Bill Monroe Song Keys

[John Malayter]

In my never ending attempt to "become" a mandolin player I decided to organize the key's Big M did his songs in. I used the following cd's:

Anthology
The Music Of Bill Monroe (6 disc set)
16 Jems
The Definitive Collection

My idea is to collect the "licks and runs" for each of these key's that he used in his playing ( A, B, C, D, E, F, G, Gm, Em, Am, etc.) and attempt to put them to memory. However I made a discovery, the vast majority of the songs from these albums were recorded in the key of C.

I had no idea and it still bogles my mind. I know that Doc Watson used the "C" position a lot and most of his instrumentals were out of that position either capoed or not but I didn't know Bill liked that key also. I always assumed most of Bills songs were written and played in the typical bluegrass key's of G, A, B, Bb and while there were many songs I have in those keys they pale in comparison to the C songs.

If anyone's interested i'll post the song list and key's this evening.

JJM

[Red Henry]

...the vast majority of the songs from these albums were recorded in the key of C.

I had no idea and it still bogles my mind. I know that Doc Watson used the "C" position a lot and most of his instrumentals were out of that position either capoed or not but I didn't know Bill liked that key also. I always assumed most of Bills songs were written and played in the typical bluegrass key's of G, A, B, Bb and while there were many songs I have in those keys they pale in comparison to the C songs.

JJM

I think that C was a largely-ignored mandolin key until Bill got hold of it. C is indeed a great key on the mandolin, and Bill really showed it off not only with his songs (he sang Blue Moon of Ky in C quite a bit, with a spectacular mandolin break), but also with his instrumentals such as Rawhide, Frog on a Lily Pad, and several others.

Red

[Alex Orr]

If anyone's interested i'll post the song list and key's this evening.
JJM
I'm interested. I've been meaning to sit down for a long afternoon and try to compile a good list of songs and keys for a number of albums and tunes. I was actually wondering this morning if there was already a site set up where you could look up songs and see what key they've been performed in on any number of albums. It would be a convenient way to line up some stuff to play along with, especially if organized into iPod playlists.

FWIW, Norman Blake plays a ton of stuff out of the C position, although most of it is capoed up, frequently to the Key of D.

[John Malayter]

The ipod thing was the driving force in this adventure. I like to practice in front of the Mac but i'm usually forced to do this at night when everyones asleep. But I usually end up waking someone up, so I'm getting a mp3 player today and that will give me the mobility to practice anywhere I want .....even the bathroom could become a studio..........

Anyway, if I get motivated again I'll go through the solo's/songs and tab them out. This way i'll have a paper file as well as electronic file to learn by.

Not sure if it'll work but its worth a try. :mandosmiley:

[Red Henry]

That's a good project, but always be aware that Bill often changed the keys in which he sang particular songs, so the recorded examples may or may not represent what he usually played afterwards. For example, I have seen him do "Blue Moon of Kentucky" not only in C, but also in B and B-flat. (I've forgotten whether his original 1940s recording was in A. It sounds like it now in my head.)
On his recording of "Let the Light Shine Down on Me", if I remember right the song is recorded in D, but Bill's mandolin work (including a near-slip) shows that he was used to playing it in C -- so he may have changed the key right there in the studio. Bill was always pitching his songs to the keys in which he could sing them the best that day.

Red

[grassrootphilosopher]

The Original Blue Moon of Kentucky was indeed in A.

Mr. Bill used a lot many different keys like F, C and such, and it allways sounded great. I think it takes a while to find out that you ought to play the tune in the key that fits your singing voice and work your instrumental parts around that.

Anyhow, I´m interested in this project and I await further report.

[ralph johansson]

The Original Blue Moon of Kentucky was indeed in A.




Anyhow, I´m interested in this project and I await further report.

Bb.

[Spruce]

"I think that C was a largely-ignored mandolin key until Bill got hold of it."

Don't forget that tape manipulation was a common practice back then...

If a song sounded better with more pep in the key of C, even though it was originally recorded in B, then that's what they did--speed up the master.

I have a vague memory of the recordists of the day talking about doing this with Monroe recordings, but I'll be damn if I can remember the source...

[evanreilly]

I am not sure if 'tape manipulation' covers all the variables of older analog recording techniques, but it certainly covers different recording speeds on different machines, tape wobble and flutter, etc. One of my questions about a recording blip is what happened in the recording of 'The First Whippoorwill'; I hear a brief wobble in it.

[John McGann]

John, there's an easy way to catalog mandolin based ideas- 1st position (using open strings) and closed (no open strings). Many/most Monroe solos are closed position, which means they transfer instantly to other keys by moving the "shapes" the required number of frets. You'll find the chop chord position being a very strong 'ground zero' from which many of his melodic ideas evolve. Most melodies have a very high percentage of chord tones, so chord shapes contain many 'go-to' notes.

Forgive me for jumping in, but if you were my student, I'd suggest picking ONE Monroe solo that you really like, and learning it. Really learning it, memorized, so you can play along with it (starting at a slowed down speed) and really match the pick strokes and attacks, tone, and vibe as much as possible.

I'd suggest NO TAB or NOTATION- learn it by ear, direct to fingers and memory, one phrase at a time- you don't need a shelf full of paper, you are trying to learn to PLAY the instrument; why not develop your musical memory through your ears rather than eyes at the same time? :) The difference between a book collector and player is often that the player has internalized what's in the books*. Notation/tab is a wonderful thing, but not always the 'hotline' to music the way the ear is.

Solos and tunes learned this way become a part of your musical DNA.

When you get the first sounding and feeling good, the natural way to "catalog" the ideas is to take the solo into some different keys and positions (all 12 keys if you want to be thorough)...then you'd find the 2nd one easier to learn, and the 12th would be a good deal easier to learn- in other words, the learning curve is steepest in the beginning, but when you tough it out through that, you break through a barrier that makes the subsequent solos a little (and eventually a lot) easier.

* I have lots of books I haven't internalized either...

[Bruce Evans]

* I have lots of books I haven't internalized either...

You have no idea how good this confession makes me feel, John. Tell me - is your stack of such books taller than you are? Please say "Yes." :redface:

[John McGann]

You have no idea how good this confession makes me feel, John. Tell me - is your stack of such books taller than you are? Please say "Yes." :redface:

If you include orchestral scores and stuff, it's got 25 feet on me or so! :))

[CES]

The difference between a book collector and player is often that the player has internalized what's in the books*. Notation/tab is a wonderful thing, but not always the 'hotline' to music the way the ear is.



Sir, I made this epiphany some time ago--I'm a book collector who really wants to be a musician--but seeing it in print really brought it home. I recently got an MP3 player and have been using it a lot for practice lately...working out an arrangement for the song Wagon Wheel by Old Crow for a friend and I to play (I have lots of banjo and guitar books, too, and structurally it's a simple song) was the first time I really just took what I heard and played it (with some chord/key guidance). It's one of the songs I can play/sing from memory without really thinking about it (not as well as those guys, of course). Anyway, I'm hoping acting on this epiphany will help me improve; hearing the same advice from you reinforces the idea immensely!!

[ralph johansson]

"I think that C was a largely-ignored mandolin key until Bill got hold of it."

Don't forget that tape manipulation was a common practice back then...

If a song sounded better with more pep in the key of C, even though it was originally recorded in B, then that's what they did--speed up the master.

I have a vague memory of the recordists of the day talking about doing this with Monroe recordings, but I'll be damn if I can remember the source...


you can often tell the key by his pet phrases, in 1st position. key of C: pickup phrase on g course, d#-e on top two courses.

(wonder if community church is really in F#. the guitar sounds like e forms
capoed up, though)