Musical Requests

[Howard33]

I've given up trying to find either tabs or regular musical notation for a mandolin for the following songs, so I would simply like to put out a request to others that might know how to play these items. Please consider either creating a .mp3, .wav file or Youtube video for...

Fire and Rain - James Taylor
Something In The Way She Moves - James Taylor
Lucy In The Sky With Diamonds - The Beatles
While My Guitar Gently Weeps - The Beatles (Actually, I love the idea of While My Mandolin Gently Weeps.;) )

There are a few others, but these I would simply like to hear them just so I would know what it would sound like on the mandolin and it "works" or not. Or baring that, if anyone knows if any of these tunes have been converted for mandolin and are for sell, point me at them.

Thanks

[Howard33]

Oh, and its an absolute travesty that there is no notation for Eleanor Rigby for the Mandolin. :disbelief:

[mandolirius]

But you can find the chords for those songs, and the chords will help you figure out the melodies by ear more easily.

[Howard33]

But you can find the chords for those songs, and the chords will help you figure out the melodies by ear more easily.

This only my second month with the mandolin, so I'm not sure my ear or knowledge is up to snuff to ear it, but I guess your right. It's likely the only way I will get to see and hear what it sounds like on the mandolin.

I've actually come across a mandolin ensemble covering Eleanor Rigby, and it's just a cool as I thought it would be.

I've also scoped out Jim Richter on the octave putting his deft touch on While My Guitar Gently Weeps. He's being accompanied by a guitar, but he covers the solo portion and it's pretty much what I hoped it would be. I still would love to hear it from a typical four string though.

There is a video on YouTube of someone working Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds, and I have managed to use the video to work up the very start of it. I'll have to go through that one real slow and I could possibly work it out completely.

I guess what I am most surprised about is that noone has "offically" worked these up either for sharing or selling. I guess these aren't songs one thinks of when they think of mandolin music.
There are certainly more bluegrass, classical and celtic-irish pieces than you can shake a stick at, but things like Blues Mandolin and Rock Mandolin are just too "other" to get much exposure it seems.

[Mandolusional]

I've seen a number of blues mandolin materials. And you can get lessons via webcam from Rich DelGrosso who specializes in it.

I play some Beatles tunes but I learned them by playing from notation. There is a cool version of Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds at http://www.mandotunes.com/homerecordings/ including a link to the Tabledit file. Eleanor Rigby is also in the tunes section, as well as several other Beatles songs at http://www.mandozine.com/music/ (http://www.mandozine.com/music/search_results.php?searchfor=&tuneselectby=C&mandolevel=&category=&songkey=&artist=beatles&transcriber=&sortby=T&sortorder=A&submit=). You can find tons of files there, hope that helps.

[mandocrucian]

YouTube: Niles Hokkanen circa 1991 "Honkytonk Blues/Summertime Blues", solo mandolin (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlGi4mpswd0)


but things like Blues Mandolin and Rock Mandolin are just too "other" to get much exposure it seems.

I used to teach this stuff, but when I'd offer this type material (rock, blues, rhythm) in a workshop setting, and there would be no interest (i.e. sign-ups), despite cheap talk of "when's your next workshop." No doubt there are unauthorized bootleg discs of me teaching this stuff (earlier workshops or from private instruction) in circulation, where I lay a lot of this stuff out - it wouldn't surprise me if there are some 'names' you might recognize who've gotten hold of some of this stuff, but would never admit to it.

For decades I've talked favorably about players like Dave Swarbrick, Ry Cooder, Richard Thompson, Terry Woods, Davey Johnstone, Ray Jackson, and various guitarists who have used the instrument at various times (Martin Carthy, Johnny Winter, Rory Gallagher etc.), but all it's earned me is a dead-or-alive poster in Owensboro, KY. Heresy to promote anything beside Monroe, dawg, Bush etc. (Doesn't seem to matter I'd done materials on Skaggs, Gaudreau, Lawson, Larry Rice along the way). Really funny that some of the same bg people that despised me for mentioning Irish players and bands (Planxty, Andy Irvine.....) back in the 70's and 80's now have "discovered" this stuff and are now into "celtic". (or even "nordic")

I had a guy who did a workshop with me in Chicago back in 2000, and he'd been at the IBMA thing a month before. He told me that even the mention that he would be doing mine would be like putting a bullseye on his back and mark him for shunning and non-stop hassling. (And I've had reports of other stuff along similar lines) Yes, the unforgivable sin of publicly advocating for other music on mandolin other than bluegrass. Just like in Python's Holy Grail - Drown the witch!

And you might think in the time gap between Mandolin World News until Mandolin Magazine, that there was a complete abscence of mando publications. 11 years of Mandocrucian's Digest, (1986-97) but it rarely gets a mention. Too much renegade "heresy" and unapproved genres - (columnists included Mick Moloney, Michael Doucet, Evan Marshall, Radim Zenkl, Judy Hyman, Tommy Comeaux and even, ... John McGann).

Aahhh, I think I'll just go beat up the heavy bag for an hour, and if that isn't enough, practice Deep Purple and Peter Green tunes on my "flute".

NH aka Lord Voldemort (he who's name must not be spoken)

[Mandolusional]

I've had at least two instructors that taught "non-traditional" mandolin in workshops as examples to help expand the class' horizons. So in addition to learning from such knowledgeable musicians as Mr. Hokkanen, it's out there if you know where to look or what questions to ask.

I can't help but think that for genres like rock mandolin to really generate interest it will require more than mandolinists wanting to learn it, it also will require rock bands featuring mandolin players more prevalently. It is a little bit of the, "which came first, the chicken or the egg?" questions I suppose. The mandolin needs enough exposure from the right rock bands... or say... the Jonas Brothers ;). Until then we have forward thinkers and creative minds like Niles who push the envelope and break open new genres for our instrument. One just needs to know where to look.

[Howard33]

That you for the suggestions and thoughts. I wholeheartedly agree that there is not enough "outside the box" thinking when it comes to the mandolin. Even with my relative lack of real experience with the instrument so far, I can see that its more versatile than its given credit for.

I also agree with Mandolusional that for mainstream acceptance it would require notable usage by respected established artists. I can't help but think it might best be exposed to a wider audience in the "unplugged" setting as an alternative to the traditional acoustic guitar. I wonder what the mandolin musical landscape might look like now if Nirvana's beloved unplugged session on MTV would have featured Cobain plugging away on mandolin.....

[Fretbear]

I still love you Niles; they can have my copy of Doyle's (signed) "16 Mandolin Solos" when they pry it out of my cold, dead hands...wait a minute, that's bluegrass....D'Oh!!

[Mike Bunting]

I also agree with Mandolusional that for mainstream acceptance it would require notable usage b
Why does mando music need "mainstream acceptance?, so it can be co-opted by the money machine? Generally, if something is mainstream it is aimed at the lowest common denominator and I am sure as hell not interested in it. I mean, who cares?
And I liked Galactic Crossroads!

[Howard33]

Why does mando music need "mainstream acceptance?, so it can be co-opted by the money machine? Generally, if something is mainstream it is aimed at the lowest common denominator and I am sure as hell not interested in it. I mean, who cares?
And I liked Galactic Crossroads!

By mainstream acceptance I'm not speaking about mandolin pop music. Rather, I am speaking about it being utilized more for musical styles you don't normally associate it with such as the afore mentioned rock music.

Personally, I believe that the mandolin could be used to reinvision many classical rock tunes where you would primarily see a guitar featured, but because of mandolin being seen primarily as a Bluegrass instrument you are no likely to see anyone creating a mandolin music book of songs from The Beatles, The Stones, Led Zeppelin (Other than the ones already featuring a mandolin), Cream, James Taylor, Pink Floyd, etc...

Maybe a song here or there, but certainly not a complete book devoted to mandolin interpretations.

[mandocrucian]

Why does mando music need "mainstream acceptance?, so it can be co-opted by the money machine?

Well, there's "mainstream" and then there's "MAINSTREAM" and there's a vast gulf between the two. While "mandolin" may be equated with few fringe genres (let's be honest) , I can't see how a higher level usage of the instrument in more "popular" forms of music has any effect on the current forms of "mando music".

Here's a list of some "mainstream" musical acts of past & present which have occasionally incorporated a mando into the lineup or the spotlight. A few of them sold huge numbers of records, others, were a moderate success (within their genre), but I can't see how any of it has had very much of effect on the "mando music genres".

Seals & Crofts
Jethro Tull
Little Feat
Rod Stewart
Lindisfarne
Steve Earle
Elton John
Ry Cooder
The Band
Led Zepellin
Rory Gallagher
Horslips
Loggins & Messina
Nitty Gritty Dirt Band

The mando instruments have far too many limitations to ever become as widespread (everywhere) and versatile as: guitars, keyboards, bass, drums, saxophones. Nobody thinks anything about any of those instruments turning up anywhere and the fact that there's a Jeff Beck, Jimmy Page, Robert Cray, Lee Ritenour, Ali Farka Toure or Eddie Van Halen playing "guitar" has any deleterious effects on what a Tony Rice or Robin Kessinger or Michael O'Dhomnail is going to do within their chosen genres.

Fiddle/Violin (and various other bowed instruments - er-hu, lyra, etc.) are prevassive worldwide. Who cares if there a fiddle in Nordic, or Irish, or Chinese, or Greek or even rock music at the fiddle contest in Weiser? It is completely irrelevant to what's going on within that scene.

If mando played in other genres is a threat to "mando music", via improper ideas, it suggest to me that there are mando players who are not universally delighted following a pre-ordained set of restrictions about what and how they should play (to stay politcally correct).

Actually if the mandos were more common (found 5-10% of the time in "mainstream" music, instead of .01%) it would eliminate the "Urkel-threat" of becoming an anchor of ridcule because of public identification of the instrument with a certain act/performer. If the Village People (the ones in the outfits, not the backup musicians) had played a guitar or sax, nobody would have thought anything about it because everybody plays guitar and/or sax. But, if a couple of them had plunked mandolins onstage?.......... The instrument is so unique that now any mando player would have smirking requests for "Macho Man" and be the butt of Village People jokes. (Welcome to the world of "geek act" typecasting!!!) :)) And I would sincerely doubt that there would be the evolution a new BG subgenre - "Pinkgrass" - either!

NH

[John McGann]

Let's hear it for unapproved genres! (http://www.bhtunes.com/)

[Mike Bunting]

By mainstream acceptance I'm not speaking about mandolin pop music. Rather, I am speaking about it being utilized more for musical styles you don't normally associate it with such as the afore mentioned rock music.
Well, that defines mainstream, but my question remains, why do you need the mando to be widely accepted?
BTW the groups you mention are pretty much mainstream to me.

[Howard33]

Well, that defines mainstream, but my question remains, why do you need the mando to be widely accepted?
BTW the groups you mention are pretty much mainstream to me.

Because despite the fact that you consider them mainstream they were and still are great examples of musicianship with some truly great songs that I would certainly love to see transcribed for the mandolin.

It's fine if you want the mandolin to remain a fringe instrument. I personally would like to see it utilized more often beyond the typical. Your responses beg the question though if you enjoy the mandolin more because its an "off the beaten path" style instrument or because of its sound and application?

I'm new to mandolin playing, but I have always enjoyed the sound. My choice to choose it over the guitar was partially due to the fact that most of the friends I have that play are guitar people and I wanted something alittle different. However, I did not feel the mandolin was in some way inferior to the guitar for any musical application. It's mainly now that I have started to delve deeper in what's available for this instrument that I have started to feel that many of the musical restrictions that seem to circle around the instrument are self-imposed ones by many of the musicians that play it.

It's fine if a mandolin to you means only Bluegrass and traditional tunes with a smattering of Blues, but why restrict the instrument like that? Take a listen to any of Richter's covers on Youtube and tell me that mandolin has no place in rock or stepping in for the guitar...

You may want to draw a box around yourself, dig a moat and put up razor wire to keep the mandolin "pure", but for myself I look forward to a day when my talent matches my desire and I can set fire to a musical fortress like yours and play with all my heart whatever comes to mind regardless of genre or tradition.

I would like to state though that I am not a member of this site simply to get into an arguement of what's proper mandolin music or whether mandolin has a place outside of a few styles. We simply have different viewpoints of this instrument. Maybe mine are naive because of my lack of real experience with the mandolin from a musician's standpoint and I will later find it's actually not suitable for every application, but till that day comes I will still keep wondering what Dark Side of the Moon would sound like on the mandolin or how hard a solo version of While My Guitar Gently Weeps might rock in an amplified mandolin's voice.

It's my dream, you don't have to share it....;)

[Howard33]

Let's hear it for unapproved genres! (http://www.bhtunes.com/)

That cover of Eleanor Rigby is seriously cool.:mandosmiley:

[John McGann]

...till that day comes I will still keep wondering what Dark Side of the Moon would sound like on the mandolin or how hard a solo version of While My Guitar Gently Weeps might rock in an amplified mandolin's voice.

It's my dream, you don't have to share it....;)

A good song is a good song, and it's really fun to transfer guitar stuff to mandolin- doesn't always 'work' but when it does, it's fun as hell.

I say go for it, and Brendan Behan says "•••• the begrudgers"! :mandosmiley:

And glad you liked El Rigby!

[mandolirius]

Howard, you might enjoy a 2000 release on CMH called "Pickin' On Zeppelin".

[Mike Bunting]

By my comments, I did not say that I want the mandolin confined to any one style. I have played lots of different stuff and listen to lots of different music. I want to know why you think it should be widely accepted. You say you would like to see transcriptions of certain music. Why not be creative and play the music you like without having it filtered through someone else. You want to play Dark Side of the Moon", cool, figure it out and play it. You don't need anyone else to accept it.

[Mike Bunting]

BTW, give alisten to Tim Ware's "Shelter from the Norm"

[Dave Gumbart]

Okay, so let me get this straight. Niles weighs the same as a duck?

Sorry. Carry on.

[Howard33]

By my comments, I did not say that I want the mandolin confined to any one style. I have played lots of different stuff and listen to lots of different music. I want to know why you think it should be widely accepted. You say you would like to see transcriptions of certain music. Why not be creative and play the music you like without having it filtered through someone else. You want to play Dark Side of the Moon", cool, figure it out and play it. You don't need anyone else to accept it.

The only reason in my mind for the idea of a wide acceptance is so we get books for mandolin that cover music other than the typical, in this case the works of the Beatles and the others I have mentioned.

I guess I should explain that I am just now learning to read music as the first portion of my instruction, so it will be some time before I feel I'll be ready to try and transcribe guitar music over to the mandolin. Nor am I suffiently familiar yet with the broad range of chords for the mandolin to be able to just work out a conversion. In such cases, its almost easier to simply look for and hope you find either tabs for a song or proper musical notation that someone else has already worked up.

What I am finding now though is that alot of the rock music I also like and think would be interesting on a mandolin has not been converted for any number of reasons, whether it's because of a lack of interest or whatever. My comments about more acceptance of the mandolin is meant in the sense that with a greater over all appreciation of the mandolin and willingness to not restrict it to a particular role, there might be a greater willingness by other musicians more advanced than myself who will be interested in producing the material I am looking for.

I hope I explained that well enough to get my meaning across? I'm not exactly looking for Mandolin Rock Hits at #1 on the Billboard Top 100 so much as a Mandolin Primer of Beatles Tunes or Pink Floyd or Zeppelin, etc.....

[mandozilla]

I'd say the the mandolin in rock music is probably considered a novelty to rock musicians as much as, say, a cello is by BG musicians when used in bluegrass music. :))

Mandolin music, bluegrass, rock, blues or what have you, is way more popular now than it was 25 years ago but it still will never reach the popularity of the guitar. :grin:

IMHO that's a good thing...it makes the mandolin community a bit special...it's nice to be special. :redface:

Howard 33, develop your ear...start by picking out the basic melody and play it a lot...over time you will embellish it to the point where you find it pleasing to yourself and others. You'll derive much more satisfaction from this than from just using TAB. :mandosmiley:

[AlanN]

I'd add Hall & Oates (if not already done) as a huge act which brought the mando into the rock/pop world. Pretty much strummed, you could at least hear the thing.

[Jon Hall]

"I guess I should explain that I am just now learning to read music as the first portion of my instruction, so it will be some time before I feel I'll be ready to try and transcribe guitar music over to the mandolin. Nor am I suffiently familiar yet with the broad range of chords for the mandolin to be able to just work out a conversion. In such cases, its almost easier to simply look for and hope you find either tabs for a song or proper musical notation that someone else has already worked up. Quote

I would recommend the free version of the Amazing Slow Downer. It would be a great way for you to learn these melodies for your self. It enables you to slow the song as much as you want without changing the pitch. The free version will play the entire first 2 songs of a cd or about 20 seconds of any audio file. You could burn these songs on a couple of cds and learn the melodies note for note. The chords for the songs are available in many published song books.

[mandocrucian]

I'd say the the mandolin in rock music is probably considered a novelty to rock musicians as much as, say, a cello is by BG musicians when used in bluegrass music.

Absolutely true.

And, unfortunately, Rock players can be just as infuriatingly narrow-minded and tunnel-visioned as any bluegrasser. If you are playing a solidbody electric 4 or 5-string, or mini-guitar conversion, I recommend avoiding the "M- word" if at all possible. Say it's a "Brazilian guitar" or it is in Ry Cooder's (or Keith Richards') 5-string-guitar tuning, or, whatever true-sounding BS you can come up with. If you do utter the "M" word, the next thing you will probably hear will be a suggestion to.... play "Rocky Top", and you now have locked yourself into that mando-steroetype pigeonhole -forever -with those particular players.

And. if you can convinvingly play the thing like a guitarist (Garcia, SRV, Hendrix, etc), don't expect to be welcomed with open arms by guitar players. If you can pull of some of the same stuff they do, but using the "M-word instrument", it is going to rattle some cages and they don't some other instrument tresspassing on their "turf". (and if the mandolin player is female, that whole thing will be amplified even further).

If you can double (or triple) on another instrument(s) (guitar, keys, bass, sax etc., even fiddle) the mando will be better tolerated, because it won't be in use all the time, and when you're not playing it, you are then more in conformity with their "norm". And on the occasional tune you do get to use it...Hey, it's a "novelty"!


...it makes the mandolin community a bit special...it's nice to be special.
Yeah.......With all the "rights and privilages" of a "minority group"! :)) (But if you stay within the "ghetto" of the mando-friendly fringe-genres, you'll deny yourself this 'wonderful' experience!

(Of course, if you own the sound system and are the one getting all the gigs that will trump all other factors..... cau$e money talk$. Green trump$ all other color$. Even a bunch of bluegrassers would probably do a series of hire-on gigs with a trombone player if the money was good.)

NH

"You want the truth?...You can't handle the truth" - Jack Nicholson in A Few Good Men

[jim simpson]

Niles, you are so right.

[Fretbear]

Newman....!!

[mandozilla]

Niles said: "unfortunately, Rock players can be just as infuriatingly narrow-minded and tunnel-visioned as any bluegrasser"

Is there such a thing as Rock & Roll Police? HaHaHa :))


And: "If you can double (or triple) on another instrument(s) (guitar, keys, bass, sax etc., even fiddle) the mando will be better tolerated, because it won't be in use all the time"

Oh so true. Luckily, I'd venture to say that many, if not most, mandolinists probably play instruments other than just mandolin. :grin:


And: [(Of course, if you own the sound system and are the one getting all the gigs that will trump all other factors..... cau$e money talk$. Green trump$ all other color$. Even a bunch of bluegrassers would probably do a series of hire-on gigs with a trombone player if the money was good.)
HaHaHa :))

That's hilarious but true. :))

[Daniel Nestlerode]

I have never moved in the rarefied circles that Niles moves in. But I have found that gigging with a Mandobird in my area has been a good way to get people to notice the band.


I think it helps that the Mandobird looks like a small version of the Gibson Firebird guitar, and in my case it's gold sparkle rather than the more traditional sunburst. The thing looks like a toy to the uninitiated, but it sounds like a serious instrument. It's a pleasant surprise to the audience.

I have not noticed any shunning or condescension from guitar players, but then I'm usually the old guy. They can shun me for that much more easily. ;)

Howard, mandolin is one of the easiest instruments to get your mind around. Give yourself some time. Play any melody that comes into your head. The more you do this, the less you'll need or want tab.

Daniel

[Jim Nollman]

Let's not forget the recording by the Charles River Valley Boys entitled Beatle Country. It shows these guys pushing the envelope 40 years ago. Listen to "I've just seen a Face".

[JeffD]

By mainstream acceptance I'm not speaking about mandolin pop music. Rather, I am speaking about it being utilized more for musical styles you don't normally associate it with such as the afore mentioned rock music.

Personally, I believe that the mandolin could be used to reinvision many classical rock tunes where you would primarily see a guitar featured, but because of mandolin being seen primarily as a Bluegrass instrument you are no likely to see anyone creating a mandolin music book of songs from The Beatles, The Stones, Led Zeppelin (Other than the ones already featuring a mandolin), Cream, James Taylor, Pink Floyd, etc...

Maybe a song here or there, but certainly not a complete book devoted to mandolin interpretations.


I guess I am confused.

I can't see that its the mandolin folks that are in the way of this vision. I don't think there is a mandolin player out there who avoids some of the more "mainstream" genres because of a feeling that the mandolin is not appropriate there.

It ain't us.

Convincing the mandolin community that the mandolin is good on most if not all kinds of music is preaching to the choir.

Its the audience for rock, and pop, and the mainstream genres that have to be convinced. Its corporate music, what ever form that might be in, that needs to be convinced.

I personally like playing the mandolin, and I play a lot of different kinds of stuff. My own tastes have never been toward the rock or pop music, either to play or to listen to. Just my personal taste, and it has nothing to do with my playing the mandolin.

I would say that you or anyone else so interested should pursue those genres vigerously, and professionally if possible, and find out what impedements are real and what are imagined. Heck Paul McCartney had some success with it.

It won't be mandolin players that are in your way.

[Youda]

<snip>
bands (Planxty, Andy Irvine.....) back in the 70's and 80's now have "discovered" this stuff and are now into "celtic". (or even "nordic")



:disbelief: Although I can appreciate BG and the incredible advances in style and technique it created, the intricate and unbelievable mandolin playing!!!, in general I don't like BG! :whistling: (although there's a few artists -- and I differentiate "artists" from "players" -- that I genuinely admire in BG, such as Johnny Staats.)

For many years, I've felt the same exile, the non-BG mandolin player. There were about 10 years when I didn't play much. But, when I first picked up a mando, in the early 90s, you were a big influence on me. Niles, it was your example? ideas? songs? (all and more of those) that put me on a path to danish folk songs, classical, and good old rock n' roll with my mandolin. Although I don't have BM "gems" memorized, I can do a mean Vivaldi or Sebelius, and some rousing scandinavian folk dance music. So, while some may have been throwing their picks at you, you were one of my heros, albeit a quiet admirer, since I didn't like the boos and "burn, witch, burn" mob either! At the end of the day, despite musical genre preferences, I play for myself. As you have discovered, what you've been saying all along will eventually be "discovered." There's more to a mandolin than BG.

Now, I'll sit back and watch the furor over my BG preference. :popcorn:

[GTG]

Sorry to hear (but maybe not that surprised) you've struggled through the electro-pop 80's or grungy 90's, Niles. Am I just imagining it, or is there a lot more tolerance today for doing something a bit different in the music industry? Isn't a novel sound a good thing these days?

[JeffD]

:

For many years, I've felt the same exile, the non-BG mandolin player. :


The only time I feel that is when someone tries to apply BG sensabilities to other kinds of music. Those who do chop chords to Irish music (yikes!), or think every kind of music incorporates improvisation.

But these are folks who have spent a lot of time in BG and have perhaps less experience listening to other stuff. Every genre has them, and thank goodness they are not the majority of players