Schertler & Baggs PADI Questions

[mdlorenz]

I have some questions about what people do w/ their schertlers. I have a baggs & will be getting a schertler. I'd like to be able to run it through the baggs, but it only has a 1/4 input. I have one of those female xlr to male 1/4 adapters...

1. can anyone speak of their experience w/ a Baggs PADI. Specifically going from the XLR > 1/4" & the eq used, & resulting sound.

2. If internally mounted, it's a 1/4" trs endpin jack, right? Would the baggs treat that any differently then a normal 1/4" jack?

3. Has anyone modded their schertler to change out the xlr connector for a trs? Would there be any benefit for this? I was reading in THIS POST (http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1368) where Thile has a jack mounted to his dude tailpiece w/ velcro...

[mdlorenz]

Oh wait... does the Schertler need phantom? You can't do that on trs can u....

[mandroid]

Schertler Dyn M/ C-Dyn is a dynamic microphone like transducer, the output is a balanced signal.
but it is not needing a power source like AKG C411 a condenser type mechanism.

That means the signal goes thru 2 wires, TR, and the ground the the braided shield thru a 3rd S contact.

I did some reading up on this last night, offer again, here.

Baggs input is a TRS jack, but for battery savings, uses the 3rd contact as a switch to turn it on when cord goes in, and off when unplugged. so a TR plug would be what they anticipated , not a balanced signal.

reading the Baggs manual, it's online too, and specifications shows a very high impedance is anticipated such as Piezos supply , in the Mega Ohms, the Schertler is a mis match : spec is 600 ohms at 1KHz.

The internally mounted one is also wired in a balanced configuration , I have a Mix that got one of those in it.

I use a balanced cable with that setup, and plug the other end into a Neutrik converter from 1/4" TRS to XLR
then into the mic channel input [usually my AC-60]

That could also be done with a mic cable , and re solder connector on one end with the TRS 1/4".

Probably with Schertler as the source, best to shelve The Baggs .

Perhaps run the pickup into a Microphone pre amp on the mixer , and if you need EQ tweaking plug another equalizer into the effects loop of that channel.

you don't need the DI as it already is the impedance that the para-DI is converting the 10 mega ohm input into ~o)

[Jim Nollman]

I currently own a Schertler and a Baggs. I bought the Baggs long before I got the Schertler, and used it primarily for its very fine portable parametric EQ. My strange gig of transmitting music underwater was upgraded instantly by the Baggs. I play a Godin A8 into whatever amp is onboard the boat I am using — could be an ampcan, a Fender passport, a Fishman, a jerry-rigged car radio amp — and then into an underwater speaker. The u/w speaker plays havoc with tone. The Baggs solved that very unique problem of making good mandolin tone through an underwater speaker.

I didn't pay close enough attention to the Baggs limited TRS input, when I bought the Schertler with its XLR output. So, of course, I encountered the mismatch described in this thread by others. I'm not much for using cable adaptors in a potentially wet environment, so I haven't ever used the Baggs with the Schertler. Having said that, I remain amazed at how faithfully the Schertler reproduces acoustic sound without any need for extra EQ. So if I am playing one of my acoustic instruments, I bring along the Schertler. If its the Godin I am using, I bring the LR Baggs ParaDI. For normal land-based dance music, I usually play an Eastman 515 with the Schertler attached, and into a Fishman Loudbox Performer amp. I really like this system, and recommend it highly.

[mdlorenz]

underwater... ? what's that about? (hijacking own thread)

[Michael Wolf]

I tried the Baggs with the Schertler. I already owned the Baggs and I have a AER amp. I wanted to get rid of that boxy sound I was getting from the Schertler and thougth the parametric mid control would help. I did to some degree, but not that much. I also found it a bit disappointing that such a expensive piece of equipment does need another relative expensive piece to sound halfway decent.
But that´s only my experience. I now use a DPA mic that sounds great direct into the board or the amp.

[mandroid]

Guess you don't have any whales and dolphins to duet with in Vermont.

Dolphins , mammals , are tropical or sub tropical , whales are all salt sea water mammals .
so that pretty much leaves out Lake Champlain.


back to pickups.
yea microphones do hear the sound of things like air set in motion
pickups try as best they can with amplifying what they are attached to
some better than others.

EQ in a send/return loop works if your band plays thru a mixer
if each have their own amp is another situation .

like Tim says : we are our worst critic and they are all drunk anyway..

[Jim Nollman]

It is absolutely critical to experiment with Schertler placement on each instrument you are using. On my Eastman, the pickup works best in a very small area right in front of the treble side of the bridge. On my Kay jazz instrument, it sounds way too thumpy there, but sounds crisp just behind the bass side of the bridge. In my own experience, once I found each instrument's sweet spot, the Schertler then reproduced the acoustic tone of each instrument better than anything else I've ever tried. It's so good that I rarely apply EQ at the amp stage.

To answer your question: I do musical communication research with dolphins and whales. I used a custom electric guitar for many years in this work, until about 5 years ago, when i got bulldozed and eviscerated by a mandolin. That picture on the left shows an Irish setter talking to a dolphin in very shallow water. That dog is my mentor.

[mdlorenz]

Way cool jim.... Thanks for the insight on the pickup too.

I've got a 6 mo. year old pup & he's a handful interacting w/ anything... I can't even imagine a dolphin... way cool!

[Jim Nollman]

Here's my take on your original question. If you don't already own both a Schertler and a Baggs, I do not recommend that you buy one or the other to complete your set up. Both of these units are professional quality products and both are wonderfully sensitive to tone. To add an XLR-TRS adaptor to this equation just to get them to connect to one another, seems much too messy and opens the distinct possibility of adding noise to two individually expensive, and otherwise noise-free components. XLR and TRS are not precisely substitutes for one another in the same way that phone jacks and min-phone jacks easily substitute for each another.

[mandroid]

I have an impedance adapting plug, XLR thru a transfomer to TR 1/4".. some matching ,
but that is from Low like a dynamic Mic
500 ohm to higher like a guitar amp expects 50,000 ohms
[common use is run like an SM57 thru a tube amp]

the input to the PADI is for 10 million ohms so still a big mis match .. even 50k to 10 meg .

your set of Baggs Radius Pickup and the PADI are, both being Baggs produced, made to work with each other.

Now , assuming the Schertler pickup is your source and you have the installed pickup it's jack is TRS, tip + -ring Minus & sleeve ground.
so the TRS plug goes into that, cord on the other end is now microphone cable.
same as the stick on Dyn M, that is already a balanced/XLR male plug
it plugs into the Microphone preamp in a mixer, or if your amp combo has a Mic channel you are good to go.

no baggs are harmed or used in this other hookup.