Heel crack on a mandola [Archive]

View Full Version : Heel crack on a mandola

Goodin

Nov-29-2008, 12:57pm

Hello - I have a mandola that has a heel crack that goes all the way through from side to side. It is parrallel with the neck and located closer to the back. I guess that's the best way I can describe it. I will try to post pics later. I would like to know how hard of a fix this will be and if it will affect the value of the instrument and also if it is a repair that an amatuer can do.

Another question I have is that the mandola has been tuned for some time with mandolin strings tuned to GDAE. Is this higher tension than mandola strings? Would that have caused the heel block crack? Could cold weather cause heel cracks?

Thanks! Goodin

MikeEdgerton

Nov-29-2008, 1:33pm

We had a thread that discussed the impact of a heel crack (http://www.mandolincafe.net/cgi-bin/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=27;t=52990;hl=heel+and+crac k) on the resale a while back.

As for the ease of repair, you do need to post a picture of that.

sunburst

Nov-29-2008, 2:49pm

Post a picture if you like, but no repair person is going to be able to give you a a dollar amount for the repair, or speculate on ease of repair without seeing the instrument in "person".
I assume the instrument has no strings at this time, but if it's still strung up, get the strings off pronto and get it repaired. The sooner it is repaired the better the chance of a solid, lasting, invisible repair.
If the repair is done well and is invisible or nearly so there may be some loss in market value, but no loss in value as a playable instrument.
Can it be done by an amature? Depends on the amature and it depends on the crack. I wouldn't say without having the instrument in hand and knowing the amature.
The string tension of mandolin tuning probably wouldn't cause the crack, but may have been a contributing factor. The cause was most likely an impact, in or out of the case.

Goodin

Nov-30-2008, 12:21pm

Ok here are some pics. I didn't mention it earlier but this is a 1918 Gibson H1 mandola. I just got it from a guy off of ebay and the crack wasn't mentioned in the listing. I'm trying to send it back but he says it wasn't there when he shipped and we are having a dispute about it. Anyway that's a different story!

So I noticed the crack as soon as I took it out of the box and very slowly strung it to pitch while closely monitoring the crack. I noticed the crack got slightly wider to where I could see light through it then I immediately de-strung.

There is also a 2" long unrepaired hairline crack on the back that the seller says is stable. Other than that it is a very clean instrument, all original, with the original case in fine condition. I paid $2100 for it which I thought was a decent deal. But now I noticed the heel crack and not so sure anymore. Let me know your thoughts.

The link to the other thread was very helpful but it seems like there is very different opinions on how a heel crack affects the value. I am a player, not a collector but I would like to get most of my money back out if it if I sell it down the road.

Thanks! Goodin

Stephen Lind

Nov-30-2008, 12:42pm

i'm no expert by any means but that crack looks pretty fresh to me
it very likely could have happened during shipping with
Fed rEx or OOPS
does the seller have lots of good feedback?

take it to a GOOD repair person
looks like it wouldn't be a really expensive fix and you should have it set up at the same time since it's been masquerading as a mandolin
good luck

Big Joe

Nov-30-2008, 1:58pm

This kind of crack does not usually occur in shipping. These are pretty easy fixes for a shop like ours or several others on the cafe. They are usually tuned ADGC. I would keep string tension off the neck until the cracks are repaired. If I can be of service I would be happy to. You can PM me for other information.

Gail Hester

Nov-30-2008, 2:36pm

It’s a good thing that the crack opens slightly with tension. That makes it an easy fix to open it up and squirt hot hide glue in there then clamp it overnight. Tape the crack edges so that the finish is preserved as much as possible. I prefer hot hide glue for this type of repair since the crack is so clean and needs no fill. I would also be concerned about the reportedly repaired crack and even the condition of the transverse brace and such and would have those checked with an inside inspection.

Goodin

Nov-30-2008, 3:06pm

Thanks for the input guys. Im still trying to figure out what to do. I think I can fix the heel crack myself. But I might instead take it to a luthier to do it and the back crack and a good thorough inspection. Also looking into returning it but having problems with the seller. Can you guys take a look at the pic below and compared with the previous pics, do you notice the crack in this picture?

MikeEdgerton

Nov-30-2008, 4:28pm

.... do you notice the crack in this picture?

Yes I can

moxie

Nov-30-2008, 6:35pm

I started to post, then thought maybe I should go back and make sure I read this right before I stuck my a## out. The sellers insurance, shipper or whatever, perhaps his own pocket should make this instrument what it was advertised to be. Otherwise how can you look in the mirror. I know all about buyer beware but come on this is the Mando cafe and your name is mudd so far. MMc

MikeEdgerton

Nov-30-2008, 6:39pm

Goodin

Nov-30-2008, 6:45pm

Thanks Mike - Just making sure my eyes aren't deceiving me. Can everyone else see it?

Brad Weiss

Nov-30-2008, 6:49pm

Thanks Mike - Just making sure my eyes aren't deceiving me. Can everyone else see it?

Yep...

Goodin

Nov-30-2008, 6:50pm

No I bought it from a guy on ebay who offered a 7 day return policy, and I am also covered under Paypal protection. I am currently in a Paypal dispute over this. I strongly believe as is evident in the listing picture (see above) that the crack was there before he shipped. It was not mentioned in the listing although when pointed out you can see it is there. Had it been mentioned in the listing I would have bid alot less or not at all. The seller did mention the 2" "check" in the back which actually is a full on crack...but I let that slide. Everyone else see the crack in the picture above (white background on the stand)?

Goodin

Nov-30-2008, 6:52pm

Moreover...he is not honoring the return policy and says I caused the crack and won't take back damaged merchandise.

Goodin

Nov-30-2008, 6:58pm

Also ...he is denying that he sees a crack in the listing picture.

MikeEdgerton

Nov-30-2008, 7:29pm

It's pretty clear when you look at that blown up image unless there is another reason for that line.

Bill Snyder

Nov-30-2008, 7:46pm

I think the crack is shown in the picture, but I sure can see how YOU would miss it when looking at the listing.

Philphool

Nov-30-2008, 7:55pm

Here's a zoom-in of your picture.

Looks like a crack to me.

Stephen Lind

Nov-30-2008, 8:00pm

you can clearly see the crack in the picture
seller is either blind or not being honest
no excuses
7 days is 7 days

Goodin

Dec-12-2008, 7:36pm

I just wanted to follow up on this. Paypal judged in my favor and I got my money back after I shipped back the mandola to the seller. Too bad I am out return shipping costs though. If anyone sees this up for sale again be weary of it. Serial #40510, 1918 H-1 Mandola. Has a heel crack, crack in the back and a crack in the top starting at the top of the sound hole going up under the fretboard. All of which have not been repaired. Sellers name is trudy1111.

allenhopkins

Dec-13-2008, 2:56pm

The mandola's right back on eBay and "trudy111" is stating that the line you see in the picture isn't a crack, it's "a heel extension which is visible in pics. This is not a crack, it is an original piece necessary to extend the height of the heel." I've never heard of a "heel extension," but hey, there's lots I haven't heard of.

Here's (http://cgi.ebay.com/Gibson-H-1-Mandola-1918-O-H-S-C_W0QQitemZ300280107869QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_Defau ltDomain_0?hash=item300280107869&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A570%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C2 40%3A1318%7C301%3A0%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50) the link.

Bill Snyder

Dec-13-2008, 5:46pm

Allen, heels are frequently built-up but in order for it to look like it does in the photo I would suspect a glue joint failure.

Goodin

Dec-14-2008, 8:20pm

What??!?!??!?! That is totally bogus! Heel extension? Ya know I thought this guy might have really just been blind but I do now know that he is a complete liar. There is no doubt about it that is a CRACK! He totally made that up about a heel extension. I will see if I can report this...and also make a new thread in the ebay section.

plezed2Bpickin

Dec-16-2008, 2:43pm

I've been looking at this mandola - you never mentioned these other 2 cracks - so there are 3 cracks on this mandola?

jefflester

Dec-16-2008, 3:25pm

I've been looking at this mandola - you never mentioned these other 2 cracks - so there are 3 cracks on this mandola?
Who are you referring to? The poster here (Goodin) is not the one selling the instrument. He bought it and returned it because of these issues.

Goodin

Dec-16-2008, 8:09pm

Correct I am the poster not the seller. When the mandola was in my posession there were three cracks that i noticed that I mentioned above.

There were only 4 bids that only got up to $1100 or so before the listing ended and the reserve was not met.

buddyellis

Dec-16-2008, 8:57pm

Well it might be a heel extension, but it's obviously 'let loose'