Question about New Epiphones

[fatt-dad]

Dear NG,

I was at the local music store (I was hoping to play their A9 and F9's, but they had already sold) and noticed an Epiphone F5 style mandolin. Classic good looks - so, I took it off the wall, played a few notes, chords, etc and thought, "not bad". So, here is my question: How come when folks post at the Cafe looking for "lower priced" F-style mandoins I never see reference to the Epiphone lineup? I see folks write about their Michael Kellys, Morgan Monroes and Kentuckys (i.e., other Asian imports), but never Ephiphone.

I also wonder, if Gibson had a few off years in mandolin making (i.e., pre-Flatiron), well, maybe Epiphone had some off years also. But, I would think (or hope) that all of that new-found enthusiam to make the worlds best mandolin would spill over into their Epiphone lineup.

While I am not looking to buy an Epiphone anytime soon, I am curious whether Gibson has a plan to restore the reputation of Epiphone. Then again, maybe I'm living in a cave and you guys feel that the Epiphone line is equal to or better than other Asian imports.

Comments?

fatt-dad

[John Rosett]

epiphone has a line of guitars called "elite", or "elitest" that is higher quality than the regular line, but i don't think that they have a mando in that line. it would be cool if they made a reproduction of an epiphone mando from the 30's or 40's, and not just another F5 knockoff.
john

[fatt-dad]

I guess that with the pedigree and sound of the Gibson line, there may enough Karma to pull off a high-end asian mandolin. The one that I played at the music store was pretty good, but they seem to sell under the price of M-K, et al.

[odeman]

I found an Epiphone F at Musicians Friend a couple of years ago. It was a factory second, selling well below even the regular catalog price. I was amazed that the thing played and sounded better than almost any mandolin I'd ever played ( I've owned 8 and played dozens ). What inspired me to buy it was a business trip to Nashville and, of course, a side trip to Dave Gruhn's Guitar Shop. Sitting there playing a half dozen Gibsons models with Norman Blake was memorable. They were REALLY fun to play, but I wondered whether they were 10 to 15 times MORE fun to play than that MM-50 - I had to say "no, they weren't".
Other than the status and the trade-in value of owning a Gibson, there was very little difference. And I could never afford anything like that anyway, so I'm as happy as a clam, chopping my way around on my Epiphone ( at least it says "Gibson" on the truss rod plate ).

[pickinNgrinnin]

Epiphone does not seem to get a lot of press here. Some years ago, I had a MM50 F style. They have a solid top but the sides and back are laminated. Mine sounded fine but it had a pretty small neck. Of course M.A.S. took over then it was out with the old and in with the new.

[Big Joe]

Late last year Epiphone opened its new factory in China building Epiphone mandolins and banjos. Before that they were built under contract with the same oriental makers that do most of the rest of the products. The instruments we are seeing from this plant are very nice and a great bargain in that price range. The new Epiphone Masterbuilt guitar line is an incredible value also. If you try them with good strings you will like them. Not a Gibson, but not bad.

[fatt-dad]

So, maybe the surprising tone (and real good looks) of the one that I saw at the local music store was the product of your new factory. Maybe the future will show more intrest in the Epiphone lineup for those that are considering Michael Kelly's, Morgan Monroes, etc.

f-d

[sbarnes]

just got my new musicians friend catalogue....seems i get one twice/month.....
they have an epiphone f style in there this month w/a hard shell rectangular case for $499.....
list is like $850 or something in that ballpark.....
looks really good

[jlb]

Can't say for certain, but I'm pretty sure Epiphone doesn't make any all-sold-wood mandolins. MK and Kentucky do. Advantage, MK and Kentucky.

Not sure if this makes much of a diference at this level, but all-solid wood contruction makes a mando look better on paper.

[fatt-dad]

Yeh, I went to the www.epiphone.com and looked at the specs for their mandolins. Looks like the MM-50 is spruce top and mahogany (described as "natural mahogany") sides and back. Whether it is solid or not is unclear.

So, I guess I continue to wonder why Gibson would not spec out an Epiphone mandolin with solid maple sides and back, spruce top, use the construction dimensions (albet not hand carved) as their Gibson lineup and hit the market with an under $1,000.oo mandolin? Lord knows that the MM-50 got the looks and finish, but laminated/mahogany construction is not what I see the market looking for. . . .

f-d

[odeman]

This subject has been hashed out a couple of times here already. I have had an an Epi F-style for a couple of years now. For a SRP of $829 and catalog price of $497, it's certainly in line with all the other Korean built F-models with all solid wood construction. Mine also appears to have a solid back, judging from the matching inside/outside grain and the contours of the scroll. No mention ANYWHERE of that kind of specific information. Maybe Gibson purposely left it out of their literature for some reason. After heavy playing, it "opens up" like a higher quality instrument. As long as it's east to play, has nice tone, looks good and has that regulation "chop" - the bottom line is - who reaaly cares?

[guitardave]

My new MM-50 is solid maple sides and back, and extremely fine grained solid spruce on top. I could not be happier with it. No case was included. Although I have seen them listed for $385 on Ebay, I paid the $497 Elderly was asking. I felt sure of the one I was playing there, who knows about the Ebay model.
I think Epiphone is shooting themselves in the foot by not advertising the solid back and sides. I assume they do this to leave themselves the option to use laminates, but this is a bad decision, IMO.
They should stay solid and advertise. It is much nicer craftmanship than the MK's I saw, which looked half finished, especially the scrolls and the tops under the fretboard.
I know this may be heresy, but I really think this Epi is the near equal of the Gibsons, as far as tone goes. Less flame, different neck profile, but just as nice in most ways. Ouch, that even hurt my ears! I say check em out, I would like to hear other opinions.

[jlb]

I have always felt that Epiphones and Washburns are the better "entry level" (whatever that means) mandos coming out of Asia.

Seems like everyone's always talking about MKs, MMs, or Kentuckys at that level, but I haven't played any that sounded as nice as the Epiphones and Washburns I've heard in my admittedly limited experience.

I agree with the solid wood thing...I never thought Epi even made a solid wood mando because of their specs on their website...I suppose if it sounds good, who cares? But some people window shop online and that "solid maple" spec helps them make a decision.

[fatt-dad]

I guess (at the risk of repeating myself), you would think that Gibson OAI would see from the success of their Asian counterparts that there is a market/place for solid wood mandolins with good tone. I suspect that they know the "correct" construction, as the Nashville folks can contribute to the desing specification. You would think that they would have the backing (i.e., $$) to get a good Asian factory on board and have a production run. You know the Epiphone Deluxe - a part of the Good, Better, Best lineup (maybe Epiphone Acme).

Oh well. . . .

f-d

[Martin Jonas]

I have the distinct impression that Gibson these days is heavily playing down their link with Epiphone, presumably in order to protect their brand name. You remember that they used to be labelled "Epiphone by Gibson", and then that they had the same or similar model names, just with the different brand (as they still do for the Les Paul). Now, the Epiphones have completely separate marketing and labelling. I also wonder whether this is behind the coyness about the actual spec on their web site: a fear on Gibson's part that if these mandolins sound similarly specced to the Gibsons, potential customers might pick them over the Nashville-made ones.

Martin

[John S]

My first mandolin was an Epi MM-50, bought new in '97. It looked really nice, the playability was okay, but the sound was kinda thin. For about the same price, MK's seem to be quite a bit better in sound and playability. Of course my experience is with the older MM-50, not the new ones being produced in China now.

Also, now that I have an actual Gibson mando (2002 MM), I must respectfully disagree with a previous poster concerning the respective tones of the Epi & Gibson mandos. #I have a devil of a time describing tone with words, so I'll use an analogy that just came to mind. #My Epi MM-50 was Hamburger Helper Chili Macaroni. #My Gibson MM #is homemade, 5-alarm, meaty, flavor-packed chili with lots of tomatoes, onions, beef, red & black beans, cumin, chili powder and cayenne pepper! And 2 cans of beer to boot! #They truly are worlds apart in tone.

[Lee]

What, no jalepenos?

[John S]

Nope, no jalapenos. This one uses diced green chiles instead. Oh, and a touch of garlic and a dash of cinnamon too. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif