First 3 Point Build

[mercenarymandolinist]

Greetings, fellow mandroids
After experimenting with an F4 prototype with an F5 neck, I have decided to pay homage to the F mandolins built in the first decade of the twentieth century for my next build. So far, This much I know:
1. I will be using an F4 12 fret-to-body neck without an adjustable trussrod and attendant coverplate.
2. There will be a single transverse, scalloped brace.
3. The pickguard will be inlayed into the top.
4. The fretboard extension will not be so long as to obstruct the soundhole.
5. A single slab cut piece of birdseye maple will be used for the back.
6. The fretboard will be of the elevated type and the bridge height will be 3/4".
The first order of business will be to construct the form for the rim assembly. The mandolin archive has been a great source of inspiration, as I have always considered the three point design to be proportionally balanced and I really love the voluptuous scrolls found on these instruments.
So to make a long story even longer- Does anyone know of blueprints or scale drawings for these instruments? I want to make sure I have the proportions and radii correct. I've been superimposing what I think is correct on top of F5 blueprints, but even a tracing of an original instrument would be really helpful. I've only had a chance to actually hold a couple of originals in my hands, but at present, I don't know anyone who owns one who would let me inspect it.
Any advice, measurements, drawings, or ridicule would be most appreciated.
Best regards,
Kurt

[laddy jota]

I am building a 3-point now. I got a plan from the Guild of American Lutherie. They call it the F3. Here is a link.

http://www.luth.org/forms/printform.htm

I sort of modified it but I kept the body shape. I may x-brace it. I have not yet decided if I want f-holes or an oval. I wish I could find some good rope binding but I have not found any that I can bend.

[Hans]

I've been known to build a few. I used that F3 print for the forms. Keep in mind that the 3 points are larger than F5's. Here's a pix of one of mine along side of Charlie Derrington's old July 9...

[bryce]

I've been wanting to build a three point as well. How about cases. Will they fit in any F5 cases? David

[Hans]

No they won't fit in an F5 case. Calton can make a case for you if you fill out their custom case form. Another possibility is to get the TKL rectangular case and modify the inside. I did it for my first 3 point.

[danb]

they fit in those golden gate shaped cases that look like a teens F4 case.

The bodies are larger than F4/F5s, the scroll position/size and extra point also can cause you some issues. I think they also fit some of the harptone cases and other standard inexpensive hardshells

[mercenarymandolinist]

Thanks so much for the helpful information. I'll be sending for the plans directly.
After some correspondence with Hans, I've rethought the sugar maple back for tonal reasons. I have a black cherry log almost three feet in diameter in my cordwood pile that would easily yield a piece large enough for a one piece back. Any other ideas? I think birch was used on some early F's, but it is rather boring visually, and seeing what a birch tree does after an ice storm makes it's stability suspect. Walnut, perhaps? I once found a beautiful slab of Honduras mahogany at a pattern shop that made a really nice back that I paid something like ten bucks for. Locally, we have a soft native maple called red or swamp maple. Most regard it as a weed species only suitable for pallets and such. If you cut one down, it will start to rot before it hits the ground.
Regards,
Kurt

[Bill Snyder]

Birch was used on LOTS of early Gibsons and I don't think stability has been any more of problem with them than any of the other tonewoods. As for it being visually boring it would depend entirely on the piece. There is flamed birch. Afterall maple can be about as plain looking as any wood out there, but as we all know it can also be very stunning.

[laddy jota]

Walnut was used on some 3-point Orvilles, too. I have used it several times both slab cut and quarter-sawn. I think slab is prettier. It is easier to work than maple. I look forward to the pictures of your finished product.

[Mattg]

I'm hoping to build a three point in a community college class this spring but I need to get my own plans as this class is mainly for building A5's or A4's. They are letting me deviate because I've built other instruments. Do you think that the plans from the ALG could be modified to exclude the scroll? Anybody have ideas on other sources for 3 point plans?

[mercenarymandolinist]

Bill,
Your point is well taken. Before I put steel to wood, I want to get this whole project sorted out in my head. I am strongly leaning toward using black cherry for these reasons:
1.It carves and finishes easily.
2. Here in the Berkshire hills, I have access to an abundant supply of high quality stock.
3. It is a renewable resource. All the old growth timber is long gone in this region, and cherry regenerates quickly.
4. I think that an instrument with spruce top and cherry back in natural finish would be visually stunning.
That said, these questions arise:
1. Is black cherry a suitable tonewood for a back plate?
2. Does it have the strength and stability for building a neck? How about a laminated neck with an ebony center ply, maybe a carbon fibre trussrod?
3. How does it steam bend? We're looking at some rather tight curves here. The Shakers made some nice oval boxes from it.
If anyone has used cherry, or knows of a reason NOT to use it , I'd like to hear from you.
Once again, much appreciation to all who are willing to share their experience with a hacker like me. I am certainly not averse to experimentation, but my intent isn't to build a piece of furniture to hang on the wall. Forgive me, Orville.
Best to all,
Kurt

[Pheasant Plucker]

I built an octave out of western red cedar and cherry. It was my first build, scratch, no plans-no clue... I bent the cherry with a piece of pipe and a blow torch, dipping the wood in a rain puddle outside my shop. It bent pretty easily as far as I could tell although it probably would have done better if I'd simmered it for ten minutes. Hope yours turns out better than mine! ( It's playable, sounds o.k., but looks fairly primitive) Good luck.

[Yonkle]

Have fun Kurt: Those 3 point mandolins are awesome looking I always thought, so I too built one last year. It had a F5 scale with a F4 width for the neck and fretboard was flat. Customer claimed it was hard on his hand. So later I took off the fretboard, and went to a radius F5 fretboard and slimmed the neck down a bit. After that it played and felt much much better.
I think I just had too wide a fretboard on it. After the surgury it played great and it sound a little better too. They sure are pretty. When I get my shop rebuilt, (it burned down this summer along with my home) I plan on making myself a F5 to start and when I have time another F2 Hybrid. They are cool instruments. Hans makes some real beautys! Jd
Heres the backside, this was #8. Lucky I sent it back when I did, only a few weeks later the fire took down everything. I had 3 mandolins in the shop, two were finished, all 3 gone. I can't wait to get back in my new home and new shop and get started again. Should be in the house by Jan 15th, but I still have to buy all new tools for the shop, which will take some time. I think I will be up and going by March. We have to get the house in order first, then the shop. The shop will also be done by the 15th, but tools and set up will take a bit of time. Good Luck, lets see some pics when You are done. Jd

[buddyellis]

Should be in the house by Jan 15th, but I still have to buy all new tools for the shop, which will take some time. I think I will be up and going by March. We have to get the house in order first, then the shop. The shop will also be done by the 15th, but tools and set up will take a bit of time. Good Luck, lets see some pics when You are done. Jd

No to hijack the thread, but JD, once you get things a bit more settled with the new house you should post a 'wish list' somewhere. I still have a #5 stanley or two laying around but figured it'd be better to wait till you get settled down a bit before things start getting sent.