knew it would be great someday because it sounded just like the Yellowstone when it was new. I actually miss that Yellowstone now. I guess my point is that Weber is so consistant that you can go pretty low in the line and find great sound and playability. So when you start trying to discern the merits of the Fern F over the Big Sky F, we are really splitting hairs and it is fruitless. You are far better worrying about your top wood to get the color of tone you are looking for.

I personally did not care too much for the tone of the 5 or so different cedar Webers that I played but I am in the clear minority. I would however, spend my funds on the varnish before the other bling. That's just me. I also would not spend a penny on distressing personally but thats for another thread(s). (Sorry Rob :grin: yours is done very nice)

[Ken Olmstead]

Ooooo, nice Big Sky Dan! I love that era of Big Sky!

[Shawn Gambrel]

Cosmetics and top wood.

The Big Sky also comes standard with tone bars, which I was suprised when I just learned this from the STE website (I thought that old site was going to be updated. They had some announcement around the first of the year. They really need to.) I thought that the Big Sky was still x-braced standard, not that it matters as they will do either for the same charge.

So it really comes down to look and top wood. You will get every bit the instrument with a Big Sky as the Fern. Actually, most of the Yellowstone Fs are made with same level of care and materials as the top line instruments. I like to think there is a little extra something in my Fern but they all have a very similar sound and are at different stages opening up which accounts for the major differences that I have heard. My Yellowstone was a well broke in mandolin that absolutely killed my Fern when it arrived. My wife thought I was nuts and if I had not wanted the look of the Fern, I would still be playing it today. However, I wanted to stand behind a Fern and I knew it would be great someday because it sounded just like the Yellowstone when it was new. I actually miss that Yellowstone now. I guess my point is that Weber is so consistant that you can go pretty low in the line and find great sound and playability. So when you start trying to discern the merits of the Fern F over the Big Sky F, we are really splitting hairs and it is fruitless. You are far better worrying about your top wood to get the color of tone you are looking for.

I personally did not care too much for the tone of the 5 or so different cedar Webers that I played but I am in the clear minority. I would however, spend my funds on the varnish before the other bling. That's just me. I also would not spend a penny on distressing personally but thats for another thread(s). (Sorry Rob :grin: yours is done very nice)
Well if yo get a different top on a mandolin would it change the color.

[Ken Olmstead]

I don't think it would affect the color all that much. Call over and talk to Weber and Brett could tell you. If you are going for something particular, I bet Brett is talented enough to compensate with his finishing efforts to get your desired effect.

[Dan Cole]

Thanks Ken. It's a good mandolin. There is a distressed "Classic" Big Sky on on Greg Boyd's web page. I don't think I would pay extra for that either. I would much rather have had a varnish finish had it been available. The lacquer on the neck drove me crazy and it has flaked off in a couple of places. I guess that's called distressing!

The pickguard came from my Ibanez 524. Wanted to keep the link to my old stick.

[Rob Powell]

Ken, I didn't recommend the distressing for the look (although, I confess I do like it) I recommended it because the process is more than just finish and I think what it does to the tone is pretty noticeable. I also agree on the varnish. If were going to do it, I would go with varnish.

Dan, why did you have to point out Greg Boyd's site? They also have an elite that looks fabulous and appears to be pretty nicely priced for an elite. So I hold you personally responsible if I do something rash :grin:

Check out the audio clips of the Old Wood Yellowstone he has. That's pretty much what mine sounds like. Well, it's what mine would sound like if Chad played it ;)

[Dan Cole]

OK here's the scoop:

My older Big Sky has a spruce top, x braced, Weber Star on the peghead and the fingerboard inlay is diamonds or knots without an extension. The Fern of my era was exactly the same except that it had Tone Bars, Fern Peghead inlay, fingeroard dots and a fingerboard extension.

Finish was the same lacquer Sunburst.

Dan

[Rob Powell]

OK here's the scoop:

My older Big Sky has a spruce top, x braced, Weber Star on the peghead and the fingerboard inlay is diamonds or knots without an extension. The Fern of my era was exactly the same except that it had Tone Bars, Fern Peghead inlay, fingeroard dots and a fingerboard extension.

Finish was the same lacquer Sunburst.

Dan

Dan, that makes sense to me.

My memory tells me that back in 2006 a Big Sky differed from a Fern only in X-Bracing, top wood, inlays and finish color. Well, that plus the Ferns were to have a slightly higher grade of tone wood which had less to do with tone and more to do with figure.

I think Weber started using cedar a lot because they got ahold of some really good cedar. I think that's also the reason they're doing more sitka now because they recently got some really fabulous sitka.

[Kevin Briggs]

Dan, that makes sense to me.

My memory tells me that back in 2006 a Big Sky differed from a Fern only in X-Bracing, top wood, inlays and finish color. Well, that plus the Ferns were to have a slightly higher grade of tone wood which had less to do with tone and more to do with figure.

I think Weber started using cedar a lot because they got ahold of some really good cedar. I think that's also the reason they're doing more sitka now because they recently got some really fabulous sitka.

The Fern tonewoods often actually have less figure on them because they are chosen for "tone," not appearance. you can verify this by calling STE and asking whomever answers the phone. I was told this numerous times by various employees at STE, and, believe me, I asked the question more than once to ensure verficiation. My response was, "Good, because I could care less about the figure." I only care about the tone.

In addition, STE has been and still is using sitka as the standard spruce on their spruce topped mandolins. This topic has been visited before, and it is widely known that sitka spruce is the most readily available spruce on the market. You can upgrade to red spruce and engelman.

[Tony Polecastro]

Shawn,
Feel free to call me here at the shop I can answer any questions you may have in regard to the Fern v.s. Big Sky quesiton, also we can go over the tone you are looking for as well as customizations and try and nail the model down. I know that you have been contemplating this for a bit, so let me know if I can help in any way.

Thanks,

[Kevin Briggs]

Tony is your best bet for information, Shawn.

[Rob Powell]

The Fern tonewoods often actually have less figure on them because they are chosen for "tone," not appearance. you can verify this by calling STE and asking whomever answers the phone. I was told this numerous times by various employees at STE, and, believe me, I asked the question more than once to ensure verficiation. My response was, "Good, because I could care less about the figure." I only care about the tone.

In addition, STE has been and still is using sitka as the standard spruce on their spruce topped mandolins. This topic has been visited before, and it is widely known that sitka spruce is the most readily available spruce on the market. You can upgrade to red spruce and engelman.

Hey Kevin, I didn't mean to imply that they weren't using sitka before. I meant that the current batch of customs like the Elite are using the really old sitka and red spruce where a few years ago Weber was using some pretty nice cedar for a number of high end customs.

I stand corrected on the tone woods.

[Kevin Briggs]

Gotcha, Rob. I hope my tone came off as pleasant! :-)